Curran

I should point out that the Yushu papers on the Muramasa were not from the NTHK. Yushu papers from some lesser or unknown 3rd party don't carry much weight.

The Muramasa: Not an area where I know much. There have been some good threads on NMB in this area. The sword itself was a very nice elegant thing. If mumei, it would have caught my attention. Something about the nakago condition patina or feel said that it was not original, but maybe it was done long ago. The only thing I noted the second time I observed it was an odd scuff and distortion on the edge about 8 to 10 inches from the kissaki. My thoughts were someone couldn't resist to use it to cut something, and did so poorly. One poor cut... bamm, there goes a % of the value. All this said, I still couldn't believe it didn't receive more bids. If the Naotsuna was the high end WTF, then the Muramasa was contender for the low end WTF.

Yasumitsu tachi can be signed both sides. In this thread there are links to (or) pictures of Juyo Yasumitsu tachi signed both sides. Long signature tends to be tachi side.

Adam, I believe I remember that Yasumitsu. It was in Ginza-Choshuya magazine late 2007 or early 2008. I didn't have the money free for it, but I tried to buy it the second I saw it. However, Choshuya said it was already sold. Price was very fair. I thought it a bargain for such a Yasumitsu. In modern 'austerity', I cannot afford a Yasumitsu or Morimitsu tachi. Therefore I look for maybe an exceptional wakizashi by Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, or Iesuke. Yes, the horimono on that Yasumitsu wakizashi was outstanding.... but that wak was also priced about $50,000 when the USD was much stronger. Special wak. Yasumitsu often have horimono, but not as much as Oei Nobukuni. Still, Oei period seems popular for certain types of horimono. Here is another Yasumitsu tachi (w/ horimono) to envy: http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1208-K02.html

Sam, Please come to the New York Nihonto Club meeting. I believe it will be on October 28th at 12noon in the usual meeting place in Times Square. PM me for further details or visit the website: http://www.ny-tokenkai.org/ny-tokenkai. ... n_Kai.html

This one has a little more kaeri: http://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1206-W05.html Yes, Yasumitsu is the best. Good tachi by him are rare and expensive. However, I think some Iesuke works surpass that of Morimitsu. I have seen an Iesuke naginata that was on par with the best Yasumitsu work. I have always liked Jean's elegant Yasumitsu. Just for fun, I have uploaded some pictures of other nice Yasumitsu that I have in my records.

I gladly defer to Michael. He and Les are the best Jingo collectors in the west that I know. Ron, after your last post I looked at the books and some files I've been building over the years. I associated the outer chain pattern with 3rd gen or later, though i've mostly seen it in silver or silver inlay. Between that and the thinness, I intially thought 3rd Gen. Then seeing your second image, I wondered if it is late second gen. Michael, any insight on ways to distinquish between 2nd and 3rd gen?

David, Heavy phone / on-line action on that one. I looked at it at least twice. Another experienced person thought it real. I reserved judgement, because I think it got the "shake-n-bake" from someone in the last 20 to 30 years since the papers were issued. Some signs of what I take to be the work of heavy handed repatination. Other than that, it felt fairly right. But my feeling is someone gave it their super secret barbecue sauce. I know one west coaster who has often done that to papered tsuba and worked hard to recognize his influence. I thought I saw it bigtime there. That sort of killed it for me.

Was there today. Most interesting sale.... Bottom line: -----Armor strong , but often seems to do well at auctions. -----Fittings strong , wow. I thought the estimates were nosebleed high, but many went near estimates. Most of the gimei went for less than estimate. -----Swords weak , had I known the reserves were so low- I think I would have gotten the Juyo I was after. Jean, one or two big buyers in the room. But mostly online and phone bids. Some phone wars over fittings and a sword that I liked. I have no idea why the Naotsuna went for that much. Really didn't do much for me, and I thought the estimate was a typo. It was #1136, the Shikkake that I was hoping wouldn't sell. I was very caught off guard when they started the bidding so low and couldn't mentally process that such a beautiful blade went for so little. It didn't look like much in the photos, but was D-IF GIA certified diamond in person. Still a little stunned.... I last minute decided to bid on a tsuba that I liked. So I did that one in person. Bid, got outbid, and trader's reflex is not to bid again.... but I really should have. Fine tsuba by a lesser known at a fair price. Biting my lip on that one. Photo in the catalog didn't do it justice. ----->> Much of the bidding seemed logical to me, but there were maybe a half dozen "WTFs". Again, the Naotsuna was one of them. The Shikkake was also a WTF on the lows side. Bonhams people really did a good job for the most part, as this was a complex sale with a lot of information disclosed on many of the items.

Dr. Dorfman would be my favorite person in the USA to discuss Shimizu/Jingo. You are correct on slanted "water drop holes". I've attached an image that shows this. I have seen examples where this wasn't true, but it might have been for other design reasons. The straight through ones were all late 3rd or early 4th gen work. As to rarity and studying them in person, yes Jingo are the ones that seem hardest to photograph and its only in hand / in person that the whole thing hits you. Often I find paintings (such as Klimt's) are more pleasant in images or photos than real life. Jingo tsuba are the exact opposite. You've got to see them in person. ~~~~~Though one NYC area collector has a fine first gen f/k to study, I just haven't gotten to see enough of the 1st and 2nd gen to feel confident attributing them. A friend has a 1st gen and a 3rd gen that is nearly an identical copy. He explains the differences in quality of the silver zogan and other things so minute that you must see them to understand. I don't understand yet, and may take a little international sabbatical next spring to get a better crash course into Higo works. Thanks for posting that second image. I'm a little surprised the silver is as bright as that. It often oxidizes heavily on the Jingo. I will forward a link. It may take a week or so before he replies.

I too wish I knew. I find auctions impossible to gauge. I've seen auctions of ma-ma stuff go for multiples of current fair value. Other auctions where excellent stuff went for very little. In particular was a Tokubetsu Juyo student of Masamune sword in pristine polish and condition that went for $50-$60K. I'm hoping this auction goes well, as the Bonhams people have done a good job for the most part. Given that I work in finance, I get doused in buckets of the economist and trader's international gloom-n-doom. You'd think it was global extinction around the corner. It remains pretty thick at present, so I don't know if international buyers will show up unless seeking hard assets to protect against governments turning on the printing presses to pay their old debts.

You are correct about the little kaeri.

At Bonhams was a nice sword with NTHK papers. Decent sayagaki. Straight as a kendo shinai. with nice jigane, and a cutting test..... but something very unusual about it. See image and zoom in on the end of the nakago: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20503/lot/1172/ Keep zooming until you can see it well. The last few inches of the nakago are a hollow secondary nakago somehow cut and screw-bolted (yes, looks like a screw) onto some sort of flange from the original nakago. It is relatively stable and the NTHK papers show it this way. As I said, the extention is hollow, like a small iron saya handle. _________________________________________________________ Blade was very nice except for this. I'd never seen something like it before and thought it rather Frankenstein. Must have made for a very long tsuka. Any of our sword swingers able to explain why this was done (just to make it uber long??). Patina doesn't match the excellent patina on the original nakago. Yet cutting it off would require repatination of the end of the original nakago, and I assume it would need be re-submitted for NTHK papers. Or would the NTHK honor the previous papers and simply charge a fee to re-issue papers with the restored nakago?

I remember this from ebay. Didn't think the hada that far off from Oei Bizen that I have seen. Did not look too long, once I decided the signature was not correct. There is a papered one on Nihonto.com that you can use for comparison. The one on Nihonto.com has also seen a lot of polishes, so the kissaki geometry has something to tell you.

Best people to ask are in England or Japan. I'll point one of them at it, but he may be slow to respond. I'm confident with 3rd, 4th, 5th gen and some of the students.... but don't feel knowledgeable enough to comment with conviction on earlier pieces. Please post a photo of the other side, if you have one.

I looked at that helmet since it was right by the entrance. Didn't read the catalog entry on it. Yes, I would call it a Tengu too. Jean, I'm keeping my mouth shut for now. I am sure it will sell, but I've left my contact information with them on it. Should it *not* sell, I may try and negotiate through Bonhams. If that were to happen, I'd be fire selling a few things. I admit I did think of you and your 5 from the major Koto groups. I know you already have a fine example from this group, or I would have been telling you to buy it. PM me if you really want to know.

I spent a second day going over the items for the Bonham's auction. The condition and care of the items is better than my prior experience with other auction houses. Notes: (1) Auction catalog descriptions were excellent. This is something upon which I would fault Christies and praise Bonhams. Some of the website descriptions have minor notes where the book missed something, such as signatures on menuki. In the instance of at least one koshirae, a buyer may get a pleasant surprise if they ever notice the signature on the menuki just barely visible under the wrap. (2) Some of the swords are nicer than I anticipated. I fell in love with one of the Juyo, but probably going to need just admire it from afar. I would have initially thought it overpriced, but it is such an excellent example in master polish. There are more than a few nice blades in what is mostly one owner's liquidaiton. Someone had some taste. Only a few swords showed the neglect we often see on swords come to auction. (3) Specifics... ask someone else if the Muramasa is a real one or not. It is a fine sword. I'll be surprised if that one doesn't go for a bit more. Fine habaki on it. (4) Fittings should be interesting. Lots of late Edo kinko, some of it very over the top. Not what I collect, but it doesn't seem on the market very much. One auction such stuff seems to go for a lot, and the next time not so much. There is one I would like for myself, but I think the reserve a bit high. One of the menuki sets was excellent, but I didn't have time to try and validate the signature. Some very unique pieces in the mix. I saw a carved tsuka the likes of which I'd never seen before. Thought it was leather right up until holding it in the cotton gloves. I may attend the auction in vivo at least through the fittings part. Even if the poor current world economy shivs this auction, the Bonhams people did a fine job with finding, care, and description of the items.

Yoshihara-san has been making these for decades. The early ones could be had for a few hundred USD. As his fame grew, so have the prices. In studying 5 or 6 of them, the workmanship definitely improves with the years. He sticks to his iron and usually sukashi. There is something "right brain" vs "left brain" about them that they feel like gendaito more than tsuba. I don't know how else to explain this. This is one of those instances where I think a non Japanese (Ford) has a better aesthetic for classical Japanese kodogu than the Japanese. As if this years competition didn't put a spotlight on that..... Don't get me wrong, - Yoshihara-san's recent ones are art undo themselves, but they feel like swords trying to be tsuba. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sort of like a very advanced classical portrait painter also sculpting a bit. The processes that work in setting up a skillful painting can cause a few lost-in-translation to a 3-D work if the artist is too set upon using the painting stage settings to make his sculpture rather than empty his mind a bit and build a different sculptor persona and perspective.

Went to Bonham's today. Very nice staff, so I regret some of my prior gunslinging comments. I've dealt with Christies directly and more often indirectly. This was my first time at Bonhams in New York, though I've had a UK friend look in on some of their tsuba for sale at previous London auctions. The photography is decent, but quite a few items were better in person. There is certainly one tsuba I want to see if I can take home. There were several koshirae that were in better condition than I expected. I did not budget enough time before an evening appointment, so may return to Bonhams tomorrow or Sunday to study a few more. The Muramasa was much more enjoyable than I anticipated. Even if it isn't a Muramasa, it is a very well made blade. I expected to be underwhelmed, but instead found myself wishing I could take it home and study it more. Has a nice 2 piece Paulownia-mon habaki on it. --- I asked one of the NYC club members which was his favorite that he'd studied at Bonhams. It was from a school I would not have requested to see. I just didn't think it would have been something I'd like. I must say that he was right... I had thought the estimate on it a bit ambitious, but think I need to eat my words on that one. Wow, what a classical beauty! ___________________ (Ps, I still haven't seen Joe Earle. I begin to think he is a mythical creature, or maybe Keyser Soze?)

Don't click on Jacques' link. Nasty little Trojan rang bells on both anti-virals and jammed up the web browser. Otherwise, please carry on.

Lovely. Take good care of it or trade it to me someday. Tom isn't the only one fond of Toppei koshirae. If you accidentally cleaned it, the shibuichi will darken over time to a nice grey black with its own lustre to it. Careful of fingerprints or other contaminants that cause it to patina unevenly.

Jean: I have the opposite experience- NBTHK papered items failing NTHK shinsa. This is not to say rather that the NBTHK is wrong, but that the Yoshikawa NTHK is a little weak knee at papering bigger name items when it is an ex-Japan shinsa. As for NBTHK old papers, sure I understand the loss of faith in old papers for swords. I disagree with Peter about fittings. Easiest picking is popping out Wakayama and giving yeah/nee to signatures on items with green papers (Tokubetsu Kicho). So many people are brainwashed into thinking green = bad, that it is easy to pick these items up at a discount. Everyone thinks "why don't they have modern papers" and doubts themselves. Thus green papered ones are sometimes cheaper than non papered. A sale of an _excellent_ old tsuba collection came up a few years ago. All the pieces had old NBTHK green papers. It was a field day while others scratched their head and 'dunno'ed the old green papers. Eventually some of the big name Japanese collectors got in on it, but the first round or two was a collector's dream. The few pieces I pulled out of that sale all went on to paper *better* than their prior green papers. As someone stated, the NBTHK's knowledge level has increased. At the very least, items once papered "Higo" often come back "Hayashi", "Jingo" and "Nishigaki". Kinko pieces often do better than their old vague attributions. With some study, a fair number of times "school attributed" pieces can be spotted that come back with specific attributions on new NBTHK papers. Fittings with green papers = good place to look for bargains.

Anyone ever met Joe Earle?

Paul, Yes. Welcome to bring your swords. Just practice good etiquette. I live in Sarasota part of the year, and there are a few of us within an hour or two of Tampa. Feel free to get in touch with me a month or two before the show.

I will go see the preview on Oct 12th or 13th. Should be interesting. Yes, many of the estimates seem ambitious while some seem very low. I would like to think that estimates are well thought out. They are not, though Bonhams seems to put considerably more effort into it than Christies. Japanese sales bringing in a million or two are hardly worth the requisite salary of having someone remotely knowledgeable on staff. Why bother when you can sell $500 million of various Euro brick-a-brack to a Hong Kong art market?