Curran

Chris, Thank you for the clarification. I had not seen the previous discussion by Morita-san. The second character is hard to imagine as 'shu'. It is basically a deep cut two stroke character with the second stroke being a strong J. I will try and take a picture of it.

Chris, Bear with my limited Japanese for a minute: Can you elaborate how you get 'Kishu'? The first character is clearly cut, 10 strokes, as per the references (Haynes Index and others) It is the second one I am having trouble with, and how to read them together???

I've been looking at a curious little tsuba of Iris theme. Sorry I cannot provide a photo of the signature. Signature is very small and thin but deep strokes. Attached is the signature. The first character is clearly that which see as part of the 'Kinai' signature, and can be read many ways. How would it be read in conjunction with the second character? Please see scan. Forgive the poor handwriting, as I clipped myself while cutting the yard and hedges yesterday.... not all fingers functional today. Curran

Whale menuki exist. I've seen them, just as I have a nice whale tsuba and two or three nice whale kozuka. I don't collect menuki at all, but on some level have always been tempted by this set: http://js-samurai-art.com/SHOP/30006.html Maybe just makes me hungry....

Interesting design as the tree branch nearly 330 degrees the tsuba. Usually it is 270 degrees at most. If you are willing, please share measurements... especially thickness to as precise as possible. Don't knock the 4th and 5th gen guys, as the school bifuricated. You have heavy hitter Tadashige and a few others in there.

Doesn't seem to be much Nihonto in it, other than a Juyo Norimitsu.

Yep... no mention of "Ko-Akasaka" or a specific attribution. In NBTHK parlance, take this to mean they think it is 4th generation or later. I went and took a quick look. Papers for 2nd generation hereditary master would probably read 'nidai Tadamasa'. **Would love to see a photo of the tsuba if you want our peanut gallery opinion.*

Odd menuki: The very very first sword I ever owned was a wakizashi in koshirae falling apart. The menuki were not high grade, but the theme was "foreigners drunk underneath modern street lamps at the cherry blossom festival" I kid you not!! Hilarious little menuki. I sold them, not knowing how unusual a theme that was....

To some of the people more experienced with the NBTHK: Have you seen before NBTHK papers to "Ko" Myochin? Unlike Ko-tosho, ko-katchushi, and ko-kinko, I do not recall seeing older Myochin tsuba papered to anything other than "Myochin". Recently a tsuba popped up with "Ko-Myochin" papers and it prompted this question. Anyone have NBTHK papers or has seen before an NBTHK paper attributing to 'Ko-Myochin'?

--sorry-- . Had to pull the photo. Pending owner's permission, I'll share the waterwheel Yagyu tsuba photo then.

Someone was looking hard for copies of Fujishiro a while back. They wrote me a few times, but I didn't keep the emails. I wasn't (and still am not) looking to give up my set yet. I did notice this set in Japan that seems to be going at a good price: http://www.bidders.co.jp/item/141157617 Anyone want it, go for it. Just trying to help, as I here these are wicked hard to find these days.

Peter, Al lives in Florida now? No friggin way! Your coast, my coast, or the panhandle? If over here, he's welcome to some cigars out of the humidor if he wants to drop by. An open show should be much better. I know the antique firearm aspect will bring some collectors down from the NE. I'll bring the great great uncle's Civil War Police Revolver for the gunnies.

Best post today. Thanks Sencho.

Don't know. Been in Florida for a number of years and a member, but either get nothing or 2 copies of various mailings. I thought it a stretch that Bardi could manage it from Hawaii, but hoped he could prove me wrong. Be a hero to me for that. So I hope you are wrong and someone educates us soon.

As Jean said, everyone please follow the name protocol. Some semblance of respect for Brian's invaluable NMB please... I followed this thread because it was a boring day and I had a few minutes... CPU Kill (Erik): When it comes to arkwork I don't much care about money, but it isn't my sword to decide its fate. If dude offered $10k.... get him on the phone right now and sell it. You can buy the owner several like swords for less. I reserve the word *dude* for special use and for when a friend is being a particular bonehead. Be happy to get $10k from *dude*. Even if he is a total asshat that karma wants to serve a lesson, some do-no-harm part of me would hesitate to let him be such a brain dead monkey as to buy it for $10k. Forgive me, but I must raise an eyebrow that dude even exists. Then again, I live in a place where I am reminded that such people do exist in great number. Blade looks very clean. Fittings are crap. Everyone has advised well. I don't think it would even garner $2500, but eBay is a weird thing and the nice temper activity might get some to bid it up.

Tarted up skin deep tsuba went for over $600 ?!

G- I do not believe I know the gentleman behind the website. Nor am I given to tilting at people and think I can count that I do so less than once a year. I do Don Quijote a windmill considerably more often. With patience and understanding for nihonto newbies, it was best to make humor out of it to jossle his common sense. If he has checked back with this post, he probably gets the idea. If the hypothetical fellow I met the other day truly believes he owns the Brooklyn Bridge, the result is still the same to me if I were to buy it from him. My comments were intended for Magic and I hope he has read your post if it wasn't perfectly clear to him. Not sure where Magic is posting from, but with the Yen through the roof and the US still being the tremendous post wartime repository for Japanese swords; short of jumping headlong into a Juyo pricepoint- he would do best to find an NBTHK or NTHK papered sword stateside/Canada. Relevant cost of papering a sword as a % of its value have risen so much such that it hardly makes sense to buy an unpapered sword unless he really knows what he is doing or gets extremely lucky.

magicx50, To save the moderator, please sign your name to the extent asked per the forum rules. The website: signed Masamune and a Muromasa on the same page. Be still my beating heart. Also a saya made in woodshop class. No papers anywhere. The irony is I think one of his attributions is correct. I met this guy the other day who offered to sell me the Brooklyn Bridge. He seemed sincere. He also claimed to own 84% of Facebook, but he had a cash emergency where he needed the exact amount I had in my wallet.

This would be one of the book sets I was thinking about. I think I purchased it for the Bizen section, but found other sections very informative. I recall the Shimada writeup being good.

Given shape and what I can see of it, Shimada is not a bad call at all by Mr. Bowen. I tend to think of them when coming across late Muromachi o-tanto. There is a fair bit written on this school in English, though I have sold most of my publications that I recall having this info.. Someone else might have them and be able to further yes/no the Shimada call by consulting them. What little of their work I've seen in person, I have often liked.

With a bit of help and advice from Brian and Rich T., hopefully will post now the Katsumi works. (see acrobat file attachment) And here is the image of the Ito Masatoshi and Masasada work that got me interested in the Katsumi story. The signature for Ito Masatoshi doesn't match what I have in a few reference books, but he did have a very long life/career and only 2 or 3 reference signatures in my books. Tanaka school style work done in the Bushu Ito school. New to me, though maybe old hat to some of the veteran collectors here. Katsumi-Tsuba-examples.pdf

Ludolph and Eric, Thank you. The images of Katsumi work have been very helpful along with those sent to me offline. The Katsumi and Ito Masatoshi are good examples for me to get the frame of reference I needed. The Ito Masasada was different from Bushu Masasada (different Sada character) and was relatively unknown as be probably didn't become a student until the cusp of the Meiji era. I have been trying to post images of Katsumi tsuba provided to me via email, but am having trouble getting them from an Adobe Acorbat format to something of side I can display here. You two have been helpful in one of the limited chances I've had to study something new. I will try and post an image of the jointly signed Ito Masatoshi and Ito Masasada tsuba tomorrow. The Ito Masatoshi signature still isn't a match with any of the reference examples I've seen, but just doesn't seem to make sense as a gimei. Curran

Koshirae: looks like decent Higo fittings. Might be worth resorting a bit. (1) Can you provide a full length shot of the koshirae? (2) How much damage is there to the saya?

Bear with me, as lots of questions here: Those who have been here a time know that I am interested in Norisuke work, and I seem to enjoy as a side line of study those 19th century fittings artists that were skilled enough to both work in their own style and in making excellent copies or downright forgeries. I've been recently looking at a tsuba signed (Ito) Masatoshi . Nice write-up in Haynes, but doesn't mention the reference mei which are in Wakayama's 3vol set and Kinko Meikan for Ito Masatoshi. The tsuba being studied is also signed Masasada, which is supposedly a student of Ito Masatoshi. Request 1: Does anyone have a geneaology tree for Ito Katsumi -> Ito Masatoshi -> (Ito Masasada?) Request 2: Can anyone provide a reference signature for Ito Masatoshi or Ito Masasada outside of Wakayama and the Kinko Meikan? The tsuba up for sale is unpapered, but the Masatoshi signature doesn't look a close match at all. Yet it doesn't feel gimei, as workmanship is spot on and it isn't a big name. From experience with Norisuke, I am wondering if it is Masasada work with the Masatoshi mei also put on it? Masatoshi had a long life, so it may just be one end of his spectrum of signatures. My only concern with the whole Masasada student is that Masasada is supposed to have died c. 1850..... which would have been when his teacher Masatoshi was 5 years old.... Probably just another of the small errors or inconsistencies in Haynes' mostly superb Index. Request 3: I enjoyed reading about Ito Masatoshi's teacher Ito Katsumi and all the trouble he got into for his forgeries, his "I'm blind" years and subsequent recovery. He was supposedly extremely skilled. Has anyone an example of his work, or more information on his life? Thanks in advance. I'm surprised I haven't studied up on Ito Katsumi and his students before.

The before and after photo of the Nara Kaneiye seem to be a bit confusing the issue. Not what I would expect of a before/after. Keith keeps on hitting on that there isn't a unified idea upon how to clean. I think the idea some of us where trying to communicate is exactly that. You must find your own balance point. To quickly address some points: (1) bone has a different hardness than ivory. It is more useful in some instances. (2) oil can be useful in lifting some types of rust, but it is observed that people overdo it getting it all in the interior of the sukashi (3) bare naked untouched, oil, wax, etc- depends on your view. How many do you have? Do you care for them actively? How much are you focused on pure preservation, vs the way they would have looked in actual use and maintenance during their active life? I only own about 12 now. I have two kake for 3 tsuba each and rotate 6 on display and 6 in storage, so have a fair very light maintenance schedule for them. If I were able to own more, I'd probably take more of a pure long long term preservation stance.