Curran

Honestly, after a long time at it I still have a hard time valuing these. The timing of the thread was ironic, as I expected to list a ko-tosho / tosho , a late Jingo, and one or two sets of menuki on eBay soon. Knowing what would be fair value for the ko-tosho is hardest.

Yes, it would be easy to view this as the (three) crosses on the hill. I remember wondering that myself once upon a time. But I think this particular symbol predates introduction of Christianity to Japan by a good bit, so probably not it. Having a hard time finding a photo to back up my claim.

Nice to see that ko-shoami again. My thoughts on it were that the symbol is the same as that often seen on the brocade cloth parts of armor. (I've also seen it on a number of kendo bags). You might do better to ask in the armor section of the forum, as that is really a different knowledge base.

Going off the tsuba, I'd say authentic. Going off the signature vs the recognized published ones, I have doubts. But then over time I've also learned to doubt some of the texts, like Wakayama only showing the Shozui (aka. Masayuki) with the "right handle" stroke as being authentic. I'm a few links behind Peter and Steve on ability to judge Nobuiye, so going quiet here. Am glad Pete spoke up. And it is the NPO "NTHK". Not the NTHK. Though I've dealt with the NTHK more as a default due to the NYC club being joined at the hip with them, I try to remain Swiss neutral on the fight between them. My very blunt Personal Feeling is that if the NTHK (not the NPO) papered it to Nobuiye, that would be even better than NBTHK papers- because I don't think the NTHK would stick its neck out and paper anything with a "very big" signature unless it was a knock-down balls on match for the reference books. In years past I have really respected some of the judges they have had, especially including Hagihara-san in 2004 and Igawa-san met in 2006; but think it would need be a dead ringer to pass a stateside NTHK shinsa.

Mostly just ordered books from them. Last one reeked of mothballs, but was in excellent condition otherwise. They've been around forever. Never heard any complaints. Sometimes they get nice items (ie. not to be found elsewhere), but their prices have never struck me as cheap. For a while there, they had a 10% off coupon for purchases above 50,000 yen. You may be so bold as to try knocking 10% (or 15% if you gaijin dare...).

All diamonds and all Nobuiye of the same desirability? I did mean on a $ value level. Something highly desirable, highly valuable, and not in an area of interest to me. Leave it at that.

Kevin, I wouldn't have understood Pete's comment until I read the Nobuiye book. It is one of the topics in the book I'm still trying to decide how much weight I give it. Given how extensive the author was in his experience and ownership, I will take it as 'True' for now. As timing would have it, just packed the book away today for an impending move. Henry's timing was Chaos Theory at work... pack the book in NYC, have a Nobuiye tsuba pop up for show in Japan that evening. Anyway, I believe that is what Pete means. There are some diagrams on how it the author feels they should be and how forgeries or wanna-be's often get the curve and angles wrong. Akin to someone building modern pyramids (ex: I.M. Pei's one over the Louvre)... only getting the angles wrong.

Henry, Thats only the second one out of the woodwork I've seen papered by a westerner. Both were small examples. I'm looking forward to seeing the signature. And don't take my offer lightly. I'm about to put 10 tsuba into Bonhams at the end of this month. Several are heavy hitters, with two or three at this level. One above it. As is usual, I don't care much which way cash flows as long as it is a fair deal. Pretty little Omodaka. I hope you can share more photos later.

Congrats! Trade you for it.

Peter, thanks for the post. One of the sets was perfect for what I needed. Now mine.

Doesn't roll when sword put on the floor.

"Survey Says...?" (Dawson from Family Fued)

Here is one set: http://thesoulofthesamurai.net/product.php?s=yasuda I was trying to find the link to another mitokoromono set of shakudo I'd seen recently. Seems to have sold. Also looks like Mike n Cyrus had something signed by this school on their website at some point.

Peter, I'm going to belabor a point for a minute: upon what distinction are the Yasuda included / excluded from the 'Iebori' of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Some books have then as sub contractors to the Goto or alternatives to the Yoshioka. They worked almost exclusively for the bakufu, lived on bakufu land, and were supposedly better paid by the bakufu than the Yoshioka (just in lump sum terms, not per employee basis). But as supposed 'Goto subcontractors' they also hired further subcontractors. Slippage in quality. Thus I don't hold their work on par with mainline Goto or Yoshioka. When not Goto, not as crisp as Yoshioka, and something of very high level shakudo but unsigned- Yasuda seems to be the NBTHK paper.

Beautiful kogai. You've probably already seen this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachibana_clan_%28kuge%29 The list of persons associated with the 'mon' are below in the link. ~However, given that it is a kuge thing / historical allusion vs a mon, I'm not sure you can take a firm Edo period answer away from it. Finding Western Heraldry to be a bit of a mad mix-up, I've always hesitated to delve into pre-Edo heraldry. I was hoping one of the more broadly educated savants on the board would nail the answer. Would like to compare your kogai with the one I have of this design, which I eventually attributed to Yasuda School and said that is good enough.

Again, Peter Klein's well done hierarchy: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15350&p=134790&hilit=goto#p134790 Photos attached of my NBTHK Hozon set papered to Kyo Goto, aka Waki Goto. 脇後藤 Compare/contrast with ThunderCat's set. The rendering of teeth, claws, hair, fur, eyes, double spinal ridges along the back, etc.

Peter, Thank you. I remember reading that long ago. It was such an excellent write-up by you that I printed it out and placed with my Goto books. Unfortunately, my Goto books are in storage for the summer- I should have remembered this write-up. I'll send you a PM later about a Goto piece that I have been studying.

Thanks.... that is killer in that 2 pieces of high level goto side school work I have seen in the last 24 hours get lumped in with hood ornament level 'Waki-goto' level work. NBTHK Hozon papers slay me more and more with what they don't say these days. Of recent papers, I've seen a 3rd gen Hayashi Tohachi tsuba given 'Hayashi' Hozon, and a another Nishigaki work simply called 'Higo' Hozon. Dumbing down to minimal effort at the Hozon level. I'm aware of the issues several of the advanced Higo collectors have with the NBTHK Hozon papers, but hope it isn't spreading to non Higo. Forgive the minor rant. Even with the Yen weakening, it is difficult to justify the expense of such milktoast NBTHK Hozon papers.

You've posted this in the Translation section. Should be moved. As to sambonsugi : Kanemoto

Thank you to both of you. I still could use some clarification. (1) I have a set of nice Goto menuki with recent NBTHK papers that say 脇後藤 (2) I am also looking at a set of menuki with old NBTHK papers that say 傍後藤 Both have the same meaning as "Waki Goto"? One is not more favorable than the other? Waki Goto is a very casual term in the west for anything looking remotely Goto. The old set is practically Kyoto junk, whereas the NBTHK set looks like Kaga Goto work. I am surprised it wasn't given specifically to Kaga Goto. Even respective of the age difference of the papers, it is hard to believe these two different sets of menuki share the same 'classification'.

I was looking at a set of rather mediocre looking menuki. Had very old papers saying 傍後藤 This isn't a goto school I recognize. I put it through my translator and it came back as "Pong-Goto". Please don't laugh, but is this simply the kanji for 'Waki' as in Waki-Goto?

Debatable that they be Waki Goto or Kyo Goto. See Peter Klein's excellent post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15350&p=134790&hilit=goto#p134790 Here, slightly funky off-beat Goto style trying to convey more motion or dynamics that the normal goto menuki. There are a lot of rendering similarities between mine and yours. Thus, I say you may have been able to grab a pair of Kyo Goto menuki cheap. Might get the Kyo Kinko attribution instead. Better to get a second opinion, as people like Peter K. know Goto better than I do. Sorry in that I don't have any photos of them. Will try to take some if possible.

I just punched up the auction this morning to see the results. The bids were up to $5500 Reserve was *Not Met* Looks like it would have been a fair bargain, given the necessity of a trip to RI to retrieve it.

Adam T- Get us more photos whenever possible. Otherwise, arrange to meet with me or visit the NYC Metro Sword Club one Sunday.

Excellent explanation by George. Learned something today.