Dan tsuba

Curran, A great post! You stated that “with each school and each maker, there are _SOFT_ rules about size, shape, finish, and %_percentage of seppa dai vs total volume displacement of the tsuba.” Also was stated “At least amongst the Higo schools, certain schools and certain generation had specific rules.” I am very interested in what you stated. Can you provide pictures or references that I can refer to about these rules? Thanks!

Hi Arnaud (OceanoNox). Great research on finding that Edo period publication! You stated that it has to do with making tsuba out of recycling old farming tools, and I did notice some pictures of tsuba in that publication. So, I figure you must have translated some of it. I appreciate you advising me how to translate the rest of it. However, I don’t have the technological tools or know how to translate it. Maybe someone on the forum can translate those pages with tsuba shown on it and post it? That would be very helpful! As an addendum to this post. I inquired on the internet “how many millions of Japanese edo period texts are awaiting to be translated into English”. This is what the internet stated- “There is no exact number, but there are certainly many thousands, and likely millions, of Edo period texts awaiting translation into English, though a comprehensive figure is not available. A vast amount of information from this fertile period of literature and art exists in handwritten and printed formats, and a significant portion of it has not yet been translated or studied in depth by English-speaking scholars. Factors contributing to the large volume of untranslated texts: Vast quantity of materials: The Edo period (1603–1867) was a time of significant population growth and increased literacy, leading to the creation of an enormous number of books, manuscripts, and other written materials. Variety of genres: Texts span numerous genres, including literature, history, philosophy, art, poetry, and practical guides, each requiring specialized translation skills. Complex language and script: Edo-era Japanese was written in a complex script using Chinese characters (kanji) and Japanese phonetic scripts (kana) that differs from modern Japanese, making translation a specialized and labor-intensive task. Limited resources for translation: The number of translators with the specific linguistic and historical knowledge needed to translate these texts is limited. Incomplete cataloging: While there are collections, many texts are not fully cataloged, making it difficult to even identify the full scope of what exists and needs translating.” Also, found this on the internet “Keeping Knowledge Secret in Edo Period Japan (1600-1868) found at this website- https://www.jstor.org/stable/48647105?seq=1 So. maybe there was stuff written about the making of cast iron tsuba in the Edo period that has not come to light yet or was kept secret? Who knows? Just some more interesting stuff.

Hi Brian, Kind of off topic here. So, in your last post you seem to be referring to instruction manuals written in the Edo period that tells and describes how to make an iron tsuba. In part of your post (which was referering to cast iron tsuba) you stated- “Clearly the Japanese were very embarrassed about doing it. Because they managed to hide all the old writings on it, pattern books, instruction manuals, pretty much all the documentation that they did routinely for all the other methods.” I would very much be interested to see those Edo period instruction manuals that describe and state, step by step, how to make a hand forged iron tsuba (hopefully they have been translated into English!) since as you stated- "pretty much all the documentation that they did routinely for all the other methods.” Could you please post some links or references so I can check them out? Thanks!

Well, my friends there you have it! If a tsuba was made from cast iron in the Edo period (and cast iron has a high carbon content) and then decarburized (to lower its carbon content) and in doing so make it more malleable for addition of motif or design, could that ever be determined or detected? Maybe even with non-invasive metallurgical testing, could that testing discern if it was first cast and then decarburized? Where is a university degreed metallurgical expert when you need one? Like I said before, maybe this thread needs to be locked? In my opinion nobody really knows anything, and everybody is just guessing. Only a few courageous members are willing to take a stand that cast iron tsuba were made in the Edo period. Just my opinion.

Well, I found an interesting comment to the Marcus Sesko article (which is a great article) about the Nara find of casting molds. That discovery initially started me on my journey on this thread about cast iron tsuba. I was referred to the Sesko article by a post on this thread dated 1/27/2022. I haven’t revisited that article until about an hour ago! What I found was a comment (written by another individual) added at the bottom of that article on 10/12/2022. The article by Sesko can be found here- https://markussesko.com/2016/01/20/cast-sword-fittings/ Here is what part of that comment stated- “I have long maintained that many sukashi tsuba were originally cast and then converted to malleable iron by carburisation – in effect by heating in firescale. We know this process is used for kettles, allowing the surface to be chiselled and otherwise worked. The commonly advocated method of their production, being cut out of a plate by sawing, would demand the existance of sawblades capable of intricate cuts, similar to modern piercing saw blades. By casting and then carburising, the basic form of the tsuba would then only need refning using files or even more likely scrapers.” Just some more interesting stuff!

Hey Kai, Welcome to this great forum! I like your tsuba even though it appears to have been overcleaned. I agree with Spartancrest that your tsuba was mounted at least twice. Also, another nice thing about your tsuba is that the kogai hitsu ana (one of the holes in the tsuba) has been filled. Which to me shows a kind of customization of the tsuba. I usually don't pay over $150 for a tsuba. I think you paid a fair price for yours.

My opinion here, but I liked the old ranking system better. How are the ranks derived at anyway? The number of threads one starts? The number of likes one gets? The number of posts one has? Maybe ranking should be given to an individual by the number of members that view a thread started by that individual and find that thread of interest? I mean, anyone can post something and get a number of likes (or not). But holding the interest of members on a thread over a period of time is something totally different all together, especially on a controversial type thread (let me think, who am I referreing to?) Just my opinion.

When the Dr. told me I had a cataract, I said no. I don't have a Cadillac, I have a Dodge! Of course, I went out and got hearing aids after that! Ha, ha, ha, etc. Again, way off topic here but I had to put my 2 cents in!

Jean. Once again, you just don't get it do you. You stated "Compare with real TSUBA!" Martin stated "Is it really Meiji era tsuba or otherwise? I mean it looks really nice so even if it was contemporary i would probably get it. It is priced around 40 Euros." Why can't you just support Martin in what he finds interesting to him? He already has stated that he thinks it may be Meiji. Real tsuba or otherwise, if he likes it, that what is important. Why do you always have to put someone down with your "Compare with real TSUBA". By capitilizing "TSUBA" what are you trying to say? Are you a "TSUBA" snob?

Martin, I like the tsuba! It is well done and maybe it is not cast, but machine cut. It is nicely painted and shows great detail (my opinion). I don't know! Maybe it was made in the last century? But it doesn't appear to have been mounted on a blade. But if you like it, that is the important thing! Onward!

Hi Martin, My opinion is that the tsuba looks modern and fairly recently made to me. But hey, if you like it that is all that matters! 40 euros is a fair price for a modern tsuba (again, my opinion!). Onward!

Hi Curran! What is that cryptic beer mug in your last post supposed to represent? This Buds for you! Thanks for your support, and I will also drink to that! Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc! Onward to more Edo period cast iron tsuba research!

Well Mauro, I went to the site you stated and found that frog motif tsuba. Part of the description from the museum is shown below- "Date of Use- 17th or 18th Century The iron plate of this tsuba was cast not forged. PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION Iron; roughly oval; frog carved in the round in relief; no signature legible. MATERIAL metal, copper metal, silver alloy (?) TECHNIQUE cast chased engraved pierced” I have included the pictures of the tsuba below from the other thread. Now, to me, that is a cast iron tsuba that has been overcleaned so it appears more silver in color (as overcleaned iron tsuba tend to do). Just my opinion!

I saw this information about the frog motif tsuba (shown above) on this other thread- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53444-question/#comment-561175 (some of the information from a post by Spartancrest)- “Found in the Museum of Vancouver DB 403. They state: The iron plate of this tsuba was cast not forged. No signature is legible. The Museum also states: DATE OF USE 17th or 18th century. So, they believe it was made in the Edo period. [Let the arguments commence! :)]”. I know many members will think (and state?) that the museum could be wrong. But maybe the museum could be right in their assessment? Who knows, just some more interesting stuff about cast iron tsuba.

Well, here is something of interest. From a recent thread on the forum- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53444-questi?on/ The frog tsuba in that thread appears to be cast iron (picture attached). Edo period? Not Edo period? Who knows! Just some more interesting stuff to consider. Onward my friends!