Toryu2020

Eric I am very interested in your photo, I am currently researching a bokuto that looks very much the same as the straight swords on the top of the rack. The large tsuba suggests Ono-ha Itto-ryu would you know if these are associated with any particular ryuha? or would you know which part of Japan they were found in? any help appreciated, -t

A reputable dealer, online and off. -t

Tachi-uo?

Dave R has the right idea - we need to collect more images, more examples and I think we are well on the way. Masashige san - the term Yokohama-mono comes to mind, flashy cheap objects sold to foreigners. Swords were certainly part of this and we are told that after the haito rei and Seinan no Ran, things Japanese were discarded and things western were adopted wholesale often without real understanding of their use and meaning. I will have to dig a bit to find references to cite, I have heard this so often repeated that I cannot recall where I first encountered it. I have a strong memory of Albert Yamanaka describing cartloads or barrels of swords he saw for sale or that he himself helped schlep. I believe this is in his newsletters. John Yumoto may also have mentioned something like this. Another interesting question to come out of this discussion, I shall have to dig around to see if I can indeed come up with quotes to support my contention. -t

All - The problem with these being "arsenal" pieces for me is the newness of them. When they do show age, I can easily believe they are 100 years old but not 300. I find it hard to imagine a han of any size with the resources to maintain a large stash of swords but too cheap to get decent same, tsukaito and tsuka for their swords. Rather I think Chris C is on to something - indeed after the restoration we hear tales of cart loads of swords being sold to foreigners on the docks of Yokohama. Were I an enterprising sword dealer with boxes of rusty, bent and badly suriage'd swords, sitting next to boxes of old tsuba and saya, I might be tempted to slap all the pieces together to resemble swords and sell them off as "rebellion" swords. The question remains, why have these types not been cataloged in any Japanese reference? Has any of the many distinguished members here ever seen one of these in Japan? I think this is a perfect area of study for the western student - I think in Europe and America we can see more of the type and if we can post and catalog the images here we might get at the OP's question of what are the variations, similarities and differences. What besides the seeming slapdash nature of these suggests Kyushu, Satsuma or the Seinan Senso? -t

Ian et al - I can agree that these look very much like the swords illustrated, however has anyone seen examples that show the age that would accrue on something made in the Muromachi jidai? Why have the National museum, Sasama and every other source completely ignored these if they were in fact part of the kit of a Sengoku soldier? another schlub hoping to solve the mystery... -t

Robert - Takayama Honten is hands down the best source for books on Budo - they naturally get the odd sword volume on occasion some real gems pop up here. In the same building there is a seller of "Japanese books" that might also have what you are looking for. At the other end of Yasukuni dori near the beginning of the many bookshops there is Ôyashobô which specializes in nothing but the kind of books you are after, they rarely have sword stuff but on occasion I have struck gold there as well. The place you really need to go is Isshindô, they have every book on swords and fittings ever published. For every book you see on the shelf they have four copies in their kura! I dont know how many times I would be in a book shop miles away from Tokyo only to be told "no sword books, Isshindô-san was just here"... Envy you the adventure, -t

Junichi - Good eye there man, and a great set of examples for comparison. Would be interesting to see close ups of the nanako to see how they compare. It is my understanding that shakudo gets its color from the amount of gold versus copper and then a pickling. What I think we are seeing is that all are made of shakudo, however only the mountain and the backs have been "pickled." The silver or shibuichi is applied but I would be surprised to find the mountain was not part of the solid body of the piece. Takes some skill to do this, a tribute to the artists... -t

I think we are confusing Shinto with Shin-shinto if we are talking about modern steels, Western imported steels were a fad at the beginning of the Edo period, and while some argue that the low carbon content made them ideal for heavily carved tsuba the steel was not very good for sword-making. Yasutsugu seems to have used it sparingly in his swords as a kind of novelty, it was never the bulk of the material used to make up a sword. Rather than "new" methods of sword-maing Masahide was arguing for a return to the older methods and with more local flavor. Hence we see many of his students reviving long dormant schools upon returning to their homelands; Dotanuki and Enju to name two. Fukko, a return to the righteous ways of the past, was a popular idea at the time in politics. In the art of sword-making Masahide was arguing for the same thing, in the highly literate Japanese society of the times his ideas would have spread where perhaps even his book and his students did not reach. The country was ripe for revolutions. As for why these dates? Fukunaga gives 1772 to 1912 as the dates for the Shinshinto period, because it was in Taisho 3 nen that Hon'Ami Koson first made the distinction between the Shinto and Shinshinto eras in a publication. The argument was that it was Masahide's call to return to the sword-making of the past that caused the changes and so it should start roughly from the time he began making swords. An old timeline published by the NBTHK some 40 years ago gives Kyoho 3 (1803) as the date when Masahide made his clarion call... -t

I agree Dave but I can also see that they do not want to have a bunch of books bought in, there are maybe several ways they could have split these up; by subject, by author, by era. If youre not careful making up the lots you get stuck with a lot of modern books and not so rare stuff. Also it would take a whole weekend to auction them all in lots of four or five. Since this was the private library of a gentlemen, I think they are hoping some other gentlemen will want to keep it whole for himself. I note that the many reference works on Chinese art that were in this library are not on offer - I suppose we can expect to see those in some future auction... -t

We talk a lot about the importance of books and research on this forum, I would like to point out that there is a tremendous library of books being auctioned here as well. The bulk of these were the personal library of John Yumoto, collected over 50 years study. There are some awesome books here with nearly every important work represented. Will be interesting to see if the book buyers come out... -t

Thats pretty special Grey - nice find! -t

Tiaan - You have the opportunity to use any name you want, do you have a nickname? An art name? An aesthetic goal that can be rendered in a single word? Many Japanese and Chinese artists retird from the world, took vows or became lay-priests and took the name if their hermitage EG; Sekishusai,Hakuryushi, Kanzan or Suiken. Stay away from translation and stick to the heart! -t

Clearly for a yari-naoshi tanto, A shame the is no blade... -t

Jon - A beautiful piece. Cant tell you much other than i love it! Would love to see more pictures. -t

Well, once again they have taken one of the most exciting stories in history and managed to remove all the drama from it. Would love to see more of the forensics, almost cringed my face off listening to how they dumbed everything down to "Emperor vs Shogun", "the battle of the gorges", "The battle of Kamakura beach." Interesting cameo by Yamamura Tsunahiro. Love this story and loved walking the streets in the footsteps of this history... -t

a few things that caught my eye...

Didn't have time to take a lot of snaps - very busy in the shinsa room One of our customers lost his sword bag in the shinsa room - probably packed into another persons bag/box by mistake - below is pictured a very similar item - do contact us if you arrived home with an extra bag... -t

Allan - Do you have the kanji for your titles? Do you know which Abe we might be looking for? Would love to help but need more info...

Fukunaga Suiken on the origins and early years of the NTHK - http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/NTHK.htm -t @shinsa in San Francisco...

All - Online registrations for the 2013 West Coast Shinsa have now closed - If you are coming to the Taikai and you have swords for submission come see us in the shinsa room Friday after 1100 and we will see if we can squeeze you in. Looking forward to seeing everyone there! -t

Of course seeing the "ten", Ho now seems more likely. -t

My thinking was Shunan 秀南 but i wanted to consider a title for the image before positing any name... -t

David - Could we also see a picture of the whole painting? -t

Mr Hughes - I should be interested to know about how much having a "window" polished would cost? I have a sword that I consider might be a good candidate for this treatment. any help appreciated, -t