Tavroch

This is about the Kanemoto Wakizashi I purchased from Aoi-Art a while back (http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3269). Let me first of all say that it exceeds my expectations: I'm still very much in love with the shape and there is a lot of features to study. There's also a few things I have questions about. So let me post some pictures and I invite you to comment on them: First some pictures of the surface grain: To be continued...

Carlo, I was just about to tell you I found the Yasutsugu on that site. So I wasn't halucinating; the original link was to that blade a moment or two? Thank you anyway. And thank you Jacques; that's another one to bring to the attention of the NT-project people. To recap: I'm aware of five blades made using Namban Tetsu so far, all of them by Yasutsugu. - The one from Mr. Jinsoo Kim's site. - The one at Nihonto Antiques Carlo mentioned. - The one Jacques just mentioned, on the Ginza Choshuya site. - A Yari and a Katana by Yasutsugu available to the NT-project in The Netherlands. Counting the Aiguchi Ian mentioned we're at six, but I think we should leave that one out for reasons already discussed. B.t.w. Ian: do you happen to know who the smith was that made the Aiguchi?

Okay Brian. You're right of course. I got carried away a bit, sorry. @ Carlo: um... I'm afraid the first link was changed after you posted it. But that's a nice tsuba indeed, and that's the kind of things I was talking about when I said: "but I'd still be interested in pictures of extant blades made of Namban Tetsu". So thank you. Keep em coming. And thank you for the effort, Ian. If anyone stumbles upon the pictures Ian was referring to: please do post them. And here I mean the ones from the ToKen Exhibition catalogue, not the ones from the Arms and Armour Journal. Unless you first got permission to post them of course. The Aiguchi might not be what you can call a real Nihonto; I'd still be very interested.

Carlo, Any blades made of Wootz would do for a starter. But I already found some myself, so let me post them to show you what I mean: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html http://www.mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www.mse.iastate.edu/static/files/verhoeven/muse.pdf http://www.mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www.mse.iastate.edu/static/files/verhoeven/steelresearchsize2.pdf http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=0012A7E9-1A06-44A3-840C-650820B923C But this one's not for free apparently, so if someone has already got it and is willing to share, please PM me. If not, I might go get it anyways, but it would go against my principles: the internet should be a source of FREE information. And your second point: I know they don't look any different, but I'd still be interested in pictures of extant blades made of Namban Tetsu. Knowing that it's made from Dutch steel made me look closer at the Yasutsugu from Mr. Jinsoo Kim too. Not only the Nakago becomes more interesting in this knowledge. To me it makes a difference anyway.

Thank you Brian. (And Carlo, Jeez guys, not so fast, I can't keep up!) I was in the process of summing it up much the way you just did. You beat me to it and I totally agree. Anyone who did a search on Wootz must have discovered by now that this is still a rather controversial subject on which the opinions vary widely, but mostly based on very flimsy "evidence". See for example the Wikipedia-article about Wootz. So what I would like to suggest we do here, is try to find references to the really existing undisputed evidence, if there is any. I'd be interested in pictures and descriptions of extant blades made of Wootz, for a starter. To get back on topic: I'd be interested in pictures of extant blades made of Namban Tetsu also. Like the one Ian aquired for the Royal Armouries. And like the one on Mr Jinsoo Kim's site. I'm not really interested in speculations, unless they are based on undisputed evidence (like the one Carlo just posted); I can do my own speculations based on assumptions well enough thank you. Let's first of all try to keep to the facts.

You're talking about some real treasures there Ian. You wouldn't happen to have some pictures of them that you are willing to share, would you? Especially of the Aiguchi. Sounds like you have a dream job. If you want I can bring you into contact with the people from the Namban Tetsu project here in Holland. Because if you want to take this any further its out of my league. And there's that Wootz again. If you can point me to some accessible articles about Wootz steel I'd be much obliged. If I understand correctly, and if it was indeed Wootz steel they were importing, the Japanese unwittingly destoyed the unique properties of the Wootz by treating it like the steel they were familiar with (i.e. Tamahagane/Orishigane)? But this is mere speculation, right? Would you care to tell us who is doing this speculating? Any references? I for one would be very interested. Don't you love it how everything seems to be linked? The Dutch, Adams, the first Shogun, iron, Nihonto and now Wootz comes up. I think I'm going to apply for an extra life, because I think I'm gonna need it.

Hello Ian, Thank you for the pointer to Wm Adams' letters. I've been reading those as we speak, but haven't come to the part you refer to yet. Did a search in the text for the term "steill", and shure enough there it is: on page 300 from "More Queer Things About Japan", a text from 1905, available here http://www.archive.org/details/morequeerthingsa00sladrich, for anyone who's interested. I'll bring this to the attention of the NT-project people too. If this also is new to them, I think they should start paying us for the research we're doing for them.

Thank you for checking Jean. I got nearly the exact same answer from Mr. Kazushige. I think I should be glad if Mr. Kazushige doesn't raise the price now that he's getting all this attention and questions about the Kanemoto. Now all there's left to do is scrape together the funds and pay the good man. What's your advice on payment? Creditcard's the least fuss I think. Or is there a good reason for going through all the hassle of making a bank payment to their Japan based bank? The security of their orderform should be thight enough, or should I mail them the number in batches? Newbie questions, I know. I'm not new at paying foreign sellers by creditcard, but I would definitely be new at booking money to a Japan based bank. I thank you all for the help and input I recieved in making up my mind on this one. If you like I will keep you posted how this turns out. B.t.w: Is anyone else having trouble surfing their site recently? Is a major revamp going on or something, or is it just me?

Dutch iron update: The plot thickens... Mr. Jinsoo Kim mentioned the term "Mantetsu" in relation to his Yasutsugu Katana. Which apparently is a term used to describe blades made from steel from Manchuria: "Okiyo Isshin Mantetsu Kore Wo Saku". And this apparently is a Mei frequently found on blades from WWII. This, in combination with the Kyu-gunto mountings it was in before, did make the people from the NT-project here in Holland wonder. I'm curious to see where this goes. And now you can let me have it Stephen

@ Mr. Schiller: I am very sorry; I didn't mean to offend anyone. @ Stephen: I am sorry if I have offended you; this was not my intention at all. I assure you that I am grateful for any comments or advice you have for me regarding Nihonto. I didn't realise my last remark would come across the way it obviously did, I'm sorry.

Thank you, but I'm aware of that, and I think the people from the Namban Tetsu Project should be aware of that also. I'd be highly surprised if they weren't.

Another update on the Namban Tetsu Project: Mr. Jinsoo Kim answered my email and I relayed his answer to Mr. and Mrs. Duindam: (I hope it's allright to quote Mr. Jinsoo Kim here.) Anyway, you can see the result for yourselves: http://www.jp-sword.com/files/blade/yasutsugu/yasutsugu.htm

I see. Okay, fair enough. You may consider this topic closed then.

Still no clue about e-sword.jp as a seller though... Has anybody ever done business with them before? And? What was it like? Was it goor for you too? I'm not really interested in that Tanto anymore, still haven't got an answer to my email for one thing, but I sure still would like to know if they are reliable etc. Are they worth checking now and again? Maybe it's time to set up a nice list of known Nihonto sellers. One where every member here can vote on points like 'reliability', 'customer support', 'pricing', 'quality' , 'complaints', etc. Is this an idea?

To get back to the topic, and especially @ Paul Martin: I promised to keep you updated on the Namban Tetsu Project. Well, I contacted Mr. and Mrs. Duindam, and made them aware of the Yasutsugu I discovered at Mr. Jinsoo Kim's site. They told me the existence of this Yasutsuga was new to them. They also told me a Katana and a Yari by Yasutsugu are already available to the Namban Tetsu Project. So maybe we did help the Namban Tetsu Project a bit. I wish I were a rich man; I would certainly buy this Yasutsugu and donate it to them. (Hint, hint, say no more, know what I mean, notch, notch...) If you haven't already, I recommend all of you to read about their project. It's got some interesting twists and turns, like: how the hell did this Namban Tetsu get to Japan in the first place? And how about "De Liefde"? Didn't I hear the name of this boat somewhere before? Does the name William Adams ring a bell? You know: the one the TV-series Shogun was based upon... And where did the military supremacy of Ieyasu come from again? All of these questions and many more will be answered in the next episode of... But no kidding, read this: http://www.tokensugita.com/NT.htm

It's like I said:

Would you care to expand on that please?

Oh come on... don't tell me I've been training for nothing!

You guys should try Babelfish online translation: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Covers this quite nicely if you can read through the pidgin English it generates.

I was interested in this Tanto: http://www.e-sword.jp/sale/0810_2020syousai.htm But I think I have made up my mind about an entirely different blade already. Unless of course you are going to make me an offer I cannot refuse.

Thank you very very much Jean! I'm afraid I contributed to the confusion a bit myself by mixing up ubu and suriage; sorry about that. It all makes a lot more sense now. Don't commit Seppuku yet please! I might be in need for your advice again in the future. But if it comes to that: we train Kaishaku regularly in Iaido-class I think this settles it for me: I sent Mr. Kazushige an email asking him to hold it for me. Any advice on payment methods to their Japan based bank? B.t.w: can I mention you in my emails to Mr. Kazushige? Another question comes to my mind: What do you think of having a spartan set of Koshirae made for this Kanemoto for display? Would you happen to know any reputable Koshirae makers here in Europe? Or do you think this would be a total waste of money? I can't help trying to imagine what this blade would have looked like in it's first set of fittings. Again: I cannot thank you enough; I'm in your debt.

Ooph... okay... that both reassures me and confuses me more. Would you like to repeat your first post, but now the way you intended? And please do comment on my remarks in my answer if you would be so kind.

Thank you for the info Mr. Kanetoyo. I'm still waiting for an answer to my email to Masayuki Hirako from e-sword about the Kanekage Tanto though. I do hope he contacts me again soon, because I have some more questions about that Tanto.

@ Paul Martin: Sorry for my late reaction. Thank you for the info; I am already aware of the Namban Tetsu Project, but I will try to contact Mr. Duindam as you suggest. Maybe he, or someone else involved with this project, will be interested in the Yasutsugu I mentioned in my first post. Thank you again, and I will keep you informed here about any news on this.

Thank you Jean; I am honored by your advice. As I am sure you are aware, I am not an expert. I like the Kanemoto because at first glance it looks a bit flashy, but if you look at it closer (and longer) it seems rather subtle: The Hamon is of course obscured by the Hadori polish (Kesho togi?), but I am assured by Mr. Kazushige from Aoi-art that the Hamon is very visible under the right lighting conditions. This effect of the subtly present/obscured Hamon is one of the things I like about this blade. Would you please instruct me on the points you mention: "- Suguta typical for late Muromachi (probably post 1550)" Why would this be a negative feature? "- Typical Kanemoto lineage style (sanbonsugi showing) kodai generation as stated" By this you mean that it was made by one of the later generations of the Kanemoto lineage? So it is not as high rated as one made by the first generation; I understand that. But the subtly visible/obscured Sanbonsugi Hamon is one of the things I like about this blade as I mentioned earlier. "- and above all : ubu Nakago" This is where I am in need of instruction: how can you tell? Just because of the second Mekugi-ana? The Hamon seems to end pretty much at the present Hamachi and the Bo-hi seems to end where it should also. If you extend the Mune-line it ends awfully close to the butt of the Nakago. I guess your experience tells you otherwise, but is there any chance you could be wrong about this? Can I deduce from your last remark that you think it's overpriced? Or that it would be difficult to sell again without losing too much of the investment? So what is your opinion on the Kanekage? Especially: what do you think of the crack in the Nakago? It is only visible on one side. There is also some loose forging visible on the opposite side near the Hamachi. Are both of these flaws called Ware? What about the strange nicks in the top Mekugi-ana, do they affect the value of the blade? Do you think this is an ubu Nakago too? And again: what is the reputation of the seller: e-sword.jp? Please correct me where I am wrong: I am very eager to learn.