Mushin

Gents, Bought books, read the ones in English, struggled with the ones in Japanes, parsed the forum, took your advice to heart and have bit the bullet and bought my first nihonto. I'll post more about it later -- as soon as I get my digital camera working again. But in the meantime my question now involves the origami. The sword comes with a NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho certificate. Now I remember reading here in snippets and having had conversations with other collectors about the need to be careful with "old" papers. One post I recall mentioned mei with old papers almost always equals gimei. What are the dangers of old papers? Are there signs to look out for? Rules of thumb? Do old (green) NBTHK papers fall into the "danger Will Robinson" category? Thanks to all.

Not easy sending your sword into the UK though for work though, is it?

Can anybody recommend one? Thanks, Bobby

Does anybody know the smith? Was he known for eccentric hamons?

Hello all, Could you help me figure this one out? http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/08268.html Is this hamon suguha choji midare? Or is it a kind of koshi-no hirata midare with choji midare? Tsuruta-san on his description just says it's three parts surged gunomemidare. The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords on page 257 says that the hamons of the Yamashiro wing of the Chizuken Nobukuni school during this period were chu suguha and choji midare mixed with koshi-no hirata midare. Is that what this is? How would you guys describe it? As always, thanks. Bobby

Hello all, Just curious, does anybody know if a sword with an orikaeshi mei (Muromachi era with Hozon papers) stands a chance at getting a Tokubetsu Hozon at shinsa? Or does its altered length and folded signature proclude it from getting to the next level? Thanks, Bobby

Ok, so I have a question: looking at this offering, and the one in Jacques’ oshigata. as well as the sanbongsugi on the Shinshinto Sukesada and the straight hamon here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3408 I am wondering if there’s such a thing as a typical Yokoyama school hamon? I understand that the school specialized in choji midare of crowded blossoms and featured yakidashi in the hamon, but am I wrong to assume that Yokoyama smiths experimented with lots of hamon styles? Were these perhaps made to different clients orders? Thanks, Bobby

Just for everybody's information, the Ebay sellers wrote me to say that they were the producer and distributor of the hardcover book and can furnish as many copies as anybody wants or needs. They said that with the retail purchase of the first book they can offer additional copies for $95 each and make sure that one of them is signed by the author. You can conact them via the email contact the seller link on the Ebay link. Hope this helps. Best, Bobby

I got it guys! Thanks for advice and the insight. Bobby

Gentlemen, Anybody know this work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=001 I'm hungry for good reference material and anything in English is a nice extra. Is this a good one? Thanks, Bobby B

An earlier post about gendaito that were mass produced during WW2 mentioned that they were oil quenched. Many modern production forges -- including some high-end ones -- making shinken for iaido and tameshigiri also oil quench. Can anyone tell me how this effects the steel, and are there tell tale signs when looking at a blade to tell if was oil quenched? Thanks, Bobby

Brian, Yes. Paper just sez -- as best I can tell -- Bishu Osafune Sukesada (Shinshinto). Here is a better picture of the mei. I was just trying to figure out which, if any, Sukesada smiths of the period might have toyed with a sanbonsugi hamon? The seller says there is yakidashi in the hamon, indicating a Yokoyama School influence, suggesting a Sukenaga or Sukehira connection. Possible? I was wondering were there other Shinshinto Sukesada that did this? Best, Bobby

Based on my limited reference resources and knowledge I have found about a dozen shinshinto smiths using the name Sukesada. Any idea how many of these signed Bishu Osafune? Was it several smiths? Any place to find out the distinguishing stylistic attributes of their work? Thanks, Bobby

Thanks very much Jacques. So from what I infer he was not prolific, but well thought of by Fujishiro. (I assume this from the reference to his being considered senpai to the Izumi swordsmiths and rated SUEKOTÔ JÔSAKU.) The papers, obviously from an older shinsa, also only attiubute the work to Masakiyo -- again I assume this the result of the blade being orikaeshi mei. Is this something to be concerned about? And I can't find anything on Montonaga, the shinshinto smith who did the shortening. Does anybody have any work by him? As always you guys are great teachers and I thank you. Bobby

Thank you very much indeed, that's it. (I am not doing very well with my kanji at all.) Any idea where I can find out more about these smiths? Any references you can recommend? Much appreciated, Bobby

Hey folks, Looking at wakizashi, mei Masakiyo, Aoki Motonaga Ageru Kore. I am told it is the work of Kagashiro Masakiyo, I've not been able to find out much about the smith. The sword was shortened some 300 years ago by Aoki Taira Motonaga about whom I have found nothing. It is orikaeshi mei but in really outstanding condition and papered. Anybody able to tell me more about the smiths? Many thanks, Bobby

Jeff, I was considering that blade as well because of the price point but was gently steered away from it by more experienced collectors here. I think Jean mentioned hiraji ware, though I cannot see it, and he may have been refering to another sword in the group that I solicited advice on. On the other hand, the one constant that was stressed to me is that if you like it, and can afford it buy it, but it pays to be patient if you are not sure. More experienced voices need to guide you and answer your other questions. Best, Bobby

Ok Jean (and Brian and everyone else), If it's ok with you I'd like to take you up on your generous offer. After scouring the sites and trying to take into account your advice and guidance I came up with this smattering of wakizashi's in a few different styles from a few periods that fall within my budget. The first group are my main focus because they are what I have saved for. But being struck by the bug I included a few that would be harder but not impossible to (reluctantly) tap credit for. Almost all of these are papered and appear to have few ha kizu from what I see in the pictures. FYI Tsuruta-san has vouched to me about the condition and integrity of the sword you recommended to me, promising me 199% refund if he is wrong. Seems a bit of hyperbole, but reflects the level of his certainty that this is the perfect first nihonto for a new collector. The problem is that it's a bit more than I really can afford in this wonderful economic situation we find ourselves in. Anyway, here's my shortlist. It's my first true nihonto, and am looking for something to study, find out more about, and above all enjoy. But I also want to be sure I have something that is a stepping stone to the next level of sword from an investment point of view. Your suggestions and thoughts will be taken to heart as I make my decision. Thank you again in advance for sharing your experience and extending me help in this makeshift be nice to a newbie section. Best, Bobby Swords that are within budget http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/touken/ ... nemori.htm http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0810_2020syousai.htm http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0710_2001syousai.htm I can barely make it… http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0810_2018syousai.htm http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0810_2035syousai.htm Just beyond my reach but … http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/07098.html http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0710_2015syousai.htm

Thanks Jacques, so I noticed. What about Ginza Choshuya more downmarket group Fine Sword Company & Ltd? (http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/touken/touken.htm) There are a few interesting papered swords in my price range there. Though translating the Japanese is proving to be a tough exercise. Thanks Bobby

Forgive for asking, but it seems from the subtext of some statements that there are some issues with Ginza Choshuya. Is the dealer reliable? Bobby

Sorry Jean. It's not my intention to be jumping around through periods and blade styles. It is an unintended consequence of my enthusiasm and lack of experience. Anyway, what had initially attracted me to the Sukesada was the fact that is was in my price rage of under $3000, appeared in good polish and was papered, which I thought was important. I also was intrigued by the idea that it was likely a Sukenaga blade -- a reflection of the fact that I have read about his work. I did not like the fact the sword as ko and I would have preferred an older blade with some history, but I figured that in this price range, "burglars can't be choosers". Now to styles: I was looking for a wakizashi as I felt I had the greatest chance of finding a nice first blade to study and admire in my price range. However, I did not have the sword to inspect until two days ago, when I noticed the mune-ware that raised my concern. Perhaps the origami and Sukenaga link were not good reasons upon which to make my decision. There was a Bungo blade that I also liked but read so much about the downside of these blades that I shied away. It also was not papered. (http://www.swordsofjapan.com/Yukinaga.htm). The only other swords that have come to my attention is the o-tanto/ko-wakizashi that Brian found, which is really nice (wonderful hada), but not exactly what I was looking for, and the other sword that I posted earlier. Again, these are unpapered, and possibly gimei. With things in the States so economically topsy-turvy, and the job market so uncertain, I am hesitant to spend too much more right now. But for those same reasons, since I hit my savings goal I feel I am in a use it or lose it situation (sigh). So all that said, I like the look and time period of the Bungo blade, but am not sure of its chances of getting the Hozon (and am looking at paying more). And I like the Sukesada blade but not the fact that it has ware and lacks a wider appeal – both of which could limit me later when I want to trade up. But then I am in a price range where I would like is beyond my grasp. So in my quandary I thought turning to the collecting community for guidance was the best thing to do. Thanks, Bobby

Gentlemen, I cannot thank you enough for your feedback and thought-provoking advice. I did a quick trawl though some sites and also found this, which is a little more money, but is a much larger, older sword, and not so tanto-like: http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/sword21.html But if I am not mistaken there are many collectors who look down on the school. Thoughts? Again, thanks much. Bobby

Thanks, Brian. I understand the Sukesada signature was used by Sukehira or Sukenaga Yokoyama, if I am correct, were considered among the more prominent Shinshinto smiths, though I do not know this for a fact, and as best as I can make out the origami does not comment on. Is this fact true? Coming back to the blade. It is nice and there is lot's of activity, and finding a papered sword at this price is not easy, but you are right I have my doubts. I am just not sure that there is not much better until you get into the $4000 plus price range. Anyway I am interested in what others can advise. Thanks again, Bobby

Hello all. I'm new to the forum and collecting, though I did study nihonto a bit years ago when I lived in the UK and first got interested in the subject. Anyway I'm writing because I need some advice from more experienced collectors. I'm about to buy a small Shinshinto wakizashi signed Bishu Osafune Sukesada. The sword is papered by NBTHK, authenticating the signature as that of a Shinshinto smith. The blade is on the small side with a 31.4 cm nagasa in good polish. The hamon is well defined gunome midare, with ashi ko nie deki. However, there are a few issues: there' a small chip in the ha and another tiny nick a few centimeters down toward the hamachi. There is also some small but noticeable mune-ware about 17 cm from the kisaki. The asking price is $2300 US. So my question is: is this the right blade at the proper price for my first sword? More specifically are these small flaws reflected in the price? How does these impact its investment potential when I want to trade up? Does the fact that the sword is papered compensate to some degree for these flaws? Am I perhaps better off letting this one go, and saving a little more towards something else? Also I was wondering, due to its slender size but perfect proportion, was this a child's blade, or just a small wakizashi, fashionable at the time? I will attach photos and appreciate any and all advice. Thanks, Mushin