kaigunair

Here's the format I settled on for Vol 3. I added some literal translations to each school's name, just because it interests me. A few of them I didn't think the translations made sense so I didn't put them.

Thanks Brian. We could use volunteers, as it is just me and one other board member who is doing the translating. Its actually going quicker than I thought, thanks to Markus' great books which make getting the correct name translations into english so much easier. Finished Vol 3 and onto Vol 4. If people don't want do any actual translating, if they can type kanji or have a good OCR to Japanese text software, just getting the kanji in electronic form is over 75%, maybe more of the work, at least for me. After finishing the Indexes of the 8 Vols, the hope would be to get the even more useful picture index translated (at least I think that's what's in the pages just after each book index). I may skip to Vol 8 to see if there is some sort of table in there like in the wakayama 3 vol series. Else, the project would be to create one for the entire 8 volume series. THAT would definitely need much more man power. So on the plus side, translating is going faster that I thought due to all the resources online and offline. Downside is, my kanji retention is going down because I don't have to work for each kanji like I had to in the past.... Maybe there needs to be some sort of incentive to get members to volunteer to translate....any ideas?

Hi David, Sure, but it might be a while before we get to the proof reading stage. The other member has let me know he's very much on board with sharing all the translations.

FYI, the other member let me know he would be happy to share his translations of the first indexes of VOL 1(finished) and VOL 2 (pending). We could also use proof readers to check translations as neither of us are native speakers.

Looking to see if there are any volunteers who might be interested in corroborating with a translation of wakayama's 8 volume set of Toso Kodogu Koza 刀装 小道具 講座. This of course means you own or have access to a copy. Another member had completed Vol 1 (Tsubako) and is working on Vol 2 (Goto School). I'm working on Vol 3 (Edo Kinko Vol Top). This got me thinking how great it would be to see if there were more members who might be interested in working on translating the indexes of each volume. There are actually 2 indexes/legends in each volume. We're working on the first and less detailed indexes (for now). I'm taking a little more complicated route of trying to get the kanji of the original text along with the translation, but just an english translation would work fine. This is a sample of how I'm going about it: This was done in Word 2012 on a Mac, after downloading Apple's free Japanese/chinese typing language system software. I actually use the trackpad to try to write out and search for the correct kanji in chinese. Harder ones I use a combination of various free online Japanese kanji websites, as well as google translate. Having Markus Sesko's book also makes searching for the right kanji + english pronounciation a whole lot easier. Send me a PM or post to let me know if you're interested in coordinating efforts. Thanks in advance! ps: At this point, I can only offer up my translation of Vol 3, once it is complete. I did not do the work on Vol 1 and 2 so I cannot currently share those.

a lovely piece, juyo level attributed to the 3rd goto master?!?! Not sure what the theme is other than cherry blossoms. I can't seem to make out the brush or sumi stone per their english translation...

That is nice!

Just got my copy in. (Thanks Grey!). Before I go trying to translate the table of contents for each of the 8 volumes, was wondering if someone had already put out a partial translation or index of the contents in English? Thanks in advance!

Hmmm...the more I look at the holes, does look like some sort of fastener was there for a while. wear pattern to the iron and brass work around the holes. Maybe it was displayed as part of something, perhaps suspended within something like a wooden frame (would have similar asethics to a carved Japanese screen, a ranma, perhaps?). Could account for why the condition is so nice as it didn't spend its entire life mounted?

Color of the brass looks so rich. Amazing that the rope around the nakago ana is so intact! Great pics of a great piece.

Just an FYI for anyone in San Francisco this weekend, the annual Cherry Blossom festival is going on this weekend and next. http://sfcherryblossom.org/index.php/schedule-of-events/saturday-sunday-april-13-14 The Nor Cal Japanese Sword Club (NCJSC) has a booth/room in the East mall (Union bank side, near the Daiso lower level store). There is another group that often sets up outside, but this is NOT associated with the NCJSC. Growing up, it was always a favorite part of the festival for me come by a see the tables of nihonto and tosogu, esp iron tsuba. This time I get to hang out behind the tables! Drop by and say hello. I'll be wearing a jacket with my family kamon and name of a famous film bushi who shares it....

Nice! What is considered early for kinko such as this (Early edo, momoyama)? Does san mai also refer to a particular style? With the nanako work, reminds of mino kinko work... All the books I'm going through start with iron schools and don't talk much about early kinko schools. Been looking at lots of threads on how to tell if iron is old, but any pointers to identify early kinko works? Thanks in advance for any advice.

I never understood the appeal of these type 3 mounts until I owned one. The "feel" of them doesn't come across well in photos which for some reason make them easily mistaken for NCO and the late war mounts. If I had to make a comparison, I think they are akin to higo mounts, being more bushi and stoic in nature and feel than the other contemporary mounts at the time, but still very good quality. Very neat to see that mon menuki, but doesn't suprise me one bit. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks John.

Thanks Henry! Totally didn't register that the mounted figure would be pre-date the term samurai. Wonder if there was an equivalent early term for bushi? Boris, do you recall what the museum referred to the figure as? I can't seem to find a museum website (or its associated bookstore ) anywhere.... Love how this thread had gone....

Very neat thread and pics! Boris, that's a great photo of a mounted samurai. I guess I should have paid more attention last nite: I went and ordered the Fraser museum book thinking better pics might be in there but I now see it was from a Japanese museum . Oh well, hopefully a useful book nonetheless!

4&5: Not sure if hamamono, maybe better called Shiiremono? There's a recent thread on these. I have a similar tsuba which I think the workmanship is pretty nice. Admittedly, not meant to be mounted, hence the small/decorative nakago ana, but I like the design and execution. Wouldn't mind having that one at all , but I see how it might not appeal to the iron tsuba fans....

Very nice piece! Is it possible that the item being held by this temple guardian once had a blade? I see some wear marks on the cheek which a blade might have been attached? Or is it supposed to be a scroll? Pics of the guardiars from the Todai-Ji temple, carved during the kamakura period.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nio_g ... n_Nara.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:T%C5% ... statue.jpg

Thanks John. That is a very helpful!

Hehe, or perhaps bosozoku? There's an anime called "Sengoku Basara"....check out the Date Masamune character... But back to the item in question, I'd have to disagree unless this turns out to be a gendai-heisei fake. I think it has merit for being such an oddball. Even if only a meiji export piece, still would be an interesting commentary on what was going on in Japan during that time period. If this is Edo....brings up a lot of interesting questions in my mind as to why? Tom's question was right on: if we only knew who has it, then we could study the piece more thoroughly and possibly settle a few questions, ans possibly bring up a new slew of them. I don't really see why its so easily being written off as being worthless of study, but I'll concede its maybe because I'm a neophyte I don't know any better...

The thread title was mean to be "why tosogus shouldn't drink and mount", in reference to the weird places these particular tosogu have placed themselves. Wasn't making reference to whoever mounted these tosogu, but I can see how that could be taken. My mistake. Maybe should have just gone with: Look, an unusual koshirae... Sorry Tom, was just something I came across online at a website. The site indicated it was already sold So I have no idea who bought it. When I first saw it, I put it in my files as a funny oddity. Thought it might be fun to post it for opinions on the forum since things had been a little slow... I don't think the kozuka's in the handle contain any blades; non-functional IMO....just some kozuka's used as menuki. I thought that perhaps the gold dragons at the kojiri were the round menuki types re-purposed. It was just an odd ball thing...was thinking it had potential for a little neat thread, and alittle chuckle. Christian, I don't know what online translator you are using, but again, I'm trying to give a lot of leeway with your posts. Other than sounding , I'd be very careful using online translation software to try to express anything less than a direct point. sarcasm doesn't appear to translate very well. Most likely to get lost in translation and someone like me might take it the wrong way and get .

Alright Christian, I'm gonna give you a lot of leeway and assume there's much to said about what is lost in translation.... anyhow, didn't want this to turn into a Nihonto thread. would rather focus on tosogu. seems like the papers add some "validity" to the mounts, that they are possibly older, but the blade papers really shouldn't. but here it is for people who are interested in confirming the papers of the blade mounted in this unusual koshirae....

best I could do for now...

Ouch! The blade itself was papered, so not complete frivolity? It would have been more interesting if the mounts were... I wish I had better pics of the mounts but not mine. From the larger size pics, they look pretty decent. Will see if I can get better images of the mounts for those who provide serious answers.... :D

...Or "The case of the confused mounts".... Seems like the forum's been alittle slow, so thought I'd post a pic of this most interesting koshirae. How many atypical positions of mounts can you spot? Quality of the mounts looks good. First time I've seen such creative mounting... Enjoy!