kaigunair

Great idea David! Not my area of study so no guesses from me, but will watching this thread and noting the interest level.

Just wanted to throw out another big to Mike and Ford for posting great examples. I appreciate the time and effort they contributed to the thread to make it all the more useful to use neophyets! I don't think there are any "optical illusions" in the posting of these great examples, and its somewhat counterproductive to introduce this thought this without any support. I believe the question was whether such refined uniformity was the result of a multi-punch tool vs an individual punch. From older threads on this subject, I believe the consensus is that a multi-punch tool would result in less precise nanako work. I agree that this detail of work is almost unbelievable to behold, especially in this age where we are led to believe that precision and details can only be obtained and attributed to machines. This is only exacerbated by the fact that we want everything to move at light speed, while such skill requires years of tedious and repetitive training, on top of inherent talent. Its sad, but the loss of our ability to discern quality and craftsmanship means we aren't willing to pay for it either, and so we more easily give our cash over to people who produce nothing (marketers and financiers) rather than support the craftsmen who produce these works of art, thereby enabling them to achive higher levels of superior and awe inspiring workmanship. As a community of collectors, perhaps if for every 9 edo-era or earlier items we collected, we sought out 1 item from a current working craftsman whose work we appreciated or saw potential with, we'd enable more such craftsmen to enter or expand their skill sets, thereby adding more exquisite pieces to this body of work and gaining more insight and knowledge into the art we appreciate so much. Wouldn't that be grand?

Update: We've finished and formatted the index translations for books 3,4,5 & 7. We have books 1&2 translated but need to add back original kanji and format for consistency. This leaves books 8 and 6 remaining. We're still in need of someone who has a set themselves and is able to do the proof reading. I definitely have some questions about how to properly translate some of the more repetitive kanji but which have similar meanings, like the kanji that can translate to either school, branch, head or sect. Please send me a PM if you fit the bill and can help. Thanks.

Oooh...if only the mon were slightly different.... Nice nonetheless...

Ford, you need to update this thread with the news of your award!

Boris, look forward to meeting you in person at the SF show and learning more about early fittings! Pete, well, don't I have egg on my face on that "attribution" . I have not paid any attention to the tomei school, but will look it up when I have the chance. There really isn't much good advice on how someone wading into this area should proceed, what schools to study, etc...no established coursework per se even if someone did spend $$$ on books. And some times it does feel like pulling teeth from those "in the know" to get such an education . Its threads like this that make this forum so great for new students like myself. The controversy around "Ezo" fittings will be forever burned into memory even thought I am yet interested in this area of fittings. I am always very thankful for those more knowledgeable tosogu students and sensei's who regularly post and pm great insight, ESPECIALLY when they disagree! I'm sure they honor their various sensei's, as I hope to do so should I continue to collect and study for as many years. In the mean time, gotta build up that thick skin and get ready for the next egg...... (looking at how this thread went, I still find it funny how I ended up being the first response on this thread, and I did wait a while hoping for someone to chime in. again, props to Brian for maintaining such a great forum ) edit: how ironic, just finishing up the index translation of wakayama Vol 5, and guess who I found has a few pages at the end of the book starting on page 250.....awabo is definitely nea-to!

Thanks mike. I really appreciate how you post exquisite pieces an even more so when you help neophytes like myself with examples like these.

Wow, Pete, really great info on cultural norms and usage context! Didn't realize that even the pleasure district had a dress-code. Very cool info.

Very interesting! I appreciate the insight into the manufacturing process as well as the debate surrounding "Ezo" fittings. I haven't studied early fittings much because I'm still so enamoured with the machibori late edo schools and pieces. Pete, those menuki look superb. I'd think definitely a major school, possibly solid gold. If not goto, then some famous offshoot like yoshioka?

Hi Curtis, if by grapes, you mean the paulownia flower buds, in certain other military gunto/gendaitor mounts, the number indicates rank/status. The more the hanging flowers, the higher the rank. Not sure how old this practice goes back. I don't think this particular tsuba is directly tied to reflecting rank, but maybe used it more since it was associated with the imperial family as was a pretty common crest? In a similar vein, my family has used the maru-ni san ken katabami crest, but a version with larger ken blades than your avatar (but I usually go after anything similar). Does your family also use this crest?

I have no horse in this race, but I've bought from the website operators in the past and found them both very helpful and honest. I'd like to point out that the description discusses in detail the production processes that went into these, and specifically states that there was some casting/die use in the production of these menuki and then finished with carving afterwards by a non-master smith. The explanation attributes this to a type of mass production that was common to this early period. Seems like that was fully disclosed in the explanation... So I guess it would be interesting to know how to kantei if die stamped menuki are early vs. those which are actually meiji period made. So examples of die-stamp Muromachi period pieces would be the comparable, not completely hand stamp examples...

If you're talking about polishing services, mr hoshino is not traditionally trained. He also sets up a knife polishing booth in jtown from time to time. He also runs the SF ninja society. You can find more detailed experience doing a google search. That club is also NOT the ncjsc or Northern California Japanese Sword Club which was founded by Yumoto sensei and which holds the token Kai sword show in August.

Well, I'll go ahead and respond since no one has yet. I think most of the papered menuki are usually NOT ensuite. So you can examine the back/sides for signatures, as well as the stud which is a kantei point. Also, many tanto and tachi have non-wrapped hilts, which allows better access to the details. For those menuki which are wrapped, I would assume attribution is based on looking at the other fittings, esp the f/k and determining if the menuki match the workmanship of those signed/more easily accessible items. Lastly, there seems to be some body of knowledge when attributing the unsigned early Goto fittings to particular smiths, so I'm sure the same can be applied to what little window the tsuka wrapping affords to the menuki. Along the same vein, I think there's a reason why the Goto didn't make tsuba in the beginning and why there's such a term as mitsukoromono. Maybe the wrapping earlier exposed more of the menuki, while later on, when the focused shifted to soft metal and tsubas got more "bling", it was more acceptable to turn to the more typical wrapping style we encounter today, and that covers more of the menuki....

that's really great...being able to reunite a blade with its koshirae. Always nice to see history kept together. Too many items separated just to make a buck. And to keep up with it for four years!

Wow Franco, that's great!!!! Thanks so much!!!! Is there a similar diagram that describes different shapes of the single nanako itself? I found an older thread that talked about the Goto using a crescent shaped head vs round.... Gotta get that book!

Update: Sorry, looks like ludolf was talking about the original tsuba! I'd appreciate any comments on the kozuka as this mei kantei is much harder than I thought. So does the ume & broom kozuka's "nao" character. The top "t" of the nao character also correctly slants to the left side. Hi Ludolf, in your examples, there are several significant different variations of the kao. The b&w example on the lower left seems to be a very close match to the kozuka's, yes My focus was more on the "gawa" character as well as the two little strokes on top of the kao (they form the Japanese い as stated in wakayama). Upon magnification, the kao in the kozuka does have the upstroke curve of the い in it - it is very light. The stroke patterns are a very very good match to one of the types of kaos listed in wakayama as well as your example. In the "gawa" character, the kozuka does follow the long-short-long. It very much matches your upper right sample. I was concerned about the height and curvature of the first (left most character). However, in the wakayama samples it shows both lower and upper placement, as well as curvature of the left most stroke. Now unless wakayama likes to place many gimie signatures in both his volumes, I am learning that signatures are not as "set in stone" throughout a smith's career as I once thought, even the kaos. I am trying to analysize the workmanship of the piece itself, and not just the signature. I do appreciate the many pics, but I don't quite see how they conclusively show this is gimie. Now if the workmanship was of low quality and the signature was as off as in the tsuba example, I would definitely agree with you!

hmmm....maybe "Goto Niimakura (後藤新枕)"....

Thanks Ford! I do enjoy studying the workmanship of the piece itself, so not horribly disappointed if it turns out to be gimie. As with another piece I have, mei kantei has gotten me confused. Having both the wakayama 3 and 8, there are a good body of mei examples for naomasa to see, but even between the pictured ones they look very different. On top of that, the baur has one which seems to be specifically mentioned in wakayama as a variant. And another from a UK newsletter which is papered and has similar characteristics. Hence my questions here and about nanako, to try to judge the piece iteself. But for a different thread I guess.....

Hi Cabowen, looks like we were replying at the same time. I'd prefer to think in terms of a good wife whom you'd gladly spend all your $ on and you grow to appreciate more and more as you learn about the finer details, vs the alternatives.... While it is easy to appreciate good nanako, knowing more about the different types and techniques out there is hopefully a step towards connoisseurship.... :D

Hi Barry, I wish I had been able to make it, but the august show will have to do. I'll be there in had with my nex + 16mm macro lense looking for nanako. As much as I appreciate the picture, it is hard to see the details of the individual nanako itself in order to determine which type of nanako it is per the great article posted. It is a lovely circular pattern though! I think it will be a long while before I will be able to afford a goodsuperior nanako tsuba. Plus, the example I"m looknig at is also a kozuka. Fortunately, many of the club members have kozuka where I think it would be difficult to find a circular pattern arrangement on. The article confirms my belief that there is much more detail in "nanako" than most are aware of. I don't recall any of the Japanese dealer websites specifying nanako types, which surpises me. It would be like saying all patterns in a ji are "curley" or "straight". With so many different terms for specific jigane, I thought it strange the same attention isn't paid to "nanako".... a very interesting topic

not to hijack the thread, but does plating vs inlay indicate something significant? Did plating only occur later on (late edo/meiji). I seem to recall something about electroplating (new) vs and older form of lead or mercury, but not sure how old the later form was being used. Very curious as the yanagawa naomasa kozuka I recently picked up appears to be plated...

Franco, this is exactly what I was looking for! Wonderful article. Thanks! Will look to pull it apart and find examples of each type of nanako discussed. Thank you again!

Thanks for the link Brian. Can't believe I missed those threads. I'm still curious if there are different styles and terms for nanako, or is nanako just done one way, like calling something made of shakudo or shibuishi. Are there some nanako more square than circle, sizing (ko-nanako vs nanako like terms for nie). Are there schools that had a trademark style nanako? How about deep vs shallow nanako? Maybe I'm over thinking this area, and there is just nanko done in very tight & straight lines, and nanko that, well, isn't.....

Not sure if this is a can-o-worms but I hope its an appropriate noephyte question.... Looking into the Yanagawa school, I keep reading about the superior nanako ground work on shakudo. I was wondering if there is a set of guidelines regarding how to judge nanako work and how to distinguish between "good" and "superior" nanako work. What are the kantei points? All other factors being consistent, is smaller nanako work better than larger sizes? Are there different nanako patterns (and are they named like patterns in the hamon or ji)? Finally, is there a difference between nanako work that was done before vs after the main designs were carved out or inlayed in? I've read about the nanako preparers who worked for the goto and yokoya smiths, which I interperate to mean the nanako was done prior to the addition of motifs/figures. However, I've seen lots of nanako work that seems to follow the inlayed or carved out designs, implying the nanako was applied after the design. Any insight into this topic and how it affects kantei would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

You'd have to send to to a professional polisher, classically trained. Anything less, and there's a great chance of ruining any intrinsic value of this little tanto. Do a quick search on the forums to get recommendations and read the multitude of cautions against doing anything else. Don't go to heavy on the mineral oil either as it wil gunk up the inside of the scabbard.... Congrats!