Nihonto Chicken

Fake. There are numerous faults that flash like neon signs as towhy this sword is not Japanese. Buy and read some books on nihonto before you look to buy blades, it will be more educational and cheaper in the end.

Not sure whether these qualify as "high class" gunto, though both blades did paper kanteisho at the notoriously tough 1995 LA shinsa, a veritable pink paper blizzard (I went 2 for 5 myself ). The sword at the top is just under 60 cm, but papered as a long sword as I remember. It is in typical gunto mounts with worn leather covered saya. The one below, obviously kanbun shinto, is in buke zukuri mounts, the only military concession being the excellent condition brown and black marbled leather cover and metal hanger on the black lacquer saya. I particularly like the menuki, IMO rather artistic and well fashioned flower and whirlpool designs (better than the poor photos imply).

Possibly a re-re-re-re-re-re-temper?

As others have indicated, the major fulcrum regarding the balance of value is the smith and the blade condition. That said, while the fittings neither add nor subtract from the value of the blade, note that better fittings often, but not always, somewhat reflect the value of the sword contained. Your gunto has three seppa fore and, I assume, aft of the tsuba, and these plus the mon indicate a higher quality of Pacific War koshirae conversion and are as such perhaps a foggy reflection of the value of the blade involved. Even if this particular Hiroshige smith is not that all that collectible, it seems that WWII gunto in nice shape are getting strong bids nowadays (on Fleabay, that is, not so much interest at the regional sword shows). In any event, enjoy your first nihonto and be content that you didn't do as many other newbies have done, that is, rolled the dice and (Chinese) crapped out. If now hooked, spend your next $500-$1000 on books, if you haven't already.

No Hosho Yamato? Masame all the way!!! Okay, I'll be quiet now.

For $500, you did okay. Beginner's luck? If so, don't count on it again, buy and study books as you indicate you will. Dunno whether the mei is shoshin or gimei, or whether it really matters for this blade. The sword appears to be in decent polish, not worth considering a repolish at this time. The ware (lamination openings) are in the shinogi ji, so less detrimental than if lower down near the ha. Now if they are from overpolishing (skin steel worn away, exposing more coarsely laminated core steel), then that's a bad, often considered a fatal flaw. If on the other hand they are just imperfections in the skin steel, then while somewhat detrimental, they're not a show stopper. I suspect the latter is the case. Enjoy the outfit, and when you're ready to move up based on better knowledge, you may well break even on this item. Good fortune.

Sorry if I come off as uncharitable, but here goes. Unless I've entirely miscalculated your nihonto background and expertise, you appear to have some interest in the area, but a lot of "look what I got" wish to show off. That said, it's an open market, so if you've got the $14k to spend, go ahead, you won't get gypped on this particular deal, and you'll surely have a great sword with which to impress. But I'm reminded of a story regarding Cher a few decades ago. In a party at her place, they got a bit inebriated and drew a mustache on an old master oil painting she owned. Not at all saying you'll deface your sword should you buy it, but unfortunately you simply don't at this time know what you'll have, otherwise than "it's neat", and won't properly value it beyond its sales price. And given your apparent lack of knowledge, there is a good possibility that you may accidentally screw up the sword or inadvertently allow it to degrade before its time. I can't stop you from buying this or another sword of its quality, but be aware this isn't like buying a Rolex or Ferrari. Antique swords aren't made anymore, they can't be replaced, regardless of any amount of money. If you have a genuine interest in nihonto, then perhaps cool your jets and buy some relevant books first, take a year sabbatical, study up a bit, and then come back with perhaps a more fundamental understanding of the art, as opposed to the "cool factor", involved in this craft. I apologize if I've misinterpreted your knowledge. Again, it's your money and it's a free market, let your conscience be your guide.

FWIW, pic below of the marks on the nakago mune of my Kokura Arsenal (Kokuri Rikugun Zoheisho) gunto: The top two marks on my piece seem to be similar to the lower marks on the nakago mune pictured in the response above. Below is the link to the thread on my Type 3 sword: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16353-interesting-late-44-gunto/?do=findComment&comment=170555

Nice piece, shows both green and gray, so I guess I'll go with bronze! Thanks!

Thank you all for your informative responses. I've attached an annotated stickie to the ikebana to retain the info. I suppose that the metal may be bronze, I hadn't considered that as I associate that metal with Chinese work, plus it more often has a reddish brown patina, while my item is more a greenish gray where it is patinated. I know that good shakudo with decent patination is a deep purplish black, but doesn't low gold content shakudo turn more of a greenish gray?

Thanks for the feedback on my porcelain bowl, I'm encouraged to ask about another art form I've had for years. Below are pics of a copper alloy, maybe shakudo, tray with bamboo form rim and pine cone feet. Sorry about the sideways mei close-up, was rotated on upload to Photobucket and the PB editor timed out numerous times, too busy jamming ads on the screen to perform a rotation. I included it more to show the alloy detail at the bottom of the pic, the top is mostly sunlight reflection. These are full sunlight photos, the tray is much darker appearing in indoor light. I was told by some bonsai guys years ago at a local Japanese heritage celebration that this is a tray for a flower arrangement, used with a frog set in the middle to anchor the stems. Anyone care to confirm or deny? Can't remember their mei translation, would appreciate that if someone knows it immediately. Also any opinions as to the alloy? TIA! P.S. - How does one put up the expandable thumbnail pics here instead of the full shots? Inquiring minds want to know!

Thank you both for your feedback, very informative. If made in the 20th century for export, I imagine the kanji must be from a transfer, still overall a pretty decorative bowl. Thanks again!

Might anyone identify the maker of this bowl and indicate what it might be used for and the theme or significance of all the kanji? There is also a small saucer with the same graphics but no kanji. I estimate approximately seven hundred characters on the bowl, done by hand or are they a transfer?

Years ago I bought a gunto on a whim and ever since have wondered whether it is a folded steel blade or mill steel. The hamon is nioi deki and the hada is muji. However, when one looks closely at the hamon, many lines of very fine sunagashi are to be seen all along the blade, indicative of masame hada if it's indeed folded steel. The nakago is blank, no mei, no date, no stamp. Note the composite photo below (ha is to the left on the left side close-ups and to the right on the right side). Sorry for the poor lighting and reflections (the purple is my camera), but it's difficult to get close-ups of this. And, yes, the ha machi is chipped (alas, though not by me). TIA for informed opinions!

Welcome to the forum, Joel. It is apparent that your sword has been mistreated with western style abrasive grit such as sandpaper or Flitz/Simichrome or the like. It's mirthfully sad that someone tried to replicate a yokote with sandpaper. Unlike Japanese stones, western hard grits smear the surface metal and obscure the activity in the metal. If you are keeping this blade, I recommend that you get some uchiko and spend some time clearing away the haze. If interested, please see my response (#24) to the thread linked below and note the cautions. http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16047-refinish-and-polish-or-not/ Note also that your blade shows some ware (lamination openings). If these are in the skin steel, then they are just annoying, but not a show stopper. However, if they are from core steel emerging to the surface from over-polishing, then the sword is essentially toast, value-wise. This consideration is among many others why the first hundreds of dollars spent on nihonto should be for books, not blades. Good fortune to you.

Just to add in my two cents, I regularly visit, and even respond to (less as days go by), a number of disparate special interest forums. Nihonto, firearms, fountain pens, motorcycles, silver, whatever. Specific forums generally develop a unique temperament, usually according to the moderators and greybeards. My main fountain pen forum is very tightass (wouldn't dare use this term there), it's generally quewed to verbage at best that wouldn't upset the father of a budding thirteen year old female, and it tends to harshly proscribe anything beyond that level. Then again, my local state firearms forum regularly features off-topic posts regarding non-PC topics such as comely females, with freewheeling comments as to their attributes, desireability and imagined intentions of the poster. It's a younger crowd, though, and there are other firearems forums I frequent that are much more conservative, such as the shotgun forum that is quite restrained, not quite as purely pristine as the fountain pen forum, but quite a long way from the aforementioned local general gun forum. The collectible silver forum is pure as the driven snow, politics and sex simply don't exist, and people just don't tend to "get into it" as typical of many other venues. With that wind up, let me say that this forum is rather tough for newbies. Yeah, there are a lot of "gimme the translation" for eBay buyers/sellers who just want to turn a buck, okay, screw 'em. Then for the less mercenary, perhaps only one out of ten will be sparked by an informative response here to start climbing the rather steep nihonto learning tree. C'mon people, it is damn near vertical at the base with sparse toeholds, and not in anyway rewarding until many feet up (hopefully not after pissing away many dollars after Chinese/Indian crappers and battered and butchered Bungos). I myself only got so far, after Connoisseur I was faced with buying Fujishiro and its translations, and instead backed off at that point (more due to a lack of funds than interest, not funds for the books, but funds for market value blades after that, been kinda a tight decade). BTW, I may not be a longer term member of this forum, but I date back to the old Robert (not Bob!!!) Cole forum and the succeeding Yahoo forum. Took me a while to find this forum after the Yahoo site ran out of gas. From time to time, I come across a post on a firearm forum from someone who's come into the possession of a nihonto and wants enlightenment. I generally refer to this forum, but with the stern admonishment to not request an estimation of value, and also to generally tread lightly and appear as obsequious as possible. It's a tough forum, folks. I don't expect the moderators and greybeards to agree with this assessment. That's their view from where they sit. From a newbie outlook, it's a tough forum. Trust me.

I've come to the conclusion that the best insurance for the future well being of nihonto results from selling them to those who will pay the highest price.

Yeah, I once bought a totally fake nihonto. But this was maybe twenty five years ago, before the Chinese got into the ersatz biz big time. Back then, with my beginner's enthusiasm well eclipsing my sword knowledge and buyer's skepticism, I fell for some phuzzy Fleabay fotos and "won" an East Indian fake. I knew enough to realize as soon as I opened the box what it was, a $200 lesson in the fruits of ignorance and stupidity.

Well, I've not seriously sought to either buy or sell swords for a few years now, seems the market has moved forward in my absence, interesting since neither the US or the Japanese economy is all that stellar. Maybe time to rent a table at the SF Show?

Oh, c'mon, really? Two kilobucks for this? I mean, nice sword for what it is, needs re-finishing polish, but two grand??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/MT3-Japanese-WWll-Army-officers-sword-in-mountings-Hiromasa-/231512479586?nma=true&si=OcjEyB28ye5%252BbbMOCpKrF%252Fa0SVE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Maybe I should throw my two Pacific War leather covered saya gunto with kanteisho shinto blades into the pot. Then again, they probably wouldn't clear a couple of hundred skins. Just can't figure it out. Oh, well.

Thanks for the pics! All the rest of the koshirae appear to be identical to my example. So it seems that this fittings style may have been standard issue at Kokura Arsenal. What about the blade mei? Is this the fourth example here of Kokuri Rikugun Zoheisho with no personal swordsmith signature?

FWIW, link to my thread regarding a third similar example (thx to reeder for flagging this current thread): http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16353-interesting-late-44-gunto/ Seems the missing personal swordsmith mei may not be a one-off inadvertent slip up.

I've had this Late-'44 (Type 3?) shin gunto for a number of years, thought I'd perhaps share a looksee here and solicit opinions on some whys and wherefores. I've heard that the change in fittings from the earlier style gunto was perhaps to simplify construction and save valuable copper and copper-based alloys for other war efforts, hence the blackened iron tsuba, ashi, ishizuke and kabuto-gane on typical Type 3s. However, my example, while visually simpler than its more numerous brothers, uses copper in place of blackened iron for the end pieces. The blade has a 25.5 inch nagasa and is fold forged and water tempered, signed only Kokura Arsenal (I think). The ito is standard old style silk over black lacquered wood (no same or shagreen). The saya is a rough black lacquer over wood (no metal). Here is a close-up of the kabutogane, note it is plain, no stamping or embossing: Here is the ishizuke, also smooth and plain (and very thick!). It is made of two halves soldered together. The menuki are just plain pieces of some non-ferrous metal (unfortunately not gold or silver koban!). The ashi is black lacquered iron of a simplified 1934 style, the fuchi and kabutogane are plain copper, and the tsuba is blackened iron. The seppa, which look like aluminum in the pic above, are actually dished steel with aluminum paint and brass inserts. They and the tsuba are tightly fitted to the nakago as evidenced by the punch marks. The blade itself is well polished (no waves or dips) and shows a very thin nioiguchi that at times exhibits nijuba, ashi and yo (cow dribble hamon?). The boshi is jizo (not pictured, I was blind enough with what I got!). Unfortunately, the sword also exhibits a number of ware in one area. The pic below shows the worst of the ware, the rest of the sword is fairly clean: Here is the mei, which reads Kokura Arsenal, I think. I didn't translate it myself (too tough!), but seem to remember matching it to a mei in a book that I cannot now locate. Typical. Here is the date, Sho Wa (1926) jyu (10) ku (9) nen (year) = 1944, jyu (10) ni (2) gatsu (month) = December, 1944: There are also three characters on the mune side of the nakago which I can't identify. The lowest one looks somewhat like an Arabic 2, but there are no assembly numbers anywhere else. So, does anyone have feedback as to 1. How does this model fit into the progression of Type 3 style? If a simple, end-of-the-line, "last ditch" effort, then why the use of copper instead of iron? Or maybe just a one-off Kokura Arsenal production? 2. Can anyone confirm or deny Kokura Arsenal as the mei? 3. What are the kanji on the nakago mune and what do they represent? 4. Any other insights into this piece or the progression of Late-'44 gunto in general? TIA!!!

Great, can't wait for August, there will now be some decent visual competition should I decide to display my dearly purchased BABB* blades for sale! *Battered And Butchered Bungo

As has already been mentioned, the blade has been sandpapered and, worst of this, the shinogi rounded. To re-sharpen the shinogi, a great deal of metal needs be removed, just a matter of geometry. Also, hard grit such as used in sandpaper burnishes the metal and hides the hamon and other activity. Given the current condition of this sword, it wouldn't hurt at this point to get some uchiko and spend a few hours clearing away the haze. See my post #16 in the thread below for more of an explanation: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5560-thoughts-please/ The uchiko won't eliminate the sandpaper scratches, but will clarify the metal between them. If there is a hamon remaining, a few hours of uchiko work will reveal it despite the hard grit damage.