Curran

Pete beat me to it. 3rd or 5th gen Hayashi. Nice.

Seen a few like this on legitimate tsuba from different schools. My best guess as to Why? is the same as Mr. Bowen's.

I was thinking towards Nara too. Don't think I would say ko-Nara, but it is one of the areas where I don't have many books and definitely have much more to learn. As the design doesn't curve around onto the mimi, I think the most I can say is [Nara den]

Welcome. Please formally sign with at least a first name, as per the etiquette rules. Also, with the antiquated camera [i use an old one too], please take a side photo of the side where the man's umbrella finishes. If the umbrella and design wrap a bit onto the mimi [edge], it will help pin down the general school to which this tsuba belongs. If not, then we can only give a best guess and whatever information might help you in your understanding of this old sword guard.

Most anything mailed from Dec 10th to January 10th went into a black-hole of USPS systems overload. Last year around July? they upgraded everything Priority to have tracking and $50 insurance. Their systems obviously weren't ready for it, but the shiite didn't really hit the fan until the holiday mailing started. However: Philadelphia and Tirado. Darcy has told me horror stories about things clearing Chicago. Not sure if I can top those. Nothing..... NOTHING.... ever got lost in Jersey. I've only had one eternal MIA in NYC, and that may have been 50% my fault. ~~~~ But Phili..........I did spent 2 years in Phili and they are definitely a bastion of USPS chicannery. I was a grad student at the time, so had flexible schedule to track everything down. Philadelphia is the Bermuda Triangle in my experience. Only city where I ever actually preferred UPS to USPS. 90% of everything I've ever had go missing or damaged in the last 20 years was via Phili USPS, in just a 2 year period. (1) A retainer check I wrote to our future business lawyer for $10,000 went missing for 2 years.... After a month, the lawyer thought I'd flaked and gave me attitude. I sent a wire the next day. Two years later she wrote me an apologetic email showing me a letter that had just arrived, post stamped 2 years earlier and rather 'stepped on'. (2) Also got a few packages on the doorstep in plastic bags that looked like wolves had chewed on them, enclose with little paper notes saying "Oops. Sorry. Please contact this number..." (3) A European sent me cash via envelope..... which arrived slit open and with green tape resealing it. Missing a $50.... (4) They managed to crush a double boxed brass shoami tsuba. I don't mean ding.... I must imagine drop a boulder on it from 50 ft up. Even the Postal Employee taking the claim filed had to ponder the physics involved. (5) Had problems shipping to/from Tirado just up the way. Eventually just started doing the 2.5 hour drive roundtrip. Fear the Phili. John's shirasaya can be wonderful as I have two of them here. Still.... very wary of Phili USPS and hesitate to send anything to Tirado via USPS. Either UPS or FedEx when dealing with him.

I talk with Eric now and then. Some people love him, one or two don't. He's always been very honest with me, and I've tried to be brutal honest with him. Almost 0% B-S when we talk. Rather refreshing in brutal discussion of aesthetics. He has a good eye for quality items. I think he recently sold one of ex-Jim Gilbert's Akasaka. A real beauty. Tadatora was my opinion. I'm full up with a good shodai, nidai, and sandai example. If I hadn't had one about on par, I probably would have been ringing him up for his. That one was a real temptation. Congrats to the new owner.

Agree. Nice example with date. What is the thickness at the mune? I have a similar Shimosaka one that came original to a koshirae I bought. Probably c. 1865. The tanto was nice enough that I had a shirasaya made for it and a tsunagi for the koshirae. Surprisingly nicer blade than I expected when I purchased the koshirae.

Very pleasant workmanship. Nice read on the poem. Thank you for sharing.

Florian B., Recommend almost every book translated from Japanese by Markus Sesko. As he is Austrian of origin, he has even more publications in German than in English. Try Lulu.com or Amazon and search his name. Also search this forum.

As usual, a well worded answer by Darcy. That 'grok' [Heinlein reference] moment can happen early for some or take quite a while.

Good question. While similar in construction, the Compton one and the Yahoo!Japan one are very different in the detailwork. Different wave designs, different wave form carving, different seppa dai work, and some different perspective tricks in the Compton one. This leads us to the problem of classification. It largely depends on the tsuba and the papering organization. My memory and records are of Umetada, ko-kinko, and (kyo) kinko attributions. The Umetada classification is a bit of a dumping ground for entirely kinko non shakudo works of certain types/age where they don't have a better answer. It is a slight upgrade from kyo-kinko or shoami, but not much. There are 'umetada' dumped, and then Umetada of exceptional workmanship. Ironically, the 'ko-umetada' seem to sell at a discount to Umetada works as being rather primitive. Most other items earning the 'ko' designation of age get a premium placed on them. Goto attributions probably do exists, as I've seen this sort of tsuba classified as such by some books. I have never yet gotten to study one of these Goto ones to try and learn why. Still learning. A grain of truth in the Compton description is that such tsuba are a bit dubious for mainline Goto work and might get pinned as Kyo Goto. Kaga Goto was a bit more daring with the use of excessive gold. I probably understated the value of the Yahoo!Japan tsuba, given how much gold has risen in value since I began taking note of such tsuba. They pop up often enough, and a much missed former NMB member had a dragon-turtle theme one that was a pleasure to study. It is a small rant against Yahoo!Japan, as it was once a fun place to dig but now is a Chisel Convention. [chisel 1 nv carve with a chisel 2 v engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud]

Needs better pictures for a better answer.

The plate foil leapt out at me. Just too obvious. That, the mimi, and having handled a even a few of these would have said it was on of the $500-$750 varietals. Maybe with the gold bling, more around $800-$900 to right person with a fascination for wave forms Yeah, I could read enough to realize he was vaguely implying it was solid. Also not a proper lit photo showing the angles. I just cannot believe it got shilled or dueling banjos up to 350,000 yen. My own interest was purely the waveforms (different schools, different styles). John- Yahoo!Japan is so dangerous now. Its eBay where Wild West shilling is allowed and the dealers have finally moved in. Fun fascinating place to watch and study, but very few opportunities anymore. It is actually a better training grounds for deconstruction to identify works by the designs and then learning to read the signatures, knowing they are almost certainly gimei. I've largely avoided Natsuo. I've barely gotten a handle on Ichijo. Only this week laid up dead-dog ill, have I finally taken step one with Markus' Natsuo books. Rather awesome book so far- incredibly easy read. Step two will be some of the Jap texts. Then maybe step 3 seeing some in Japan in next fall or getting to study the ones in Boston Museum next time when up there.

No idea why this one went for as much as it did: http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w94463909 Someone dream it was solid gold? Interesting to look at, but I thought price would be a fraction. If you wanted a nice Natsuo knock-off at decent prices, there is still time: http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g129192666 ~Posted just for fun.

> major Wakayama only gives one reference example, but it does not compare well to yours. You might want to turn to other texts to try to find more examples of this signature and review the workmanship of such signed pieces. Then decide whether to submit to the NBTHK.

Mike, Take new photos in brighter (sun)light if at all possible. Much less macro. It is a little ko-shoami that was probably on an uchigatana or short blade. I recall similar a one in the Haynes Catalogs, though I sold mine. It hasn't been repatinated / dipped. On the sekigane: Lacquer? Pine? Probably the whole tsuba, possibly the koshirae it originally went on was shellacked.

That duncecap in hand is now on my head. I stopped at the Haynes entry on Natsuo, not knowing that Natsuo signs like that. I didn't recognize the first character as his and hoped it was some student that had taken the second character of his name. Should have taken the extra step to look up actual examples in Wakayama. Yes.... looking darn gimei from workmanship to signature. Just like the chinatown "Prado" wallet of Canal Street fame.

It is moments like these when I appreciate my 6th grade Isaac Newton reading of "because I have stood on the shoulders of giants" (ie. Haynes Index). No, I don't think Koken or Hirotake are the right sidestreets. Thank you for this insight, as I can see it. I was headed off down other avenues that were less productive. I am hoping one of our Japanese fluent members and Haynes decipher this mini mystery. This little tsuba seems to me entirely a knockoff of Natsuo workmanship. It has his perspective, but not the depth of his skill. Kinda a knockoff of the one in the Boston Museum and a few others I have seen. I'm hoping it is one of his many students, instead of a gimei of some sort. The tsuba has some patina damage, but the design is pretty and mostly well done. It bugs the whiskers off me that I cannot read what looks to be a rather simple signature.

tool envy. I must be getting old.

With dunce cap in hand. The first character should be simple, but I am not sure if it is a variation of SHI, no, kore, yuki, yoshi OR... something else. I suspect the tsuba is either a gimei or a student work. The workmanship is not on par with that of the famous artist it mimics, but he did have many students. The translation of the mei will determine if student work, or just gimei. Sincere thanks in advance.

I suddenly know what I want for my birthday. What a geek. I don't know much past diddly about photography, but can say all ko-mino photography is for crap. Even that in the books. Everything looks so flat and distorted. Much of it looses the deep angled undercutting element. Thus my own photos of the ko-mino menuki are also 'for crap'. Richard George's halfdome photography might be the only thing able to put it in to proper perspective. As how to capture the range of color in some of the ko-goto shakudo while it passes through different angles of light: I'm sure there is a similar approach to RG's might work it you added the extra dimension of variable light sources.

Rarity, age, condition, workmanship. As Pete said a while back in regards to a tea cup, some of us have that 'ah ha' moment. [FYI Pete, I recall an Isaac Asimov short story about the fate of the world being bought/saved for the sake of a tea cup] I've seen the ko-goto kozuka. Photos mostly fail such things. Put it eye level on a table and look at it, and you might feel very different. The ko-mino flowers stand up like trees on a plain. ~ah-ha, or Not. To each their own. I'd own that kozuka, if I could. Have seriously thought about it a few times and watched the yen rate. I also saw a set of ko-goto gold crab menuki (by Sojo?) in the NY Met, and had that ~ah-ha moment. Living coastal and even chasing small crabs out of the house and off the dock now and then, those gold ones rivaled the real ones. Or beat. No mud on them, but probably less tasty. As others probably have said before, it is something you sort of need to see in person. Attached is an image of a ko-mino menuki with Juyo papers. About 500 years or so old. On my screen, the image is about 20 times the size of the actual menuki. For relative perspective, see the threads of the silk it rests on. Putting it under higher magnification, I saw workmanship (undercuts and rounding, piercing of the central penta) that I cannot even see in this photo. Also, it is nearly as deep as its top to bottom width. If you had an image from the side, it is like the profile of a major city. Most people may prefer something larger and louder. It might be easy to blow past these in a meibutsu room, only looking briefly at the small things without the help of magnification. As if they menuki weren't small enough, they were mounted in a smaller than standard box. Of course, inside another standard size box. Attached should be a macro shot of it in its box at about 3x or 5x?

#1- Owari or Kanayama. Both Attributions = Owari made (think Nagoya area) #2- Akasaka = Akasaka (Edo/Yedo/Tokyo area) The others are a bit more difficult. IF #5 is agreed as Myochin, THEN see the long long long Myochin Family of armor makers. Not 100% stationary place, or agreed upon manufacture. More a type of attribution, just like the recent Tokei sukashi attribution thread in another section. #3, #4 get much more vague. I have seen an identical #4 with old NBTHK green papers, but cannot remember the attribution. #3 could be attributed based upon shape and what might be inferred in hand. It is beyond me to do so in a photo. Others like Ford or Dr. L might have an opinion. Or Mr. Helm might venture a consult with the NTHK opinion, since this is for an academic museum related pro bono effort. That might be a bit too much to ask, so I beg forgiveness in advance. I truly wish #1 was for sale. I sold my similar one years ago in the belief that I would someday buy a Juyo example. That was unrealistic. My favorite ex-Jim Gilbert one was snapped up by another forum member here, so finding another unpapered but obvious Is What It Is one has eluded me. You have shown us some interesting ones over the course of all your work, and this is one that makes me a bit sad to think is hidden stored in the back rooms of a museum.

Yes. Very similar design. Outer mimi finished different. Don't think it should be attributed as Akasaka on design alone, but start there and look for the other evidence. #1- Wow. Owari or Kanayama depending on whom you ask. #3- ? #4- I've seen these papered several ways, depending upon when papered. Safest to say "shoami'. Theme is of a demon-devil-imp. A fluent member can probably offer up the name, as I think it is something more specific than Oni. One of these spaghetti limbed martians: http://www.t-touken.com/wp-content/uplo ... 2/0024.jpg #5- I carried an almost identical looking one of these to the 2006 NTHK shinsa in NY-NJ for a Reverend, and the NTHK gave it a Myochin attribution. That was their call. Conlude: #1, 2, 4, and 5 not Swordsmith tsubas.

Okay, to try and get this back on track: (1) Some reserve the right to doubt the Christian origins. (2) Others see it as a symbol simple and multicultural enough to crop up on its own in several forms. (3) Maybe a few only a tokei sukashi. As to the sidetrack than is page 3, just a photo attached with the intent of arguing #2 in that case. Not attempt to drag the Native Americans into it. It would be best to guess that was the inspiration point for the pre-WW2 Canadian Women's Hockey Team Symbol seen here.