kaigunair

Wow, what perspective and insight by Mr. Hamada! Henry, While I have yet caught the bug for older iron tsubas, your example does seem very quaint with a sort of subdued reverence. I'm glad you point out that you appreciate it for what it is, regardless of papers. Since this is such a big name, I do hope that should you go after NBTHK papers in the future, it gets them. The thread was amazing regarding the explanation of known variations and kantei points. So lucky that the forum has so many knowledgable tosogu students! I also didn't know about the NPO NTHK vs NTHK issue. All in all, a very informative thread so just wantedto say thank you for posting up your very interesting tsuba for discussion.

Hi David, Hmmm, I was only pointing out that words were being put into my mouth, which I'm hoping was unintentional. I would ask that you please keep to the subject of the tsuba and don't make this personal. I still think my question regarding silver was a valid one. In the context of this tsuba, there was a comment about the value of silver in the context of dating it. Is this now incorrect? I would think the connection to this tsuba discussion is clear: perhaps it would appear that this tsuba might be dated later than mid-edo, during a time when silver was relatively more common because Japan was being flooded with it? If silver was more common and less expensive, then it would be used in more tosogu, even those of lesser quality. I'm trying to understand how the use of silver in the context of this tsuba points to a mid-edo or earlier date. Feel free to PM me if you think this question is inappropriate...

Hi David, I never said that silver was worth more than gold. What I was questioning was the statement "at the time in Kyoto silver was a very expensive soft metal". I was just wondering at what earlier period was silver not a relatively expensive metal. It appears that there was a later period where silver was more plentiful. I was thinking that perhaps during the the relatively less expensive late bakumatsu period, we would see an increase in the use of silver or shibuichi. I know that there was a period when brass was a relatively expensive material, and later on was not. Was trying to get clarification on the earlier period where silver wasn't as expensive...

John, thanks for the info and the interesting article. Its so positive about Japan, it does make me wonder how factual it is. Also, given the Japanese perchant to "show the best face" to foreigners, I'm not sure how accurate it is to use so many foreigner accounts to describe Edo Japan. At the same time, it makes me wonder how much of the negative imagery of Edo Japan might be due to the post meiji revisionists. But back to the question about gold and silver, based on the article, it looks like these metals might have been much more plentiful in Edo Japan that I had original thought. Much appreciated.

could someone expand on this? I would have thought up until the mid-late edo period silver and gold were both considered precious metals; what would have made silver especially expensive during that particular time period? Towards the end of the edo period, silver became much more plentiful as Europeans took full advantage of the gold/silver exchange rate set by the shogunate which afforded a huge arbitrage opportunity; massive amounts of foreign silver flowed into Japan to be exchanged for gold. Am I missing something here?

Hi John, Thanks for the response. Those results are similar to the translation software I'm using. Problem is, many of the english translations are identical for different kanji, which begs the question why the same character wasn't used in the original Japanese text if it means the same thing. I want to make sure I'm using the best English word in the context of Togosu schools, so any help on the standard diction or translations is what I'm hoping for. After a few days if there are no new revelations, I'll go ahead and make the changes per Mr. Bowen's suggestions...

I initially posted this in the translation section. Cabowen gave a great response, but just wanted to see if there was some consensus before I go and change everything: Original Question: While trying to complete the index translations of Toso Kodogu Koza, I keep running into these kanji which I'm not sure how to translate properly. Any like clarification on these different terms for school, sect, family, branch etc and which is the correct tnaslation would be much appreciated. Here are some of kanji I have questions about, and how I am currently translating them: (派): 横谷一派 – Yokoya School (門人): 横谷派の門人 – Yokoya School Disciples (一派): 義胤と義則一派 – Yoshitane and Yoshinori Sect (家): 佐野家 – Sano School (一門): 一宮一門 – Ichinomiya Sects (一族): 大月家一族 – Otsuki School Household Not sure if I should be using group vs branches vs school vs sect vs household. From Cabowen: (派): school (門人): pupil/student (一派): school (家): family/house (一門): group (一族): family/house Thanks in advance.

Thanks Chris. Looks like I will be making changes to the index translations based on your response. Much appreciated.

While trying to complete the index translations of Toso Kodogu Koza, I keep running into these kanji which I'm not sure how to translate properly. Any like clarification on these different terms for school, sect, family, branch etc and which is the correct tnaslation would be much appreciated. Here are some of kanji I have questions about, and how I am currently translating them: (派): 横谷一派 – Yokoya School (門人): 横谷派の門人 – Yokoya School Disciples (一派): 義胤と義則一派 – Yoshitane and Yoshinori Sect (家): 佐野家 – Sano School (一門): 一宮一門 – Ichinomiya Sects (一族): 大月家一族 – Otsuki School Household Not sure if I should be using group vs branches vs school vs sect vs household. Also looking for someone who has the 8 volume set and can proof read the complete index translations.... Thanks in advance.

:D If Ford's work circa 1994 is being mistaken for akao school, and his 2013 work is winning top prizes in Japan (Natsuo like IMO), we can only imagine where he'll be in another 10 years!!! Go Ford!!!

Very nice george! Plus a matching f/k and kozuka, by soyo?!?!

Beautiful George! (I am curious what design is on the other side?)

Hey Pete, I've dabbled in both audio recording and now photography, and I must say that while I've envied all the pre-digital stuff, the barriers to entry are much easier to surmount. It still costs $$$ to get the better digital equipment. Since I've only played in digital, I was always under the impression that the analog guys would be able to tweek the digital equipment a whole lot better with that foundation; really tap into the possibilities that digital affords. Regardless, thanks for pics of a good quality kata kiri bori piece.

Thanks for sharing Pete. Seems like a top quality piece, but alittle to hard to see the full strengh of the carving in the pics as they are alittle fuzzy (I think it more my monitor though). Was wondering if the underside of the f&k also showed similar signs of additional care/finishing? Would love to see a pic if possible. Love the machi bori pieces!

We're guessing how much you paid? ...hmmm...I'm thinking it was either : a) 1 arm + 1 leg b) someone came up to you at a show saying something like "I found these metal things at a garage sale. The vet's widow said it came back from the war. I even have this paper from the emperor (or tojo) stating its an imperial heirloom. I need to buy a new raidator for my car, so I'll take $300 for it." How close am I? If #2, call me when you need funds to buy radiator for your car....

Thanks Mike for posting this piece, as well as the other pics of the taikan and papers. Really neat to see the research done. I understand that not all Mr. Natsuo's pieces were done to show case his talents. Pieces like this one, a commissioned replacement, show that making a living doing this required taking on requests (from probably influential and rich patrons). I wish the yasuchika pieces were kept with this one, just to see how closely (or not), he followed the original fittings. More importantly, where he deviated from the original work would really be educational. I don't think the original assessments before the signature was revealed have cause to necessarily be revised in light of this being a work by Natsuo (well, maybe one of them ), since this was made as a replacement fitting; he wasn't pulling a design out of his mind's eye but merely trying to match an pre-existing set and style. Really should be evaluated in the context of the original fittings....if those original fittings were in fact genuine yasuchika. I wonder if that's the bigger question here. If a wealthy or perhaps aristocratic/well connected patron asked Natsuo to make a replacement fitting for items which were questionable yasuchika, would Natsuo have said anything knowing the originals were fake? Or would he just have executed the order in deference to the status of the patron? Its amazing that Natsuo kept such detailed records. I hope other current tosogu smiths do this as well, especially on the off chance that they start winning top Gold prizes in recognized Japanese competitions, gaining even wider acknowledgement of their talents and abilities. Do we know anyone like that around here...? :lol:

I like the lacquer work on the saya. The nanako work on the fittings seems decent enough. Maybe a theater use item? Would explain the Noh mask themed tsuba...(I'm not a fan of the tsuba). Hope the blade is something.

Woah, are we talking Natsuo here?

Grey, Ah, didn't occur to me that this could be the "proper" orientation for a bee. Was relying on a more "human" orientation of head=up. I think the listing also mentions it, which probably played into my pre-conceived notions. Makes more sense when given that the antlers (didn't know what those were supposed to "Bee" ) are right side up. Ford, what an insight! Well, I think these comments have just doubled or tripled the value of this tsuba now, so it will be interesting to watch. I mean, on understanding the theme alone even my non-iron interest is piqued! Edit: Hmmm...not sure I'm finding the right kanji combo: 微禄 = びろく = Be ro ku = stipend Bee (this one's easy) ビー = "Bee" (western pronounciation) 蜂 はち = Hatsu Antler (doesn't look like the kanji combos are pronounced ro ku?): 鹿の角 しかのつの = shikanotsuno 枝角えだづの =medazuno Maybe just the kanji for horn: 角 カク = Ka ku ( but つの=tsuno if first or used alone) So, Be-ka-ku (western word for bee +horn), close to Be ro ku... What an interesting etymology!

Came across this "bee/wasp" themed tsuba. Made me wonder whether there was any sort of definition of a tsuba's correct orientation. When sheathed in the saya, the design would be upside down. When drawn, the tsuba would be rightside oriented. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUKASHI-TSUBA-J ... 638wt_1038 My understanding was most tsuba were designed to be viewed sheathed within the saya. Is there a term or style associated with orienting a design to be seen correctly when the sword is drawn? Note: flipping the tsuba and regardless of which side is the Ura or Omote, the upside down when in saya still holds true... Looking forward to comments!

Amazing work. Can't wait to see pictures of the final reassembly of the full gusoku! Wish I had the $$$ to go after the Christie's helmet with my family's kamon on it....

Looks nice! Can't wait to see the final results!

Thanks Christian! I really appreciate the help. Thank you for the response and great translations Hi Markus, WOW! looks like I have another book on the list to buy of yoursI just spent more money on books :D (I think I have 4 or 5) Having tried my hand at translating, I fully appreciate all the time and effort you've put into your books. I think I may have to buy the e-book versions of a few of them for ease of reference.... You're books are among the best deals in nihonto and tosogu studies, offering a whole lot more information than many of the "classics" at a much lower price point. The ones I have should be standard reading in my opinion. Had I know your Handbook contained pictures and covered material in Wak Vol 8 (for some reason I thought it was about sword terms only), I would have purchased it a long time ago!

Having a little trouble figuring out that literal translations of these three terms 割継 削継 削金 . They have to do with splitting gold and shakudo in a design, like on the back of kozukas. Is "Divided patching" "Split Patching" and "Cut Patch" correct translations? Also, what is fukumekin 哺金 (somehow related to the etching in the back of goto school kozukas). Thanks in advance.

Hi Adam, understood your comment better now in context, and hope mine didn't cause too much of an offense. My feeling is that there is nanako THAT good, as unbelievable as it is, and hopefully more of us can appreciate it now knowing more about the variations and subtle differences. Seems like you've had hands on experience, so I hope you're finding the financial support you need to continue your growth in the craft!