Toryu2020

Matt et al - I think we are seeing something like this; 元治元歳子十月日 Genji-gan toshi (or sai) Ne Ju-gatsu hi - maybe read Genji-gan Ne-doshi Jugatsu Hi A day in the First year of Genji (Ganji), year of the rat. I think John is on to something there, the Shu could be the beginning of a title such as Mondo no sho, but who can tell at this point. Might be nice to have more pictures to consider... -t

I believe Nick Nakamura and Danny Massey are both based in Louisville, There might also be someone at the Frazier with basic knowledge that could help but about that I am not certain. I would try contacting Danny thru his website. http://www.nihontocraft.com/ In the end might be kind of a long drive to be told what you already know... -t (formerly of Kentucky)

The hi appears to have age, while the horimono do not, maybe just the photos but I would want to see many more before spending money on this one... -t

Looks like the smith is Ono Yoshimitsu 大野義光 -t

...plus value - Are you wanting a translation or just hints to help you work it out on your own? -t

Look for ox-carts and Kyoto and imperial carriages or processions, images of just what you are looking for should come up with links to historical and literary connections... -t

Part of this is public versus private, If you are in someones home viewing their personal collection etiquette dictates you bow to the object, to acknowledge it and all those people and spirits that have been mentioned already - basically formal etiquette as in the tea ceremony. in a retail situation like a sword shop you would not necessarily bow unless you wanted to be very polite, I think Inami-san was doing James a service by teaching him in just this way, as a foreigner he may have been viewed with suspicion but if he were seen to be very polite and practised at handling swords he would get more consideration I am sure. Today people, especially Japanese people seem to handle swords roughly at shows and other places, I always bow to the swords before and after at a kantei-kai but see few Japanese doing the same these days although this is what we are taught. I'll admit I am a lowly martial artist, and I was taught pretty much what James details by a Japanese teacher - the reigi for viewing swords and for practising with them is similar but I never thought exclusive to budoka... -t

I'd like to see better pics of the jigane, but I'll bite - how about Darani Katsukuni? -t

Any more photos available? How about an item number? curious... -t

You have to wonder what he is hiding with that saya!

Brian - I hear what you're saying, thus I advised David to trust them. At the same time though I am trying to learn from these examples not just accept it as written. Kezuru to scrape is just as good a possibility as the others posited but lacks the correct number of strokes. Pick up a brush and write Shi as in the photo and it is easy to see how the writer could have come up with what we see. Trying my best to deform Togi, Saya, Koku and Kezuru in the same way I fail to find a good match. I have a few Japanese readers around my house and from context Togi-shi and or Saya-shi are the best fit and on initial reading what all have seen. Followed of course by "what odd characters!" Afterall who is most likely to make a shirasaya but a polisher or saya-maker. I expect everyone else has tuned this out but I am curious if Moriyama-san or Morita-san or anyone else for that matter has been able to reproduce the character we see from one known in a convincing manner. -t

Brilliant stuff James! and you built a webpage already! Seems the "bug" when it bits you, it bits you at any age. Nice call on the tantô as well, nobody famous but a very solid little sword. -t

I also considered Koku-shi 刻師 there being more strokes than for Togi-shi but not knowing if it has any carvings context would make the Togi-shi the most likely suspect. Then again given how he has deformed the kanji for -Shi it could be anything -t

David - I think you'd be better off listening to Moriyama-San, this guy has an odd way with some of his characters and though i think it maybe says Togishi-shi 研師, rather than saya-shi he clearly spotted this the first time... -t

How nice to see Stephen back in true form... -t

Certainly is a curious call given what we can see, though I do believe that koshirae are submitted separately so there is one piece of evidence that we have that the shinsa team did not. I wonder Steve would you be willing to post photos of the hamon/nakago in the area of the hamachi? Not sure it will tell us anything but as I said I'm curious now... -t

Welcome aboard James! You really must tell us all about those heady days in 1960s Tokyo. The elder Inami-san and the Japan Sword Co. in that era are legend to most of us here. Looking forward to your cntributions, -t

I am not familiar enough with the swords in question to comment but I do agree that the owners are correct in seeking more information, research and other opinions by posting their questions in forums like this sharing them with sword clubs and yes submitting for other shinsa. But I would say not till you got the paper you wanted or the "best smith" , as mentioned in the first post, rather the best attribution and that requires study... -t

Well I would say the key word here is overseas, and I may be criticized because I have a dog in this hunt but I believe the way we approach shinsa here in the West is mistaken. I seem to see the roadshow model as dominant; Grab five things from your closet, don't know who made them, where they are from or how much they are worrth. Let's take em to the roadshow and see which one wins the lottery. This is a formula for disappointment, even if one of your swords turns out to be valuable. Study what you have, learn all that you can about the smith and if the blade does not convince folks that the tang is signed by your guy do not be surprised if the shina does not pass it or give it the same attribution. Take the attribution and other info and go back to the books, ask yourself what did they see that you didn't? Learn all that you can about this other school and try to prove their attribution correct. If you are not convinced then use your new found knowledge to dissect and disprove their ideas. Have the blade restored and polished to highlight the features that you think it has, a good polisher will tell you if you are on the right track. Submit a sword that they cannot see as the work of anyone else and see your study validated. Submit swords that no one is quite sure of and most likely you will see that reflected in the attribution. Nothing is more gratifying than seeing a sword, knowing in your heart what it is and removing the tsuka to see the very name you had in mind. Even more so is when you own the sword and all who see it make the same call before revealing the signature. This is the kind of collector we often see in Japan, he knows what he has and does not need the paper. But we do need papers, for validation, for insurance, for record keeping and for our families... If you get a wonky attribution you have to ask what was wonky with the sword, what did they see and how can I get them to see what I see. If study of the sword is what it is all about, shinsa is a joy. If turning a quick profit is the idea then slot machines are probably more profitable. mho -t

Fair enough - Speaking strictly of Koto blades then absent a signature the length and shape are the only indicators. In which case I would defer to the Japanese and I think we'll find that in times where the two (tachi,uchi-gatana) were used in large numbers concurrently most are designated katana. As for the funbari question, I think this also would seem to be your personal opinion since I hold that the accepted theory for the existance of funbari is just as I stated and there is no other. and since we are writing in English we are basically "misspelling" all the Japanese words anyway so I wouldn't worry about it too much... -t David, you and I and Keith may have a good grasp on the subject but all of us have an obligation to new students of the sword to dispel myth and misinformation. It is for them that we care.

Keith - With all due respect I have to say that you are wrong on several points. I will start with this; "Given that anything mounted as a tachi after the mid Edo period was not seriously intended for use on the field of battle, and was in effect either a court or dress sword, a katana style blade in a tachi mounting was adequate but not in the true sense a functional tachi." Guaranteed when a sword comes out of a scabbard it is functional, against armour or silk, and it does not matter that the saya is curving up or down.If I wear a katana on horseback am I defenseless? Though there were few major engagements after 1600 Shinto swords were used and were decidely functional. Still are. Style of usage is a factor but not the deciding factor. Absent a signature the things that make a tachi are shape, age and mounts. Absent mounts, and great age the shape can give us clues but in cases where the answer is not clear organizations like the NBTHK, and NTHK call the blade a katana. "Tachi largely as fashion" It is not clear from your post but one assumes you are speaking of Shinto period swords mounted as tachi. The mounts may have been fashion but the blades were real weapons.They did not get much use it is true but they were seen as valid weapons otherwise we would not see schools of their use preserved to this day. "Funbari" A much misused and misunderstood term. It is a spreading of the blade just at the base in the area of the habaki-moto and machi. It is a very delicate thing to see and is present on the oldest blades, including early tanto. It has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of cutting one was doing. Funbari is a hold-over trait from the earliest days of sword construction where the smith made the machi a little more robust to better weather the tempering process. I feel certain we have done this all before but think of it like this; Swords signed tachi-mei are tachi Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords signed katana-mei are tachi ubu mumei Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords are tachi suriage swords signed tachi-mei are tachi Osuriage mumei Kamakura/Nanboku-cho swords are katana (but one must always image them as tachi) Muromachi blades are more difficult absent all other factors a blade may be called tachi if the length and sugata suggest it but in most cases would be conservatively termed a katana If any blade was mounted as a tachi prior to 1868 it was "used" as a tachi and can correctly be called such - there is no Japanese term for a "mismounted katana". One needs to be prepared to think of these terms as addressing the blade alone and the blade when mounted. -t

Tôken is an abbreviation of the Taisho book "Katana no Kenkyu" Sôran is as you say Tôken Sôran - references where more info may be found on this smith. The parentheses quote a sayagaki 鞘書き not sure what the connection is, could Kunitada be another name this smith used, a student or is this a typo? -t

and so it is! 柊Hiiragi - thank you Moriyama-san - This narrows things down to just nine or ten families, two of which were daimyo, Ôseki and Ichihashi. Neither of which are in my copy of the Taisei Bukan... -t

and John I would call it Ôkissaki, has more to do with the placement of the yokote than overall dimensions I am thinkin. -t

Ray et al - The Kashiwa (oak leaf) was used from ancient times as a dish or wrapper for food. In Japan it was used to wrap offerings to the gods so early on it became a design motif for shinto shrines (Ise and Atsuta) and was later adopted as a mon for priestly families. There are Single leaf mon up to nine leaf, though no 6 or 7, the most common being three leaf (mitsuba) mon. Kasai Kiyoshige was rewarded with Governship of Ôshû by Yoritomo in Bunji 5 nen. At the celebration he found that 3 oak leaves had fallen into his sake cup and from this he adopted the mitsuba Kashiwa mon. The first known example of this mon being used by a member of the Buke. The Taisei Bukan of Kaei 4 lists only two lords who used the two leaf kashiwa mon but neither using both mon as seen on this saya. My little Mon dictionary list more than 25 samurai families that used this mon since it was first used in 1189. If its period the fact that you have two mon makes it much more likely that you could pin this down to a single family but without some serious reference material it is still a long shot... -t