Curran

Peter D, Surprised no one has gotten back to you further. As Morita-san said. "Goto Mitsuyuki w/ Kao". I haven't got my black belt in the Goto school and 16 sub schools.... Always got to hit the books on them. Goto Mitsuyuki doesn't appear mainline and I didn't have an obvious match with a sub-line. Problem with the Goto is often something as easy as 'Mitsuyuki' must be looked up under an alternate reading. Easier if it is mainline. Harder if I must go trailing down centuries of sub schools. ie. No promises for a match from me. signature is cleaner than most, so maybe not? gimei. Just for Sh*ts and giggles, give me an image of the frontside that I can judge the workmanship for my own sake (privately). Post here or PM me.

Ken- Good to hear from you / see you post. Peter D- I don't think it generic. I rather like Mino work, sometimes more so than the ko-mino which is often given higher financial value. To me: much of the appeal of any Mino piece is in the quality of the workmanship and materials than the design. In particular, I enjoy some of the very deeply angled undercut pieces. I don't collect kogai and they don't often turn my head, but there was a ko-mino one a while back that had age, depth, and high grade material. All shakudo... it certainly made me stop and stare a bit like a love wrought teenager. My opinion is that this is a much much nicer tsuba than the usual "What is it?" tsuba posted to this forum on a regular basis.

The Mini tsuba I posted had similar work on the sides. I believe it was all the actual design work on the sides was covered in gold, though not 100% sure. You can see the edges of the gold on the mimi in the photo. I feel it was early Edo work (1600s), hence the Mino vs. Ko-Mino attribution. I'll like these tsuba very much, though some friends disagree with me in their appeal. Papering: opinions will vary. I think yours is a nicer tsuba maybe worth the expense of papering (documenting), but not sure if it adds monetary value. When something is clearly what it is and unsigned- such as Hazama or Kamakura tsuba I have with old green papers, I don't see much sense in new papers. But some people like the comfort of a confirmation on it if/when it comes time to sell it.

Nice. I would say it is straight up Edo Mino work, but leave it to Peter or Ford to know better whether to call it Mino Goto or not. Attached is an image of a tsuba that was in Hawaii for a while and then eventually Fred Weissberg sold it via Nihonto.com. I think the image was from his site. It was papered Toku Hozon to Mino and the undercutting on it was deep. I enjoyed it and would have liked to own it at some point.

Mark, Great photos of the nakago you posted today. --Camera work and I mix worse than oil and water-- I expected Tom or Ted T. to come along and hit the nail on the head, but I think I will try and take a break from my gawd awful work to crack open the mini library and see if I cannot make sense of what I see. I still don't understand the hamon. Any Nie at all? If so, where and what sort of distribution?

Thank you to the 3 gents who were quick with the reply.

I haven't corresponded with Aoi Arts or Tsuruta-san in ages. I noticed they've taken down their general email address off the site. What is the best way to correspond with them / ask them a question, when not buying an item? Anyone who knows, please PM the best email address to me.

Thought I claim to have gone entirely over to the dark side (just fittings collection), I can be lured out now and then to look an an interesting one. The geometry has been softened, but the jigane looks nice. Had a good polish at one point. The nakago was canted a bit? or it it just the horimono a bit strange there. Could be? My first impression from the jigane and general shape (pre/post shortening).... I was surprised to see you describe the hamon as o-notare ba, yet with chu-kissaki and ko-itame. But interesting looking jigane. Hope more is revealed as you study it.

why so wry? a scottish whit in Switzerland.

As Brian said- very strange geometry. Dulled and rounded yokote, but mirror like finish. Very abrupt and small kissaki relative to the cross section further down. Dramatic taper. Someone like Stephen would need to look at the kissaki in person to determine what is going on there to try and reverse engineer what gave this wak such geometry.

I wouldn't say she indulges so much. She wonders why I ask her opinion sometimes. My reason is that she has a great aesthetic sense and can cut to the core of the appeal or lack there of with lightning speed. We don't always agree, but sometimes her deconstruction of a tsuba design is insightful to me in a way that borders on Ford's ability as an artisan to view certain tsuba. Signatures mean nothing to her. Workmanship does. She's particularly harsh on Higo "button" tsuba and certain "caveman" tsuba. Never the less, I remain on the lookout for certain ko-katchushi or ko-tosho designs. She likes the Otsuki you have, though not fond of deer. I've passed some by because of her opinion, but also only noticed 2 or 3 gems because she stopped me and made me look closer at them (online images). The Kozenji is one of them. _________________________________________________ I think it was either Tom Helm or Ted Tenold that near dies of a laughing fit one day when I shared that she described a well known brown Hazama tsuba of Rice Bales as "looking like Serena William's butt checks". Women....

Yep. Saw that. Hopefully the traffic can be increased. Good to see advert already. Only regret is that it still lands on Valentine's Day & (also wife's B-Day). Makes me choose between my loves.

Wow. The Ono-Norisuke looks better in your photo than it did in theirs. Came with a better quality box too? It is more balanced in perspective and imagined on a sword at the waist rather then 8 inches wide and 10 inches tall on my workstation monitor. Not much one for cranes, but wish I owned it I am still 1 over my limit currently. I am very obliged to you for Kozenji tsuba information. I know next to nothing about the group. When I found mine, it was via poor photos that made it look brown iron and both wife and I thought the keyfrett pattern was painted on. When it showed up and we realized the gold was wire inlay, it made me pause. I had no idea what it was. The only drawback is small catalog collection number painted on the seppa dai. I do not know how to remove it without risking damage to the shakudo, so I'll live with it. When the NBTHK papers came back to me years ago.... I wondered "what the hell school is this?" Curran

Thanks George, Ford, and Keith. As for 'San'.... I am just Curran. Certainly not Sama. Sometimes San. Mostly just.

Green papers. The blue papers are a nice light blue. Koshirae looks like it could be nice. If you want my 2cent opinion, send pictures via PM.

I played with a fired tsuba in my early days of collecting and learned enough from it to manage to spot and avoid other fired tsuba. Not always able to tell from a photo.... If a person wants to be a serious iron tsuba collector, I think maybe they should own a fired tsuba at some point. Take up a piece of antler or ivory and try to follow the instructions on Jim Gilbert's website as how to work active rust off a tsuba. The results with a fired tsuba might be a pain in the arse, but it is an education that will last a lifetime. Unfortunately, to be sure it often requires seeing it in person. It has been so long since I've dealt with a fired tsuba, that I wanted to see whether others thought this one on Aoi was or wasn't flamed.

Okay... putting aside that this one looks like it was altered for WW2 service (cliphole)- http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/tsuba/F09869.html What do Ford and other's think has gone on with the surface of this one: Loss of heavy laccquer? Patina somehow shorn off? or just a rusty scaly bugger waiting to be loved back into some semblance of its former incarnation? I like the tsuba, as I'm a sucker for the rings design. I don't want to say this one has been in a fire, because while it looks like it at certain places... I don't see the pie crust flake, boil, or dryness in abundance that usually confirms cooked tsuba. Any opinions? This is just for my own curiosity.

Just for sake of discussion, posting the Kozenji I have. Sort of the oddball in my small collection.

Yes, that is the book. The Norisuke tsuba I have is the design shown as Shodai's signed 1851 work, but the example I have is done by the nidai with the Nidai's early signature "Norishige". The design is simple, but it is one of my favorite tsuba. Thank you for the Kozenji link. That is a very good blog. I wish to understand any kantei points for Kozenji tsuba, but I find it very difficult other than the heavy use of keyfrett (or old "brocade") design. With the Kozenji tsuba I own, the design is done by gold wire inlaid into the shakudo and polished flat with the shakudo. Maybe this is typical of Kozenji. Curran

Kiyo-san, (Morita-San) I do not see it as "Sold", but the browser always takes me to English version of the website. :? Well, maybe I helped find this tsuba a good new home or it just was fortunate to sell now. Crane motif is not my favorite, -though I like it paired with longevity turtle. But for some reason I love good Norisuke tsuba, and will wonder if this is really a Norisuke tsuba. I wish I could see it in person. I don't know why I always confuse the "Big Blue Book" and call it the Owari Tosando book when I know the correct name is "Owari to Mikawa no tanko". I purchased the book used from a friend at a good price and it was one of the best book purchases I have made. When I was a foreign exchange student to Japan , I wanted to be sent to the Kyoto area. Instead it is good I was in Nagoya area, as many of the things Nihonto I appreciate are more from this area. This tsuba is in the Owari to Mikawa no tanko book: http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/tu ... d1575.html It is the face silhouette of a chuby cheeked girl. I like this tsuba and the Kunitomo school, but it is beyond my budget these days. I've been tempted to try and negotiate trade+cash with them, but never know if this is polite. Some dealers don't mind. One or two do. I have only purchased books from this shop. ________________________________________________________________ Morita-san: do you know of any Japanese references or articles on "Kozenji" tsuba (Owari kinko artists)? There is almost nothing in English. I have a tsuba papered to this school, and I continue to look for more information. To the best of my knowledge: There is nothing in English.

Morita-san (can I say sama if truly grateful ?) Yes, that is the book, though I didn't bother reading the last character. Published by Nagoya NBTHK at some point. For Norisuke, I think the "Big Blue Book" (Owari Tosando ____) is also very good, though I have minor disagreement about their opinion on signature varaitions between Gen1 and Gen2 of the Norisuke family. The Big Blue Book has some nice examples not seen in the Futabayama Norisuke (Ko) book. Curran

Found the tsuba I was looking for... An Umetada I owned many years ago with some damage. Someone had pried out most of the silver centers to the clematis vine flowers. What I took away from this tsuba and other Umetada school of the time was a high degree of detail but not much depth to the engraving. Also the use of silver or gold and silver dots to give a feel of activity to the engraving. Patina is usually more of a black than a brown. Peter mentioned Kodai (later period) Jingo. I hadn't really thought of that. He considers more the plate surface and the shape. That would be a strike against my opinion of later Umetada, as they are usually relatively smooth surfaced. Ford- thanks for agreeing with me, but they won't make me a shinsa judge in this lifetime...

Silver beading and the sort of carving made me think later Umetada. But I would probably expect it to be signed in that case. Generated lots of different opinions on this one.

Paul and Morita-san, Here is the link. The tsuba has been up for sale for a while: http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/tuba_guard1633.htm Appropriately enough, being sold from a shop in Nagoya. Have a go at it if you like. Price is good (just my opinion). I didn't understand the "Ichimonji" until last night. I had forgotten that Ichimonji was one of the many art names of Norisuke. That makes much more sense now. Curran

Dear Morita-san, Your reading was extremely helpful. I thought I read "Ichimonji", but that I must be wrong. I could not read it all. No, I do not own this tsuba. I have seen this design and it is papered by the NBTHK as "Ono" Tsuba. The "Ono" tsuba does not look like Norisuke workmanship to me, but it is sometimes hard to tell. I like both Norisuke tsuba and Ono tsuba. I keep one good example of each. My collection is small. Some day I hope to find a good example of Norisuke copy of Yagyu "Waves and Moon" style design. Curran Attached: Norisuke tsuba- joint work c.1851-1852