Nihonto Chicken

Did someone say "Beetlejuice" three times? Yes, the Chicken still lives, but has been away for a time now, with military/riot shotguns supplanting the nihonto itch. You may thank (or castigate) BaZZa for trolling up this fowl member. I hope to attend the No. Cal. Token Kai this year after two misses due to Covid and cancellations. It is, alas, time in life to consider de-accession as opposed to accumulation and find new caretakers. Have no feeling at this time as to the nihonto market place, need to study up here, I guess. The koshirae that kicked off this thread are indeed quite nice, very refined. I have a near complete chicken set, rather beefy, minus the tsuba, that are more "over the top", but no candidate sword on which to fit them. Oh, well. Anyway, hi to all who remember da Chicken, fondly or else. I will try (and likely fail ) to abstain from further recommending the Jim Kurrasch power uchiko method for removing clouds and rust fron newbies' swords. Hope everyone here had a great winter solstice season (is this PC enough?), and have an equally rewarding 2022.

I know I've responded to this question many years ago, but I can't find a copy of that answer, so I'll just go with a Cliff's Notes version here. Back in the '80s I had no interest in nihonto, but did have an interest in firearms, and so every once in a while I would buy a copy of Shotgun News off the news stand. This was an oversize pulp paper publication of a few hundred pages, about a quarter of an inch thick, with both commercial and private ads for all types of firearms and related parts and accouterments. The front page, which consisted of about four columns of regular print, was of course where the highest cost ads appeared. There was one ad that always appeared, taking about three inches or so of column height and therefore relatively expensive for the author. It was titled "WANTED - Japanese SWORDS" and had a bit of description and contact information. But what was remarkable was the following that composed most of the ad length: Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanses Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords Japanese Swords (Edit Note: The above was actually in all caps, but this site's auto-edit will not let me write Japanese in all caps!) Notice the intentional mis-spelling in one of the lines that was likely intended to catch readers' eyes. It was obvious that there was some decent value in such swords for the author to run this same ad in all the issues (3 times a month), but I just passed it off as a quirk not worth investigating. In the late '80s I was involved in an expansion in my company and so was taking a number of cross country flights. On one such journey, I was waiting in a terminal, I think in Phoenix, for my flight back home but not positive of this location. In this terminal there were a hand full of white and plexiglass kiosks, displaying nihonto. I'd never seen such before, and was amazed at the metallurgy, particularly the hamon, of course. I had no idea that swords could be so complex and, well, fascinating, but this still wasn't enough to kick me into gear. A few years later, in 1994, I was on another trip, this time to Dallas, Texas. Having a break at lunch time, I looked up and went to a militaria shop there. The shop had three or four gunto, mostly beat as I remember and in no way comparable to what I'd seen earlier in the airport terminal. Then I came across what was described as a kamikaze tanto, a new concept to me. The shop proprietor, responding to my apparent interest, showed me a book that described the item, Military Swords of Japan, 1868 - 1945, Fuller & Gregory. Being a total newbie, I remember wondering whether this tanto could be a fake, though having no real knowledge of any degree of such in this field. I convinced myself that the tanto was likely good, comparing it to the info in the book and observing the quality of the mount, the bone trim, and the apparent age related wear, and so I bought both the tanto ($250) and the book. The hook was set! Well, it turned out to be a real kamikaze tanto, but not a real nihonto, as it has a mill steel blade, though with a real hamon (perhaps oil quenched). It was unfortunately quite a while before I got clued into good info sources such as the JSSUS and the Robert Cole web site. I remember reading sales sheets from "the R guy" in Pittsburgh and trying to translate the Japanese sword terms into their English counterparts. I think I got about half of the usual terms before I finally found a nihonto dictionary. So that was the start, followed by numerous subsequent hits and misses. I still have the tanto.

Dunno whether modern smiths have rediscovered "true utsuri", perhaps Yoshiharu rediscovered "fake utsuri"? Whatever, this example is possibly interesting in that its midare form wouldn't seem to correspond to the blade's muji hada, also it's nearly as vivid as the (admittedly none-too-bright) suguha hamon. Okay, just another stray comment from the bargain basement, I'll be quiet now.

Similar to that indicated above, my favorite trick is to view the reflection of a Venetian blind or other surface with numerous parallel lines, and shift the reflection up and down the blade. Even small waves become quite apparent. But be careful, my as originally polished Showa Kumemune almost made me seasick!

Hi, Barry! Thanks for the the welcome. I've missed the last two No. Cal. sword shows (of course 2020 was cancelled, and in 2019 my wife had knee surgery at the time of the event), so it's been quite a while since I've seen the familiar faces. Hoping to make the 2021 show, assuming it comes off this year. In the meantime will make sporadic, eminently forgettable comments here.

Just a passing observation. Way back when I was using the Jim Kurrasch memorial power uchiko method of erasing the gunto grey and bringing out the hataraki on a non-rusty but out of polish sword, sometimes the cloth would seize on the blade and my fingers would slip off and directly contact the steel (luckily avoiding the ha, I hate seeing blood, particularly my own). When I went back to applying and stroking the uchiko, I could feel the area where my bare skin had contacted the blade as the cloth would move faster over the oil slick, which was invisible to the eye. Sooooo, how many strokes were necessary to remove the contamination? Note that my fingers were not particularly sweaty or oily to start with, and I was using a lot of uchiko. Answer: about fifty strokes or more before the slick area was completely erased. Amazing what the "pores" of apparently smooth steel can retain. One more observation from the basement.

Hi, folk! Back again after a long hiatus. For the newer types, I've been kibbutzing since the old Robert Cole forum days. Won't have anything spectacular to add now, given the meager retirement income as well as age induced lack of desire to track down old widder women and fake them out of their dear lost hubby's swords. May have some input now and then on bargain basement gunto and the like. In the meantime, Happy New Year to all.

Just a passing minor comment, here is a pic of my Yoshiharu mei and rubbing (on lined note paper, no less!). Re discussion as to whether these blades are gendaito or not, I note that the file marks on the nakago are well finished at the top, showing some care for a minor detail. Not proof, of course, but perhaps some evidence for a better pedigree. BTW, yes, I'm back, for any who remember or care (yawn, zzzzz). Still have the old battered and butchered Bungo and gunto, nothing new to add to the discussion. May drop in from time, comments from the peanut gallery on the lower end while I drool over the good stuff.

Thanks, guys, for the updates. I will try to follow up on the Kaga Fujishima/Wakimono clues.

As others have indicated, your sword has been attacked with sandpaper. Unlike the relatively soft grits of Japanese stones, western style sandpaper utilizes a very hard grit that burnishes the metal as it cuts, thereby hiding all the underlying hada (grain) and hataraki (activity), if any. Even worse in your case, the sandpaper bandit rounded off the shinogi (mid-blade ridge line), the easiest and most costly mistake to be made in trespassing where angels fear to tread. This is because a very large amount of metal must be removed to bring the shinogi back to the original sharp angle, possibly much more than would be necessary just to remove the residual pitting.

Hey, what took you guys so long? Thank you for the enlightenment! I can't seem to find the Fujishima school in my Connoisseur's text at first glance. Can you tell me what are related schools and provinces? Thanks again!

I received today the NTHK papers for the kai gunto blade I submitted at the San Francisco shinsa. I'd been wondering about these, in my age addled memory function I thought perhaps I'd already gotten them and forgotten where I'd put them. Looks like that realization will be put off for a time. Anyway, now that I have them, what do they say? I'm hopeless at kanji, despite my long time ownership of the flash cards. I like to prevail if I could one someone's good nature to tell me what the NTHK says I've got. Pics below: TIA for a translation life preserver!!!

The standards for gunto seem to have been rather lax, and many Pacific War swords were a mix of the military and traditional kodogu. I have a nice shinto blade mounted in buke zukuri koshirae save the military leather wrap over the wood saya and the chromed steel hanger. Good chance it was an in-family sword taken off to war.

I missed the registration form in the other notices, thanks for the link here. My request will go out in the mail tomorrow. From now until the shinsa I will likely suffer pink paper nightmares.

For those of us intending to attend the August show but who will not have a table, what are the necessary steps and timing to reserve slots for shinsa evaluation?

It appears that your blade has been sanded or "treated" to a hard grit Western polishing agent like Flitz or Simichrome since the yokote is gone and the resulting burnished steel surface is acting like a mirror and obscuring the underlying activity. You can obtain some decent uchiko and spend a few hours revealing the hamon without chance of harming the blade (just keep off the shinogi). If interested, take a look at the thread linked below (my comment at the end): http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/8267-need-help-iding-my-grandfathers-ww2-bring-back/?hl=%2Bkurrasch+%2Buchiko&do=findComment&comment=85562 Oh, wow, my second uchiko rec today after a long absence from this forum. Doubling down on Nomex!!!

Rust on steel always results in pits, even the translucent white frost that is often the start of something more serious, though those pits may be too small to be seen with the unaided eye. Assuming we're talking about the more serious rust, black, red or brown, it is unlikely that a soft copper coin will scratch an adjacent, still nicely polished area deeper than the offending rust spot with underlying pit being addressed. Since the next polish will need to go as deep as the rust pit, the adjacent scratches, if any, will be taken out as well, so no harm, no foul. BTW, even with a dead soft copper coin (or anything else of similar nature), scratching of the adjacent polished steel may well occur, not done by the coin or other instrument used itself, but by bits of breakaway rust being pushed away from the offending spot. My rec, if the blade is in generally good polish, send it off to a professional to remove the offending rust. If not in good polish, employ the power uchiko method. Okay, Nomex fire suit donned!

The spots may have been caused by tape residue or the like that wasn't completely removed, but the spots themselves are very likely oxidation patches, IMO. Very light rust, when it first starts up, is often white in color, not the red, brown and black when it gets further along. I've found that even the very light white rust often leaves pitting, though your micro-photographs look like you may have avoided that. The spots may possibly be removed using enough uchiko, but that could have a deleterious effect on the state of the polish. So you can either learn to love them, chance the uchiko (what I'd do, but I'm a nihonto Philistine and haven't as yet paid two grand for a polish), or have a professional polisher remove them (a many hundred dollar proposition, I'm guessing, essentially a finish polish redo). Good fortune in whatever you decide!

It may be somewhat confusing that what has been translated from the Japanese as "tempering" is really in western parlance "quench hardening". In the west, tempering is a second heat treatment in which the hardened metal is reheated to a few hundred degrees F with the result that some hardness is lost, but with a great increase in ductility (resistance to brittle fracture). Metallurgically, the blade is first heated to above the phase transformation temperature, and the previous room temperature structure of ferrite (body-centered cubic iron) and pearlite (a lamellar structure of ferrite and cementite, Fe3C) is all converted to a solution of carbon in austenite (face-centered cubic iron). When the blade is quenched, there is not enough time for the original forms to return through a diffusion process, and the metal steps off the equilibrium phase diagram, and instead of pearlite, martensite is formed (body centered tetragonal iron with carbon straining the lattice). Martensite is very hard, but also very brittle. In the west, martensite is usually tempered and is transformed to a number of different end products, such as spheroidite (spherical particles of Fe3C in ferrite), the nature and amount of which depend on the starting mix, the result of the quench, and the time and temperature of the tempering process, but usually resulting in a much less brittle metal with much greater strength than at the start (ferrite and pearlite).

Thanks for the info. Given the numerous remakes of this iconic print, I guess there's not much chance of dating this one. Whatever, a favorite of mine. Thanks again.

Years ago I purchased a nicely framed repro print of "Red Fuji" (Fine Wind, Clear Morning). I'd be interested if anyone might be able (without a lot of effort) to identify the maker and period of the print as indicated by the seals below. Please ignore my shadow cast on the print. TIA for any enlightenment!

Starting from the top, 1. The tsuka wrap is wrong, both in style and material, and the same color is questionable (usually natural white or else lacquered black). 2. The kashira is a crude casting. 3. (Pass on the out of focus mei, but it looks funny.) 4. The hada looks like damascus, quite overblown and non-Japanese in character. 5. The hamon is dead and lifeless, quite the opposite of true nihonto. 6. The habaki is crudely carved in a questionable pattern. 7. The seppa and tsuba are crude castings. 8. The fuchi is a crude casting. 9. The kissaki shape is wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Correct is always curved, never a straight wedge shape. 10. The carving on the blade is crude. I'm sure others can point out more deficiencies. Said many times before, the first few hundred dollars you spend on nihonto should be for books. For a person who does not have the time or interest, but still just "has to have" a real nihonto, the only viable alternative is to find a knowledgeable collector who will guide him or obtain a blade for him, or else put himself into the hands of a reputable dealer, but this is still likely to be a four figure start. And without decent knowledge, proper care of the sword is in doubt (not to mention proper appreciation). Still better to drop a few hundred on books and "knowledge up" first. Best of fortune in your endeavor.

Is there any guarantee that the shrine will take better care of the repolished sword than it did in the past? Oops, okay, see it will go to a museum. That may be better, depending. Agree that a private collector who has paid dearly is the best guarantee of good preservation.

Fake. There are numerous faults that flash like neon signs as towhy this sword is not Japanese. Buy and read some books on nihonto before you look to buy blades, it will be more educational and cheaper in the end.

Not sure whether these qualify as "high class" gunto, though both blades did paper kanteisho at the notoriously tough 1995 LA shinsa, a veritable pink paper blizzard (I went 2 for 5 myself ). The sword at the top is just under 60 cm, but papered as a long sword as I remember. It is in typical gunto mounts with worn leather covered saya. The one below, obviously kanbun shinto, is in buke zukuri mounts, the only military concession being the excellent condition brown and black marbled leather cover and metal hanger on the black lacquer saya. I particularly like the menuki, IMO rather artistic and well fashioned flower and whirlpool designs (better than the poor photos imply).