Kevin

There has, at one time or another, been a bit of discussion on how to ship swords. I recall UPS being mentioned, and both pros and cons given. Well, I’ve been using UPS to deliver swords for the last year. A year ago I went through their Terms and Conditions with a fine tooth comb before doing so, including their ‘prohibited items’ list. After all, you don't want to use a courier who doesn't want to carry your stuff. However, there were no problems – the UK site didn’t mention anything about swords in any way, shape or form. Swords subsequently went off to various countries with the relevant paperwork for Customs describing the contents accurately and giving tariff numbers – no problems. I even had a lengthy chat on one occasion with their Customs department concerning the paperwork for one export shipment – absolutely no problems. The other day, according to tracking, UPS decided to return a shipment because it contained a 'prohibited item'. Cue irritation and puzzlement, plus apologies to the customer and a bit of running round to find alternate methods of transport. My partner and I also went though UPS’ Terms and Conditions again, plus their prohibited items list, to see if anything had changed. Still no mention of swords, or of anything that could be taken to mean swords. There was a vague mention of items that could cause injury, but that could be taken to mean almost anything; baseball bat, food blender, chainsaw, sink plunger. It was not an informative clause. A UPS representative rang up asking for me. I wasn’t in, so my partner answered. UPS representative suddenly found they’d got someone highly irritated on the line. However, Cal took the number, passed it to me, and I phoned back. I was extremely polite, but probably cold enough to be freezing the telephone wires. The conversation started off with the representative telling me that the parcel had been returned because I had shipped a prohibited item. They tried their best to sound officious, they really did, but it was to no avail. I pointed out that I had been through their Terms and Conditions, and their prohibited items list, in minute detail, and nowhere was there anything applicable to swords that I could find. “But we don’t ship swords!” they said. I pointed out that they had been shipping my swords for the last year, complete with accurate Customs documentation – indeed, I’d had a chat with one woman in the Customs department over a shipment to Japan. In fact only the other day they’d delivered one to Italy, which means extensive Customs work. I pointed out that this meant that not only had they been shipping swords, but they had been knowingly shipping swords. “But they’re prohibited items!” the representative wailed. “Show me where in your Terms and Conditions, or in your prohibited items list, it says that swords are prohibited items.” “Umm! Err!” “Does that mean that you can’t tell me where it says that swords are prohibited items?” “Err . . .” “Not even a clause that I might reasonably take as applying to swords?” “Err!” “Thought so.” “But we don’t ship swords!” they bleated. “Well perhaps you should tell people, because you’ve been quite happily shipping swords for the last year, and you’ve known that they were swords.” By this point the representative was getting somewhat desperate, and wriggling as uncomfortably as a pinned butterfly. “Don’t you have anything else we can ship, other than swords?” “No. The name of the business might give it away – Ryujin Swords.” “Oh.” “It is plastered over all the waybills and Customs documents that you’ve been getting, you know, the ones that told you that there were swords in the packages. The business name is also on every parcel.” “Oh. But swords are prohibited items!” they bleated, wriggling desperately. “Well, you’ve already agreed that you are unable to tell me where it says that swords are prohibited items.” “Err! Sorry.” “In any case, I’ve already shortlisted 3-4 other courier firms to take over from you, and they are happy to take my business.” “Oh. So there isn’t anything we can do for you?” “No.” “Oh. Sorry.” By now the representative sounded as if they were looking for somewhere to hide; they may also have been suffering from frostbite. End of conversation – but not the end of the saga. Along comes the UPS deliveryman with the returned parcel. My partner opens the door, already unimpressed by the company. The deliveryman gives her the parcel, opens his mouth and says: “Who’s been a naughty girl then?” She’s in her 30s, attractive, extremely intelligent, has a degree and a Masters, runs her own business, helps with mine, runs the smallholding, moderates a forum and deals with our daughter. A formidably intelligent and very competent woman. “Who’s been a naughty girl then?” It was the last straw as far as she was concerned. They probably heard the bang in the next village. The deliveryman departed at high speed with his tail between his legs. The only thing that surprised me was that she didn’t chase him up the road with the yari I gave her, shouting “Come here, let me geld you!” :D I suspect, however, that the deliveryman may have felt that she might. :D Meantime I am sorting out things with other courier firms and I’ll let you know how it goes. Kevin

Hmm! Very odd! The tsuka most closely resembles that of a late 19th century-early 20th century kyo-gunto. However, you've got this interesting bit of having a cherry blossom hiding the mekugi and the whole lot rather reminiscent of tachi mounts, sort of. Which makes sort of makes sense, since the sword is slung cutting edge down, like a tachi. It is a bit of a hybrid. Not sure that it has to be official mounts, and it doesn't match any official mounts of the Showa period with which I'm familiar - someone may however prove me wrong. OTOH, they could have asked for mounts that they were happy with. If they'd had been used to a kyo-gunto tsuka, maybe that's what they felt happy with. As someone suggested, a retired naval officer? Then again, some people weren't happy with the tsuka on the kyo-gunto because it was difficult to deliver a two-handed blow. This would never have been a regulation mount - but it might have been someone's private idea on how to perfect a kyo-gunto mount - which gets back to the previous para. Which might then make it very early Showa - but that (and everything else) is complete speculation. Kevin

Dear god! And half of those bits seem to have been butchered with a grinder, presumably before being turned into confetti. Kevin

BTW, someone remarked in a post that I can't find that some dealers cared more about £s than customers. Possibly true of some - though if you're working as a dealer, you have to keep an eye on the £s, or else you'll go out of business. OTOH, it is very bad business sense to have upset customers, or to get a bad rep through ripping folks off. Very short-sighted - dumb in fact. Personally, I'm doing this because I love swords. I also want out from my job with the Civil Service, which would allow me to spend a lot more time with my family (anyone like 6 hours commuting every day?). If you're going to have to earn a living, you might as well do it by doing something you love. :-) As for customers and suppliers - from my POV it's best to conduct things in a friendly and helpful manner. Kyle, for example, got directed here because a) I was short of time over Christmas to help him and b) there's folks here who are more knowledgeable than I. In the course of doing business in a friendly and helpful manner, folks may even become friends. I have no objections to spending a day chatting to people with whom I get on, or even going the extra mile if they are after something. :-) In fact some people, including some of my suppliers, recently sent me emails hoping my baby daughter and partner would soon get better - they've been ill over Christmas, my partner especially so. I was rather touched by that. Now if you can make a living doing that, you're lucky. OTOH, upset folks and you'd have to spend several days dealing with irate folks and have no repeat business. As I said, dumb. Cock-ups do happen, but it is always best to admit it to someone before they come screaming in your direction. However, that's just being an adult. It is all pretty simple, leastways from my POV. It just puzzles me that some sellers haven't got the idea yet. :? Is it that complex? Doing something you love, doing it as well as you can, and having an enjoyable time with the people you meet in the course of doing so? And have them going away feeling that they've got a good exchange for their hard-earned cash? It's not a difficult concept I'd have thought, and doing the opposite is so much hard work and stress. I mean, which way would you prefer to run a business? :? Mind you, some customers don't seem to have got the idea either. There are some needlessly impolite folks out there. Fortunately so far few have come in my direction - mostly people have been a pleasure to deal with. Ebayers however can be a slightly different kettle of fish - some really do expect to pick up a papered sword in fresh polish for the price of a gunto in dodgy condition. I remember one guy, ages ago, being rather rude about me not accepting his 'Best Offer' of £300 for a papered, polished 17th century nihonto in damn near flawless condition. "Cash is king, man!" he wrote, "you'll have to drop the price sooner or later if you want to sell it." I didn't, he didn't get the sword, and somebody else paid what I asked. Personally I thought his offer derisory to the point of being insulting. Some Ebayers really do expect to pick up things dirt cheap. Their expectations thus slant the market on Ebay towards the price range they expect, as well as providing the conditions for rip-off merchants to exploit. If folks expect to get something for nothing, then other people will appear to exploit that expectation. Me, I'd be very wary of a something-for-nothing item, but some folks on Ebay would pile in there. The upshot tends to be that some of the better dealers either don't sell on Ebay, don't sell their best on Ebay, or (in a few cases) have withdrawn from Ebay altogether. Then again, there are folks who apparently think that all dealers (especially Ebay dealers) are the font of all evil. Oh well. :? The truth, as usual, is rather more complex and less black and white. Can't say that I've dealt with either Bill Tagg or Don Bayney yet, though I've heard of both of them from mutual friends. By a few historical accidents I've got more links abroad. However, sooner or later you get to hear about, then meet, most folks in this business. It's amazing how many people do know each other. :-) However, it is a small field. Peter Farrar, OTOH, was a delight to deal with when he was last round here. :D Anyway, just a view from the other side of the fence. :-) I'm not entirely sure how on-topic it is though. Kevin

Hi Kyle, glad you got here. :-) The UK law as it stands outlaws all curved single-edged blades over 50 cm unless they are antiques, made in Japan prior to 1953, made in Japan by traditional methods after 1953, are for sporting purposes (martial arts), educational purposes, or re-enactment. The intended purpose was to outlaw cheap stainless steel wallhangers that were, very rarely (compared to guns and knives, especially Stanley knives and carving knives) being used as weapons. The rather predictable upshot was that the manufacturers of these blades promptly made them straight for the UK market (see, for example, Ebay UK), thus evading the law. In addition the popularity of cheap Japanese-style blades less than 50 cm long has gone up. They're not covered by the law and are easier to hide under a coat. :? In short, the law is an ass - and already unworkable - but we have to live with it. At present it appears, from reports from a wide number of people, that Customs are stopping anything that says 'sword', whether it is over 50 cm or not. They then send you a standard letter saying that they've detained it. You then email or mail them reasons why it shouldn't be detained. All things being equal, and your evidence being sufficient, they'll release the sword. Normally I don't have a huge amount of trouble (by now they're aware of me and may go "Oh God, it's him again when tehy see the address :-)), though it may take time - but then Customs have got themselves in a bind over this and there's a backlog. I gather that they're not happy with the situation either, but they don't want to accidentally let a banned sword through and get the resulting flak. It's a no-win situation from their POV, but they have their job to do. Marking it as antique and using the relevant harmonised tariff codes doesn't mean that it won't get stopped. I recently had to send them a letter pointing out that the reason why the sword was exempt was given on the declaration, as quoted by them - it was an antique. OTOH, one person sent me a sword marked as 'toy' on the Customs declaration, and it sailed straight through. Very silly, and not recommended. I nearly had a fit when I saw it, cos Customs could have gone ape-s**t and I'd have had a degree of trouble. As for my Ebay selling, and selling from my site, I'll be content with the judgement of others. If I do everything right, the reports should be good. :-) Though cock-ups do happen. Mind you, I don't flag up my stuff on here - it goes against my ideas of etiquette. Peter - thanks for the kind words. :-) Kevin

I wondered about the seam. However, taking into account the thickness of the baseplate, I suspect that the fuchi was constructed by insetting the plate rather than simply soldering it onto bottom of the collar, and that only a lip is sticking out because the match between the edges wasn't perfect. The metal of the collar may thereforework down to the baseplate cos that's how it has been worked. In short, if the mei and the work are not compatible - and I'll leave that for others to decide, cos it is most definitely not my field - the original baseplate has been removed and a new one inserted and soldered into place, rather than being stuck over the original. There aren't any indications of a seam between two plates on the edge of the nakago-ana - it looks like one piece to me. The way the mei is carved also suggests that you'd need a fair thickness of metal, which argues against simply sticking an old plate over a new one. Just my two penn'orth. :-) Kevin

The problem is that our lot think that they are doing something useful, when in fact they are, at best, rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic and, at worst, heading entirely in the wrong direction. Quite a few of them - and the senior civil servants they work with - don't seem, from personal observation, to even live on the same planet as the rest of us. If they did then, to choose one minor example, the Prison Service would not have come up with the idea of having DOMS heading up its offender management programme. Leastways, not with a straight face and looking puzzled when other folks fell around laughing. :lol: Yup, each area is to have a DOM to manage its offenders. Presumably they're bringing back the birch . . . :-) Somebody had to stand up in Parliament and announce that. :-) Presumably it wasn't greeted with large amounts of mirth because the audience consisted of 3 MPs, two of whom were asleep and the 3rd was bored out of his or her skull. In short, the usual level of attendance for most sessions. Kevin

Oh, and following a chat with someone in the police, wakizashi are apparently more likely to be used than katana since the legislation came in. Well, makes sense - they're more easily concealed and there are no restrictions on them if they are under 50 cm. Which is what I predicted would happen to the ejit Minister if they introduced a length limit. :? Kevin

To add to the Monty Python situation, I note that the manufacturers of the swords that they were trying to ban have now got round it by retooling and selling straight 'samurai swords', specifically for the UK market. There's one guy on Ebay even points potential buyers of his "Kill Bill straight katanas" (about £80.00) to the Home Office site to demonstrate that they are legal. There are others going for about £50.00. The upshot is that the swords they were trying to ban are now exempt from any legal restriction, and again multiplying rapidly, whilst the swords that were exempt from the ban are now the only swords to which it applies. :? Now of course they could modify the law to cover 'straight and curved single-edged blades', but then of course they could still legally import them by making them 49.90 cm long, and thus under the 50cm legal limit. Either that or they make them double-edged - a "Kill Bill double-edged katana" anyone? In either straight or curved pattern? All easily predicted - I did suggest in my comments in the consultation process that a) having a limit on length would make the shorter swords more popular b) that they were already making straight 'Japanese' swords (usually marked as "genuwine Ninja sword!!"). It should have been foreseen that there would be an adaptive response by manufacturers to the changed circumstances in order to maintain their existing market. They weren't going to simply go "Whoops! Well, that's it then!" and up sticks. Though I must admit admiring their chutzpah for driving a coach and horses through the spirit of the legislation. I think the word for the resulting situation is 'fiasco'. With reference to the Minister concerned, Vernon Croaker, I might also drop words like 'incompetent', 'addle-pated', 'short-sighted' and 'wazack' into the pot as well. Kevin

Nope - it's trashed. Completely banjaxed. I'd get the one you sent him back very quickly before he decides that needs modification as well. I'd also point out that he has managed to reduce its value to zero. There's spanners that would now be worth more. Kevin

Ah, no, unfortunately it isn't a Koa Isshin sword - it's traditionally made using Manchurian steel. regards Kevin

I have one for sale made of Manchurian iron, but not specifically Manchurian railway. regards Kevin

As I said, disingenuous, cos it doesn't mention all the other potential defences. In practice, you just tell them that it is, cos that is what it was sold as. :-) That's all I've done, and it appears to be evidence enough, hence my remark on self-certification (hence the weakness in the system). Evidence is an email, an invoice, an Ebay page or whatever. On the two occasions I've had to deal with them, they said "Fine! We've passed it to Parcelforce to deliver!" I did as an additional rider, tell them that they could get it independently verified at the V&A if they wished, or the To-ken Society, but they decided not to. OTOH, one, as I recall, had NTHK origami, which I pointed out to them. Oh, I usually email a response back, with attachements, followed by a hard copy in the post. Kevin

Hmm! Might be a case of asking a polisher what can be done. Not having any images, nor any idea of the depth of the hamon, and not being a polisher, I don't know. I'd suspect that the grinding wheel has done for it, but it is best to have professional advice. Well, it was, to put it mildly, naughty of them not to point out rather major problems. OTOH, I always put more weight on the photos than I do on what's written. I actively try and find flaws. By the same token, I'll do a whole load of macro photos if I'm selling something, plus the blade as a whole (bare and mounted), so that a potential buyer has better than what they'd see if they had it in their hands - a macro photo is a bit like looking at it with a magnifying glass. Then again, taking good pictures of swords is a bit of a pain in the rear. :-) Kevin

Which is a whole different ballgame. :-) Yup! I haven't had a 4 week delay, but I did have someone send me a sword labelled 'Japanese antique', with no tariff codes. There was an interesting exchange of letters and emails, but it only took a week or so to get it out of Customs. I don't know if they still are, but they were stopping every Japanese sword nationwide, without exception, in the hope of catching repros. Their standard letter, BTW, is disingenuous - it gives a rather limited number of defences. I got involved in the consultation process, so I've got a copy of the Act on the computer. Oh, agreed. However, they've got less grounds for stopping it than they suggest in their letter. It is exempt from the Act if it is antique, if it has been made before 1945, if it has been made in Japan by a licenced smith using traditional methods, if it is for educational purposes, if it is for sporting purposes (e.g. martial arts), or if it is for re-enactment. I think there's one or two other exceptions, but that's basically it. Oh and it only applies to curved blades over 55 cm. Well, with that lot you could get a Chinese stainless steel wallhanger into the UK if you were bright enough to think how to use the defences. It is a very unsatisfactory bit of legislation. What's more, it leaves Customs in the position of allowing the recipient to self-certify. They have no way of knowing whether your description of 'antique' is valid or not; a bit of collusion between sender and recipient can't be ruled as impossible. After all, the Imperial Japanese Navy had stainless steel swords made, and those are exempt - how would Customs know that this stainless steel sword isn't one of those? Kevin

At present, on my own site. :D Not on Ebay, unless you put up a reserve and a Buy it Now, or offered it at a fixed price, otherwise you'd see it go for bugger all. In general, folks on Ebay want to get things cheap - they don't want to pay market value for things, particularly when the economy is imploding. OTOH, that probably means that you won't get a sale. Simple - don't ship until you do get paid. If you don't get paid, put it up again. :-) Umm! Christies I take it? They are a bit like that about anything post 1900 - it's beneath their notice. OTOH, they seem to be unaware that Yasukuni swords have become collectable. In fact they tend to view all gendaito with disdain, on a par with gunto. My impression of them was that they were seriously up their own bottoms. Not at the moment. Hang on to it till the market recovers. So you declare it on a customs declaration as 'nihonto'. You haven't made a misleading statement - it is in fact perfectly accurate - but the jobsworth at the Post Office won't have a clue what you're on about. :-) OTOH, tell him that it is a sword, and he or she will have a fit of the vapours and refuse to accept it, because it is a 'weapon'. For domestic stuff you don't have to tell them what's in it, but if they get nosey and ask, tell them 'antique metalwork', 'used cutting tool' or some such description. What they don't know won't hurt them. In general, jobsworths and idiot policies are for getting around, unless you want to be paralysed into inactivity by obeying short-sighted numbskulls. So you log onto Ebay US and sell on there. There's more than one way of skinning a cat. :D It's not that problematical - I do it fairly regularly. Kevin

Chinese and modern. Seen them before. It's more of a fantasy implement than a repro of anything historical though. It's certainly neither tekagi nor neko-te. Kevin

Hmm! It depends on what they've been using. Some folks use nitric acid, so you'd be OK. Others, however have been known to use either hydrochloric or iron III chloride. If you use hydrochloric acid you'll get iron III chloride formed. Iron III chloride would be, I would think, a serious problem if it got in the grain. Firstly, it is a fairly strong Lewis acid and it is used for etching circuit boards. It's nicely deliquescent, so it attracts moisture, and the anhydrous form gives off hydrogen chloride. The problem isn't necessarily acid eating away the metal. The problem is the attraction of water, plus chloride ions, plus acidic oxygen rich environment, plus iron equals accelerated rusting. Chloride corrosion of iron and steel is well-known - think of the accelerated corrosion of reinforcing bars in concrete bridges where road salt has got in, leading to iron III chloride formation. It is a major problem stopping it once it has got in - it has been likened to a cancer of reinforced concrete. You get a similar extravagant rusting if you leave iron or steel in oxygenated sea water. Similarly, it only needs a little iron III chloride to be lurking in a bit of open grain for it to start causing problems which, if untended, could seriously damage the sword. I'd be tempted to wash it very thoroughly in a sodium carbonate solution several times (watch to see if any fizzing appears anywhere), then throughly dry before polishing and oiling. OK, not the recommended treatment for a nihonto, but possibly a good precaution for one that's had an acid 'polish'. NB: Thought I'd add that the above effect is effectively a battery, with the iron III chloride acting as an electrolyte, and the return path being through the sword. The reaction goes on for as long as there is enough metal to conduct electrons. Hydrochloric acid or iron III chloride (formed by the former) would be extremely bad news for a nihonto, especially if the grain allowed it to get deep into small spaces in the metal. The only way to deal with it would be to neutralise the Lewis acid, otherwise in a few years you'll just have an interesting pile of hydrated rust. Kevin

Don't worry - the real fwic2803 is one of the good guys. :-) Kevin

I had that scam tried on me several times - by the same guy - eighteen months ago. On each occasion he purported to be the seller and wanted me to pay by Western Union. He was bang out of luck. :-) On the first occasion I checked with the real seller, then strung the con artist along a bit before letting Ebay have the correspondence. However not long after that, bugger me, he's back. Different mail account (though always eastern US), different name, same writing style, identical mis-spellings, identical approach, with the details of the scam the same. And again after that. Eventually, after several unsuccessful attempts (and oodles of reports going to Ebay), I asked him just how stupid was he? And didn't he realise that he was trying to scam someone in the equivalent of the Department of Justice? I never heard anything from him after that. :-) I am still mystified as to how he managed to link my email and my Ebay account. Wonder if it is the same guy, having perfected his technique after a stretch inside? Kevin

Oh, as an afterthought, differences between the hamons of a nihonto and an oil-quenched gunto may not be entirely due (or even majorly due) to oil-quenching. Oil-quenched steels are alloys; some of the ingredients may suppress the grain growth necessary for a typical water-quenched hamon. Some steels may not form a visible hamon at all due to this effect, despite differential hardening. This however is not a fault in the design of the steel or the hardening method - grain growth is designed to be reduced or eliminated in some steels in order to reduce the likelihood of cracking, whereas in others it may be the (desirable) result of designing an alloy that shows increased wear resistance, or hardens to a higher Rockwell, or has an increased degree of through hardening, or has increased toughness, or maybe all combined. It would be interesting to do a survey of the steels used in gunto. Kevin

Hmm! I know that this is the recieved wisdom, but I've always had my doubts, based on having worked in an engineering shop, and having made knives and swords. There are steels that are designed for water quenching. Oil quenching them will produce a substandard edge, no matter how good the steel is. You can take the best steel in the world and bugger it up completely with a bad heat treatment. There are steels designed for oil quenching. Water quenching them will result in warping or breakage. They are commonly used as low distortion tool steels for making cutting tools. There are even steel that air quench, but these are beyond the scope of this post. Now a lot of WW2 smiths showed a competent understanding of metallurgy in the design and manufacture of oil-quenched gunto. True, they weren't making traditional swords - they were however making military weapons and no doubt to the best of their ability. Oil quenching and oil quenched steels had been around a long time by then. I think it unlikely that, under the circumstances, they'd order water-quenching steel stock and then oil quench it, leastways in the pre-war and early days of the war. The very late war is probably another kettle of fish altogether. Of course, if they'd deliberately used oil-quenching stock for various reasons (they may have advantages such as increased wear resistance and enhanced toughness), and were then asked why they didn't water-quench the resulting swords, they'd probably look a bit baffled. "Cos I'll get more breakages if I water-quench" might be a suitable response, particularly if your English isn't up to pointing out that the steel isn't designed to be water-quenched. :-) It then becomes recieved wisdom that they oil-quenched in order to reduce breakages, when in fact they were oil-quenching because that was what that particular grade of steel needed to give of its best and achieve the properties that they were after. BTW, tool steels do not make an inferior replica katana. On the contrary, one I made and tested did the equivalent of chopping a leg off through the bone, with one cut, with no damage to the edge and minimal effect on the polish. They are however not nihonto. Kevin

My gut feeling was "don't touch it with a bargepole". Kevin

My guess for what it's worth? It started out as a civilian sword and someone added a kai-gunto saya and tsuba cos it fitted/looked nice/was available and it needed one. It's easier to get a reasonable approximate fit with a military saya than with a tsuka. Usually the efforts I've seen in swapping tsuka have involved a mallet and a cracked or split core. I'd guess, looking at the pics, that the tsuka has had a rebind and quite possibly new same at some point. Kevin

Generically called a socketed spear. The Japanese did make them - they called them fukuro yari - but they are much less common than the tanged variety. Kevin