Curran

Yes... I agree with Mariusz. Is that the man's real head, or the head of Fredricke Neitchze on a paunchy yet limber fellow?

Geez- Chill a bit gentlemen. David is usually one of the cooler heads on NMB. Lorenzo is very high fluent to fully bilingual. I wish my Italian was half as fluent as his English. He just happens to disagree with you David. Higo ranges from some incredible work to lots of derivative crap that is more Chinatown knockoff "Prado" than actual Prada. My friend and others specialize in Higo tsuba in what is already a very specialized area of collecting. I don't want to follow the herd and have actively resisted liking Higo, but some of the softmetal work and Jingo iron pieces are just too seductive. ____________________________ Yahoo!Japan: as shill bidding is not prohibited and time extends when there is a new bid, many/most auctions are shilled now. Sellers like Fuji_5005 or Fuji_505 are notoriously blatant. Expect to usually pay more for an item on Yahoo!Japan than you will in the US. Also, the number of fakes or moderns have risen significantly. Other sellers do some ridiculous things. However, some rare items do make their way onto Yahoo!Japan. They are worth watching for, and sometimes can be had at a fair price. They can be fuzzy photo gambles or things so rare that the average collector doesn't recognize them. A large shibuichi Nambokuchu tachi tsuba with 8 medallions per side in very good condition recently sold there. Beautiful to see and I wonder if it will materialize on Boris' site at some future date.

Lorenzo- Thanks for the comment. I know little of Satsuma tsuba, distinct kantei points, and how they are papered. I seem to recall that Tanobe-san was fond of them? Mike's tsuba is spot on for the discussion. It is pretty much the twin of the "Nishigaki" I sold, except that it has the important difference of the Satsuma mon sukashi.

David, Ouch. Harsh. You're definitely not a Higo lover. It is a decent piece that I would say falls to the Nishigaki if it didn't have that signature/attribution to Jingo on it.

The smartest Higo collector I know (only know Ito-san through proxy, and never seem to agree with Jim G opinions anymore) says the kinzogan Jingo isn't correct and isn't interested in buying it. I'm not buying diddly until I get out from under a wave of house expenses & my buying of Higo pieces is sideline, being more interested in other schools. So here have a go: http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r93523018 Satsuma mon. This tsuba has probably had more discussion than it is worth, in my understanding of it. Opinions welcome as to whether or not this one would paper at shinsa.

Kinzogan to: Yatsuhiro ju Jingo + Kao or appraisor's mark. (Jingo: using the 五 character, sans "box" underneath) Signature or attribution? _______________________________________________________ "Mr. Mike", what's with the "Mr. Curran" ? We've dealt, or not dealt, with each other for at least ten years. At least since the front of the room Kariganeya Hikobei rant in San Fran. You're knowledge is appreciated in this matter. Yes, the kinzogan Hayashi where the mei matches the work is a classic. Rakuju seems to have been fond of the kinzogan mei. Several others about too. Have any kinzogan Shimizu-Jingo ones? I don't recall any off hand.

David: The boxes go out soon. Thanks, as it helps pay the bills. Glad to have 2008-2009 in the rear view mirror, but housing bills like to crop up randomly. This year it is roofing and deck repairs. Whatever induced me to buy such a large old house. Should have waited until we had kids. Tom: I have NO interest in buying the tsuba. I haven't heard back if one of my friends might be. More his thing, but no opinion yet. No photos till then. Jean: With swords, I thought it was as David said. Wrong inlaid mei = rejected for papers. However, as thin kinzogan for a signature- the tsuba mei would be easy to remove. I have also seen a tsuba where I forget what the hitch was, but it had punch marks to indicate a particular Kamiyoshi smith. It obviously wasn't. The NBTHK papers decided to say "Higo" in classical Japanese vagueness. BUT... not sure how the NBTHK would handle this mistaken (my opinion) mei. Would they simply paper it to "Higo" or not paper it at all?

Jean, She = NBTHK ? (a) Ignore the kinzogan to a Jingo smith, and paper to Nishigaki (b) Ignore the tsuba, ie. not paper it

I have recently seen a tsuba up for sale that screams to me work of a Nishigaki school artisan. I owned a near identical one years ago, papered to "Nishigaki" The one up for sale is unpapered. It has a kin zogan signature that I interpret to be an attribution. But the "signature" is to a Jingo artist. Does the NBTHK kill this one as gimei? ____Please, no debate about whether the mei is right or wrong____ To simplify the question: How does the NBTHK regard incorrect kin zogan attributions on tsuba ?

Move to sword discussion group.

The Craig Bird article is worth the price of a copy of the Art & Sword Vol 1. The illustrations are helpful. The Yasumitsu in the article: A monster at just over 36", with 3 types of hamon (basically Grandfather's, father's, and his own) and 3 types of utsuri. Change is even. Every 12 inches, smooth transition to a different hamon and utsuri. Sort of a mad master performance in 1 sword.

Rather fond of these yoroi doshi myself. That gold 2 foil 2 piece habaki alone will cost about 50% of your purchase price to have made these days. For the record, nakago on mine also looked old. Fair number of people tried to argue it was late Muromachi.

Trauma surgeon point of view: It goes in, and it doesn't come out. Rather large for that in a human sense, when smaller arrowhead can be nearly as traumatic in this regard. Necessary to expand the wound to withdraw it. Or push it through. Yet rather too high quality for the needs of a whale harpoon or dolphin hunting. Could this be used for larger game of some sort? Wild boar? (Yum-) Presume some sort of strong line through the ana, tied to a secure point such as a tree or whatnot/

The shirasaya is written "Rai Kunimitsu" (Yamashiro School) The blade signature is "Morimitsu" (Bizen Osafune School) There are minor flaws in the blade. Blade needs a polish and new shirasaya. Cost would probably be $1200 to $2000 for polish + $350 for shirasaya+ (cost of blade on eBay) Jigane looks correct for Bizen Osafune, but the "Mitsu" character of Morimitsu does not look correct to me. This is just my opinion. I cannot see the "Mori" character to make judgement. c. 1829 would be a later generation "Morimitsu".

Gendai fittings generally get rejected. I think there are one or two recognized artisans that have had tsuba papered, but cannot confirm this with a name and image. A tsuka with menuki on it will just be papered as a 'tsuka with menuki'. I don't think it vets any signature on the menuki. Thus be cautious to think papers verify the mei on a koshirae. Of course the upside is.... that koshirae usually don't make specific attribution of the pieces on them. I've seen papered koshirae for $3000 USD where a 1st gen Kanshiro or Hirata tsuba is on it. In the instance I recall, the tsuba sold for near $10,000.

I'm not really sure what you want to know? Generally: koshirae get papered if they are original, or are as they were when in authentic use. I don't think the NTHK will paper any koshirae later than Edo period. Anything swapped out obviously "wrong" on them and they won't paper. I keep two koshirae with NBTHK papers: (1) One is a special toppei tanto koshirae people keep prompting me to put up for Juyo. I don't think it will pass at this time, and don't much care about Juyo anymore. (2) Other is an original Owari / Yagyu koshirae that is minimalist and rather cool. Both are as they were c Edo period. I've studied a fellow collector's all original koshirae that is as old as late Muromachi period. Practically falling apart, but interesting as heck to see.

Shinshinto. Have owned a nearly identical papered one. Price of a two piece gold foil habaki is not cheap, having climbed significantly in recent years.

Shinshinto yoroidoshi (armor sticker). Seem to have been in vogue c. 1860s. Often nice, but rarely exceptional. This looks to me a very typical example from the 1860s. It appears a nice habaki on it, though not sure what to think of the koshirae and the dark photos. Hard to be certain. (EDIT:) I see Tom posted while I was writing. He is right in that Nihonto.com seems to have recently acquired a few. Note that at least 2 of the 3 are from the 1860s. Probably the 3rd one is also c. 1860s.

Also recommend Sesko's "Generalogies of Japanese tsuba and toso-kinko Artists" p. 129 Genealogy of Goami. Thought the Silk Road tsuba has a mei that is considered Momoyama-very early Edo according to the genealogy, it seem a late Edo tsuba.

Dr. Joe Sorry for the small hijack, but do you know if Fred or someone else owns that softmetal Hirata version of the Namako pictured in the Northern California newsletter? I would very much like images of it for my files. I believe we have discussed the dozen or so iron Musashi Namako before. Do not rule out the iron "Musashi" Namako being Hirata work.

Jean, I am thinking more in terms of kantei. Technically "forge seams" is probably not be the correct term to define what goes on in a 1st period Yagyu along the edge. Maybe Ford H. (hardest working man now that James Brown is Dead), can comment specifically. He knows best, and I have seem him achieve a *slightly* similar result. For now I will simply call them "filo crust layers". ON the first tsuba Ed listed, I am willing to bet $500 that they are very distinct. When I own a 1st period Yagyu tsuba and get to study it for a period of time, then I can tell you what it is... For now I can only tell you what it looks like. I never see it anywhere else. Even the best Norisuke copies of Yagyu are not the same. If I have time this week, I will get out the best books I have on it and see if they explain it.... now that you have gotten me curious what it is exactly.

I have been away for a while and will continue to be away as I deal with business / family issues. This is just a quick drop in, and forgive me if I don't reply to any posts. Ed has posted some excellent true early and mid period Yagyy tsuba. I suspect he took these photos many years ago at the San Fran exhibit? It took me years to find a good mid-period Yagyu tsuba for my little collection. See 1 or 2 early period such as the Bamboo ones Ed has photographed and handle them, and you won't confuse other tsuba for them. See or handle one or two, and you have an education. *** Early period Yagyu tsuba have a very distinct multiple layer forging in them. I must strongly disagree with Rokujuro's comments. *** Who knows why or how this is, but it is very important strong kantei point. Even the most brilliant Norisuke copies don't get this aspect right. True early period Yagyu are extremely valuable and expensive ($10000 to $30000). They may not be your cup of tea, but take any opportunity you have to see them. Mid period are more in the $2000 to $10000 range depending upon design+condition and may lack the distinct multiple layer folding, but still the distinct grain iron is such that you will never confuse them with kodai Yagyu to be found. They are much much much more common and are worth $750 to $2000. An example of Kodai Yagyu is here: http://www.nihonto.com/11.2.09.html Just my opinion: 1 early period, for every 5 to 10 mid period, to every 50 kodai yagyu. Good early period Yagyu are rare, rare, rare. Most you see in books are Mid-period, or low end of 1st period. Many of those in the European NBTHK book strike me as middle period, and not even particularly nice examples. This tsuba for discussion might be kodai Yagyu, but probably it is just something else.

Ford, for whatever reason, you have PM disabled. Just for giggles, here is a cute copy for sale in Japan: http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g111424128

To ask the almost verboten: does anyone think Skip would sell a cast? My cumulative experience opinion is "No". He has saved me from an error or two before. ~~In this instance David has the safety of purchasing from what I believe to be two reputable people. _______________________________________________________________________ My monitor and viewer isn't the best, and my photoviewer program is a laughable antique. I must admit I just assumed these were shakudo inserts. I do seem to recall that I have seen faux iron sekigane on a real tsuba before, though I readily admit it doesn't make much sense and I would be hard pressed to recall where or find a photo of it. I will try.

Don't forget the monkey at 2 pm position carrying the banner. Always one of them worked into the better pieces. I forget the significance. Nice example of Mitsuhiro. As the Doctor hints, the Bushido article is one of the best on these tsubako. ___________________________________________________________________________________ As to Namban, there is a Japanese paperback book on them. Not incredibly informative. You'd do as well or better to read Dr. L's book or Peter Bleeds writing on them. Many many are of low quality manufacture. Some are not. In the past 10 years I have seen many less of the higher end ones. Like WW2 swords, the good ones seem to be getting more respect during the last decade.