mdiddy

Hey All, I have a mei that I'm struggling with and wanted to see if anyone could help fill in the blanks or correct what I have so far. Here is what I have: "__ Shu ju Kawa __ Tane(?) __". It is katana in Gunto mounts and has the dull part of the blade at the hamachi so Showa period I think. Can't seem to match it up at Dr. Stein's site and my books haven't turned up anything. Any ideas? Thanks for all help and also I may sell/trade this sword some time in the future.

The 2nd Oshigata from Jacques has a lot of similarity to your katana and the Robertshaw example. The 1st Oshigata I'm not sure but could be the same as the katana mei or the 1st wak? I'm not sure...

Hey Mike, Its tough to tell from the pictures but is the yokote intact? It does not look so. If not I might shy away from putting any add'l $$ into the blade and just keep it oiled and preserved as is. If the yokote is intact and you want to show it off to your non-nihonto friends then maybe its worth putting a few hundred in if you could find an amateur polisher. I think I'd leave it as is. My $.02. Hope that helps! Matt

Mike, Can you post pictures of the blade? Maybe one of the kissaki and another 4-6in length of the blade, highlighting any rust? Would be nice to see what you are dealing with. If the blade is not the best workmanship but has hada/hamon that can be brought out as well as not having major rust or damage maybe you can find a polisher who charges in the $50/in range for a more modest restoration. Expect months not weeks to have it returned. Matt

Mark, The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords by Kokan Nagayama is a title you should look into. You can find it for ~$50 and readily available at Amazon so it is not near as expensive compared to other books on Nihonto nor is it as hard to get ahold of. Moreover, it is just the fraction of a cost of a potential mistake down the road. It will provide a wealth of background on how to take your new purchase, assess all its distinct properties, and narrow down time period, school, maybe even specific smith. It helps a lot to have a blade in full polish but you would be remiss to not spend a couple of weeks with this book and now you have a hands on example as a study aid as you go. Congrats on the purchase and best of luck. Matt

Hey, To answer your questions from the README.txt: 1. Not sure what the translation is but doesn't matter 2. You have a cheap copy; the hamon is etched, no/poor hada, crude workmanship, bad fittings 3. Put it in a closet and buy some books that will allow you to identify these before purchasing in the future Best of luck! Matt

Here's a pretty good comparison from Moses Becerra's website: http://www.nihontoantiques.com/restorat ... tiques.htm If you keep exploring his polishing pages there is even more material and pictures of before/after. Hope that helps! Matt

The seller referenced this thread specifically in the Question/Answers at the bottom of the auction on Jan 16 and NMB in general on Jan 14. Does NMB know that it is being referenced on Ebay in auctions to promote legitimacy?

Agreed - I appreciate Mike's clarification and do not want to offend or deter a new collector's affair with the sword, just raise a flag and ask a question. No hard feelings.

1. This is advertising/hyping whether intentional or not. Wording like 'marvelous' and sales projections like 'as high as $4500' are hype. I am not saying that it is by design, but an add'l 30 people or so are now checking out the auction. As a seller, advertising is a great tool, but if you are a buyer in the market then I would expect that the more people bidding = less likely you are to win so why this post and continued follow-up after receiving objective opinions from collectors uninterested in Showato/Gunto. 2. I am skeptical. I am well within my rights of being so and have stuck to the facts and my experience with ebay to raise a flag to the broader group. It doesn't mean I am right or that anyone will believe me, but its my experience and I can share it. If your intentions are above board then you have nothing to worry about and you are in the clear. Place your bid and if you win come back and show it off. 3. 'Chris' is what the seller signed to the questions that were at the bottom of the auction.

I don't post often and usually just for translation help, but I have read almost every thread on this board since discovering the site and as a collector of both Gunto and Nihonto, I have a few thoughts on this subject: 1. I don't find this sword particularly rare or special. Its only separating factor is a stamp on the tang which indicates origination, but does not highlight any increased functional difference between other oil-quenched, mass-produced Gunto. This would be like saying my Corvette has an extra decal of flames running down the side while yours doesn't and pricing 3x higher based on that, only for aesthetic difference. The 3x price increase could maybe be justified if your Corvette had a different engine, a different shape, etc, but that is not the case. In my mind this is similar to the price difference for the .45 luger in that there are only 2 or 3 of them but there is also the functional difference of the .45 caliber justifying the rarity and price increase (1000x?). That is quite a departure from other lugers, even with segmentation by markings indicating maker, year, unit but with the same basic design. Moreover, while this may be 1 of 3 extant examples with the stamp, every Nihonto is functionally unique (working of the steel, pattern of martensite in the hamon, shaping, etc) that make each one 1 of 1 extant examples. 2. I admire the sales pitch and aim to convince in this thread. If I am trying to sell this sword on ebay, then what better way to get free advertising than to come here and start a ruckus. Nevermind posting in the For Sale section, better to ask a question and post pics. I've seen this from a few participants on this board before their items go up on ebay. They ask for an opinion but really it functions as free advertising and even better, advertising where you know there will be involvement from others to promote the item. This thread has ~500 hits. Look at the number of hits on a thread in the For Sale section for any given item. Moreover (this is the good stuff), I sell swords on ebay and it is a game. Multiple times I have had buyers with 1-5 feedback purchase a sword at a very high price but never pay. Again, multiple times this occurs and only with Gunto, not Nihonto. To me this is other sellers working together to impede their competition while also driving the price for these items up tremendously (as compared to Nihonto). The price of Gunto (~600) and oil-quenched showato (~1000-1500) being far above an out of shape shin-shinto (~800). Also, if you look at the bidding histories for these swords you can see patterns of the price being bumped up when no one is bidding - again perhaps by a network of sellers working together and dominating the market. So when I see this sword at $3000-4500, I do not want to say anyone is doing anything shady, but I am extremely skeptical of what is going on behind the scenes. My $.02. 3. Isn't there a requirement to post your name after a thread? I don't mean to call out specifically and even though 'MikesGuns' could be obvious, but I don't remember seeing another posting by him before. The ebay seller is 'MacsMilitary' fwiw and his name is Chris. I don't want to hurt any feelings here and think my thoughts are objective. Just highlighting some concerns though. Thanks and hope I too can successfully sell items to whoever buys this sword because they are an ideal customer. Matt

I think your assessment about the tsuka-ito re-wrap is correct. More important though, from what I see of the blade it looks like the tip was broke off and reground at some point. I suspect Chinese copiers would not go to that degree to copy a blade. It's hard to completely see all of the hamon, but it looks thick and etched. Given its a late war blade (date) and if it has that type of hamon (thick suguha, no nioi guchi, clearly etched) then it would most likely be machine made. I have handled many of these late war blades with a clearly etched hamon that were also signed with two characters that looked quickly chiseled. My point is that signature is never a guarantee (neither is hamon when determining tamahagane vs. mill steel). Analyze the hamon closely when the blade gets in for more clues. Regardless, the reground tip is no good but if you got this for a good price (~$300?) then I wouldn't feel too bad about it.

Great- thanks! I appreciate the help.

Thanks to both of you for your fast follow-up. What references may have more info on either of these "Mitsunaga's"? Also, could I also ask what your opinion is of the 1st two Kanji? I'm finding them confusing as well. Would they be 'Fujiwara'? Here are some add'l pics fwiw... Again - many thanks.

I have request for translation help. Below is the mei from a Kai Gunto katana. It is obviously Showa period and I translate the mei as 'Fujiwara Mitsunaga Saku'. However, I can not seem to find a smith by that name from the period. The workmanship of the kanji looks very similar to that of Kanenaga when comparing to Stein's webpage (http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/kanenag2.jpg; http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/kanenag3.jpg) and Slough (pg. 51) - particularly the 'Fuji', 'Wara', and 'Naga'. It is the 'Mitsu' that is throwing me off. I don't understand its usage here, if 'Mitsu' is what the 3rd character is. Nagasa = 25.5 in, hamon = thick Suguha, chu-kissaki, maybe o-kissaki (it's pretty large but not monstrous). I can post more pics. Any help in translating this mei would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Matt

Grey and Brian, Thanks for your added insight and pointing to more resources to use in understanding these. Much appreciation. Matt

Hello - here is a tsuba that I am struggling to figure out period/style of. Rounded square, sukashi, some metal besides iron showing through. 73mm by 68mm, 5mm thick. Any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hey Richard, Here are a couple of extra pics. I at least have not cleaned it but am not absolutely sure if it wasn't cleaned sometime in the past. The stain around the Seppa-dai seems healthily worn in. That said, in the light the tsuba is more dark grey than black and am thinking I jumped the gun suggesting it is Kyo. Let me know what you think and thanks for the help.

I have here what I believe to be a Kyo Sukashi tsuba. It's maru gata, made of iron, 68mm x 65mm and ~4mm thick. I am wondering if anyone can recommend the best way to date this piece. It is mumei but I'm wondering if this is recognizable work by and specific or specific group of smiths that could pinpoint to a 50-year timeframe. Any insight anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Koichi san, John, and Ford - thanks for the added context. I appreciate the translation and distinction of two kanji rather than three. The links to John's page are also very insightful. John - for this instance, why would a Japanese interpretation of the kanji perhaps apply instead of Chinese and what clues in this case could one use to help discern? Thanks again!!

Hello, This tsuba was on a Muromachi wak. I'm trying to translate the kanji as well as determine the era this tsuba may have been from. I've attached some pictures of the tsuba and a close-up of the kanji on it. I get 'Yoshikawa' maybe? Not sure about the 1st or 3rd, but pretty sure the 2nd is 'kawa'. This item is not for sell, I'm just trying to learn more about it. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Jos, Thanks for your help! That solves for some of my confusion and I can begin digging and researching more now. Did any of your books have a picture of the oshigata? Thanks! Matt

To start, I want to state that I may try and sell this katana. I'm not a regular trader, but I do sell swords from time to time. The katana in question confuses me. I read the mei as "Mino (no) Kuni ju Yasu Kuni Saku" (see attachment) which would suggest that Yasukuni from Mino made the blade. Easy enough, but here are additional facts I'm trying to reconcile: 1. When purchased, the blade was in Shin Gunto mountings and the rusting on the tang seemed in order with Showa period (i.e. not heavy, no very dark iron, etc). 2. I do not know of any other mei's from Showa period starting "Yasu" save those of the Yasukuni shrine where one smith was known to sign "Yasukuni". 3. Comparing to a "Yasukuni" mei from the site http://www.jp-sword.com/files/yasukuni/yasukunito.html (page devoted to NTK) yields differently shaped kanji and location on the tang, however, the yasurimei near the mune-machi look identical (may not be evident in my pics). 4. The hamon on the katana looks suguha with ashi to me. 5. Yasukuni shrine is ~150mi from Gifu (modern-day Mino) All of this adds (or rather doesn't add) up in my mind to probable gimei. But gimei of WWII smithing during the same time period the smithing was going on? Were the smiths at Yasukuni already recognized for their talent during the time period? I don't get it. Is there an older Yasukuni from maybe Shinshinto? Have I incorrectly translated the kanji? Please help. All insight is greatly appreciated.

I am struggling with the 2nd character on this mei. The sword is in Gunto mounts, probably seki, but there are no stamps or other marks on the tang besides these three kanji. I've got the 1st and 3rd as 'Kane' and 'Saku' respectively, but can't seem to pinpoint the 3rd. I can't seem to find a similar example either from Slough or Stein's Oshigata page either. Maybe 'Tane' or 'Shige'? I dunno. Attached pics of the blade/mounts too. Thanks for all help!

One more pic of kissaki