Curran

I was looking at these papers for a Higo tsuba today, and don't know what is correct translation on the first two characters. "Go-shire?" I have the feeling that this is going to kill me with how simple the answer is... Instinct or latent memory says that these characters simply mean 'late' as in Higo from late edo period.

Beautiful tsuba. Yes, Haynes is a set of books you will never regret owning. Always amazes me more people don't own it, when it is such a monumental work.

Apologizing for bordering on cliche, yet here goes: They stress it is opinion. It changes. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes not. I've see green papers where the item gets resubmitted and I think the green papers are more correct than the new ones. Especially recently with the NBTHK supposedly having a huge backlog. Very sloppy at the Hozon level. On the flipside I get impressed by some NBTHK calls as I slowly learn more and some of their calls unravel to me. I also respect and yet am sometimes bothered by how strict the Yoshikawa NTHK seems to be on papering items. But then the other NTHK seems a bit too carefree and papers many fittings that I don't think should get papers.... but hey....that is just my opinion. It could change. Milt, ~my opinion~ is they (Yoshikawa) should have papered that kozuka of yours- but maybe I need to study more. ______________________________________________________________________________ Regarding John's question... I don't know with swords. The answer seems to be 'it depends'. It is understood in some schools (like Hizen) and even occassionally noted or implied on sword papers. As for fittings, Peter is right in that gimei is gimei most of the time. I've attached an image of a tsuba I own and enjoy. I believe it to be signed by Norisuke I on the front and Norisuke II (early signature was Norishige) on the back. The Norisuke were known as master forgery artists, often commissioned to make copies of famous pieces. They also made their own designs. This design (photos) is one of the last designs ever done by Norisuke I slightly before his death, but I think the overall working is by the hand of Norisuke II. Norisuke II is considered to be slightly more talented than Norisuke I. Despite both Norisuke I & II being very prolific, no one in Japan or elsewhere seems to have ever seen a joint signed work- so I was very happy to come by this tsuba! Now the interesting part: There are one or two things about the signature by Norisuke I on the front that I was unsure about, but then the two major Norisuke books seem to disagree amongst themsleves. I sent all this to the NBTHK and have not heard back. Okay, so I track down an individual in Japan that is widely respected for his knowledge and has a strong interest in Norisuke... His opinion is that the tsuba was done by Norisuke II and that Norisuke II forged his teachers signature on the front! If that is true.... how would you classify this tsuba? Does a forgery of a famous forgery master by his adopted son and student master forgery artist = gimei ? It is easiest for me to hold the idea that this was a tsuba completed by student for his teacher when his teacher could no longer complete a commission.... ... but how does the current papering paradigm of 'shoshin' treat such a thing? Short version: I haven't got an answer for you John. I think the Yoshikawa NTHK does much more than the NBTHK to educate, but I'm not sure they can go to that level of detail at shinsa and give a 'conditional qualifier' papers... but I certainly understand. If the gentleman in Japan is correct and were to bounce the Norisuke tsuba because of the signature on the front, I am not going to think anything less of this tsuba. Curran

One of the list members corrected me: The fuchi / kashira at Choshuya was on the website at 450,000 yen but seems to have been drawn off the website. It was in the January issue of the catalog at 400,000 yen. They'd somehow 3-D functioned its view. Shozui work often seems to be noted by at least a few elements of recess into the object and the rest built up to give it a 3-D effect. On my fuchi / kashira, the 4th leg of the deer is recessed into the kashira. The 1st leg is built up slightly as if standing out a bit more. it was explained to me that a kantei point is also the gauge (correct use of the term ?) of his materials tends to be very thick. Ie. The walls of his fuchi/kashira and the central copper plate are very thick compared to the fuchi of other makers. That would stand with the kozuka Peter listed, as the material looks 'plush'. For whatever reason, there are an awful lot of gimei of his work out there. But he also lived a long life and produced a good bit. It is within my ability to believe that some of his students signed works with his name. As the '4th member' of the Nara San-Saku... he was popular. Perhaps it was superstition against saying the Nara Yon-Saku? Pops up alot. Iesuke derves the #3 slot among Oei Bizen swordsmiths, but it is more fun to say Oei no San Mitsu (3 Mitsu of Oei: Yasumitsu, Morimitsu, and Moromitsu) than place Iesuke at #3. Random thought of the day. Shozui got shafted. I really like some of the Shozui menuki, but am mostly an iron collector. I haven't picked up the Nara-San Saku book. Peter, is this the one in which the writer expoused his own views and much of the Japanese authorities disagree with him... or am I confusing it with another text? There is one in which the photography is all black and white, which is a shame for the colorful kinko work photographed.

It looks gimei to my eyes. $1000 seems a bit much, but then a papered f/k by Shozui is on Choshuya for 400,000 yen. Was worth a gamble for somebody. I'm surprised one without papers went for so much. I have a Shozui f/k in a fitted custom box with NBTHK Hozon papers that I was thinking of consigning with a dealer or selling to a Japanese dealer, but if if a gimei one can bring so much- maybe I should give eBay a whirl at it first.

Dear Bear Sterns, $2 ? Love, J.P. Morgan P.S. For those of you not familiar with the current shennanigans in I-banking, the real bargains were had Monday purchasing a $7.5 billion dollar bank for $250 million.

For those interested: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnycurran Bid early, bid often. Help fund my wife's new silverware habit. Curran

Dear Reinhard, I do not understand your point. Please explain more. The Hirotoshi tsuba of the cranes looks to be gimei. Did you intend to illustrate this? I have attached a tsuba by Hirotoshi (aka. Hironaga). Sorry that the image is highly reflective, so it looks poor. It was papered by NBTHK to the founder of the Uchikoshi (sp?) school.

An individual not near any sword clubs has sent me some photos of a sword that appears to be a WW2 made blade. Blade is signed Bishu ju Masatsune. A clean signature. I know very little about the WW2 smiths and don't have the Slough book. Anyone familiar with this smith or can point me to more information?

Very nice. Thank you for sharing.

A quick picture added. Apology for the self reflection in the glass, as it muddles the image a bit.

Thanks to all of you for this considerable help. This has been the 'mystery' painting in our house for years now. I have never been able to read the signature. I am much more comfortable with western painting history and technique. My wife and I both appreciate Japanisme / Art Nouveau and the echoes of its influence in places like Glasgow and the USA. We also see many works where Japanese artist studied in Europe or european modes. I think this painting is from 1870 to 1910? I am much more comfortable dating canvas and frames than I am silk. Checking the back of the frame, the wood, and the tooling of some of the fasteners, I think the frame is closer to 100 years old. The painting has been with the frame a long time. The glass is very old with micro bubbling. There are elements about the frame that make me wonder if it was not made by a turn of century furniture maker. The silk shows fine age, and could be considerably older- ....... but the painting style has some european rendering tricks such as the birds slight head turn relative to the flowers and the brushstroke pattern in the way that some of the flower buds are rendered. I have been wrong before, thinking something of nature theme shows European influence- only to find it predates most european influence. But it is a bit strong in this painting. The full scale painting is understated, but very good to excellent. Given its size, I wonder if it was not a screen panel? The dark wood drame works, but a heavy mantle for the painting. The painting seems too large for a scroll. It is likely the artist is minor or unknown. The brushwork is exception and layout is very well rendered, but there were wave after wave of exceptional art and artists during those years. Okada Oson or another late 1800s artist is more likely. Thank you again. It feels great to finally make progress with this painting. Best wishes, Curran

Moriyama-san, Thank you for posting those links. There were many interesting ones in there, and I find some of the style rendering elements interesting. My primary hobby or interest is painting, though I know little of Japanese schools and next to nothing about Japanese prints. I would like to ask a favor for help with a painting that I believe is Japanese. It was purchased from Denmark a number of years ago. It is on silk and framed. Frame age is 75 to 100 years old and been with the painting for a considerable amount of time, so the painting is no younger than that. The painting is on silk and the size is 60 cm wide by 130 cm tall. Design is vine and flowers with a sparrow in the center. Silk is old, but the rendering is somewhat of western perspective, so I have always thought the painting dates from 1850 to 1900. I enjoy this painting, but I know nothing about its age or the painter. I have tried before in other forums to learn more, but never gotten response. I can provide more pictures. I deeply appreciate any help or direction to individuals that can help me identify this painting or to learn more about the artist. Curran Campbell

Auction is over now, so those with the courage and energy to stick their necks out please feel free to speak: I choose to disagree. Think it a nice fake. Too many odd things about the signature. Filing looks a bit off. Hada looks a bit off. Stamp is a bit different in the detail from the reference ones I have for Sadakazu. Wish the best to the new owner. The seller only guaranteed it to be Japanese, which it is. No legit reasons to cancel this auction, so we shouldn't see it again? Why is it worth 10k(?) when I can buy the NBTHK papered one with koshirae and a nice gold mon habaki from a decent dealer for $7500. Counterarguement: horimono and dated would add value. Still, I don't seen is worth 10k. It is a nice looking nihonto fish knife. If legit, it is perhaps a small bargain- but I'd much rather have Jacques example.

Jacques, Thank you for the photo. Beautiful. I have looked at a few more examples recently. I agree with your opinion.

Price at the time was sub $700. I initially thought this was legit, but had a few concerns. The more I have studied it, the more I have doubts. I checked with someone smarter than me, and they also have serious doubts. It may be legit and a nice Gassan tanto is on my wish list of things I'd like to own, but I will leave this to the gamblers out there. As I've joked before- my day job is as a professional gambler of sorts. When my hobbies feel too much like work, I'm not interested. Some people have had great finds on eBay, including at least one or two that have supposedly gone Juyo. I'll keep to my nice fittings collection. If someone wants to trade a nice papered Sadakazu or Sadakatsu tanto for a fittings+cash- I'm open to negotiation. Curran

On consignment and with No Papers. There is something about the cutting of the signature that bothers me, and also an issue with the stamp being close but different to few references I have. Still, the smith had a long career. Needs further study. I've dealt with the seller twice before. Both times item was nice but with some damage. Still, price was fair both times. Both had a return policy, though this tanto seems to only have a return policy if not Japanese. As Mark said, at the current price it is worth it even if gimei. Beyond that it is a gamble. Curran

Thank you. I haven't learned much about Mon to date. Work has been seriously cutting into Nihonto time, so not sure this will be the Christmas season I put a Mon book into my own stocking. Many of the late Edo kinko seem to have multiple mon mixed and matched on them.

Dear John, Thanks for the post of the Mon book. Should pick it up. You posted the one page with Mon similar to Johannes. I cannot see the kanji of the specific mon. Attached is an image of a mon tsuba by Isso (NBTHK Hozon, student of Ichijo). Can you identify the one mon that is similar to Johannes? I've tried web search before, but did not get a good answer for that mon. Best regards,

I noticed a friend in the UK with a good collection has posted a nice tsuba signed "Yasuchika" to eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Sword-Shib ... dZViewItem Interesting topic of a monkey trainer. I'd heard this is an anti-shogunal sub-reference. Anyone able to share more info on that topic? Curran

Been away for awhile. Now finally back at home, after a few months. Tsuba D- Peter is right (he usually is, I just get to nod in agreement). Similar tsuba on Aoi Arts, right down to the mon. Tsuba E- Not having the wisdom of others to admit they don't know, I'll open my mouth and guess that this is some sort of Umetada 'inspired' later work. I have seen this sort of design before, usually as base work for someone claiming to be student of the Umetada school or such. Tsuba F- Ok... I don't know. I'd swear I'd seen this tsuba before in an old auction catalog or elsewhere. Interesting female monkey and gourd. Need to think and research this one, as I get my little library of books out of storage soon. C.C.C.

Waves happen... I had not seen many of these for a while, then seen 3 signed ones in the past 3 months. It happens.

Doctor, *VERY* Quick impressions- (A) Shoami Subschool- One of the better ones. (B) Shoami © Shoami or Hayashi- I've always liked the © tsuba design. I've seen two that I would call Hayashi. The others I would say mostly lean towards Higo work, but they sometimes come out of the NBTHK with Shoami papers. I've seen a few where I agree with more of a Shoami call, but seen one where I think the NBTHK made a wrong call. Aoi arts had one of these tsuba up recently. I own one w/ old lacquer on it. Yours has got some interesting mon in it. Attached should be an image from one of my books.

Having reached far and wide across the world for information on this one: One scholar says, "paper notation is Mitsuyoshi Ji ( temple). I believe it is the main decoration, or theme on the inlaid. I understand it is a shakudo ground tsuba. The NBTHK cannot be sure of the maker, or school in this case". A gentleman from Japan says, "I can't say exactly it is Kozenji or not. But I think that from the photo is like Kozenji. But I need to see it.". I'd rather believe it is "Kozenji" than that the NBTHK said "We don't know, here is Toku Hozon papers". This was also Moriyama-san and Rich Turner's recommended reading. I am hoping the Japanese gentleman will explain further. I have the highest respect for his knowledge, but communication with him can be very sporadic. Anyone know what or who is "Kozenji"? Open those books. Help the kid!

Brian, Milt, Robert, etc.- I remember the Benson article in Bushido article. Good photos. Yes, done in layers and then removed. The real stuff does command higher prices. Someone had a nice set at the Tampa show a year or two ago. The tsuba looks as Milt said- lower end dock work. Doesn't make sense. Someone mis-match a set of fittings? A sword coming out of a Christies NYC auction a few years ago had a fuchi / kashira like this, but none of the other fittings matched. Had a Goto kogai shoved in a slot too small for it. Kogai anf f/k were worth a fair bit more than the sword. Brian's little blurb contained more information than I know off the top of my head. Like Trickie, I prefer the old iron though occassionally seduced by kinko now and then. Robert- congrats.