Curran

Tim, Thank you for the posts. Enjoyed the translation and the Haynes discussion of the Nara tsuba. I look at the photo (in its cleaned state) and see nothing particularly wrong with it as it is now. Tim wrote, "It takes practice and judgement to conserve a tsuba - I see it as being the equivalent of polishing a sword. However there is no formal apprentice system to teach people how."- I think this is what I hoped someone would say. With the subjectivity being so great on tsuba and no formal apprentice system, it is a learn as you go process. I think I started with Jim Gilbert's article a long time ago, experimented considerably on half a dozen ebay grade tsuba of different types, read a bunch of differing sources of opinion, talked to a few people who were and will almost certainly always remain ahead of me in their knowledge. I still think I learned the most from a single tsuba I think I mentioned earlier in this thread. An Edo tsuba of particularly good s-fold forging, I cautiously worked the ebb and flow of it with bone, ivory, cloth, etc for months in the pale but perfect restoration lighting of a Philadelphia fall and winter. In the end, I overdid it slightly. That Panzer tank hard tsuba with the beautiful grain just wouldn't heal as I tried years of slow methodical relatively natural inducements to undo the slight overshoot. ---It was like watching a glacier move. Read up, get the tools, practice on so many that you don't care about much before risking one you do care about. I totally destroyed a low end Choshu in my learning curve, but don't feel remotely bad about that relative to the Edo tsuba that I slightly overcleaned. Saved it from its rust pimpled state, but don't think it will be 100% proper presentable for quite a few years.

Reinhard, Thank you for taking the lead on this. I should have made more of an effort to realize it was a date that I was starting with. Morita-san, Thank you for explaining to us. I would not have been able to translate this. I will try and see if I can post a better image to see if the location name can be deciphered.

Steve, Not pro or con on the Sasano advice. Please don't forget Peter's perfect example in the context that it was questioned who cared for his tsuba later- before the second book was produced. Peter, Interesting example. The Sasano Hirata I passed on purchasing had this same sort of micro dotting that can be seen on the c.1994 tsuba you posted. Not on the earlier one. Strange and wonder what did this.

Do a pencil or traditional rubbing stencil of the nakago? Or hand drawing of the characters if they are highly legible? As someone who is photography handicapped, you have my sympathy. My complaint is my wife is a phenomenal photographer, but hates the digital camera. When the black magic of chem photography fell before the digital age, her cameras went into storage in our tansu. I'd rather herd 100 hyperactive kittens than try to get her to help with Nihonto photography. On that note, good luck.

If you are unsure of the reading of the signature, post a photo here. If sure of the reading, probably better to post this thread in the Nihonto specific section of the forum. Probably get more readers and comments there.

Charlie- Short of trying to carbon date it, nothing comes to mind. When I picked it up at auction, it was because I liked the simplicity and the deep patina of the wood. Lots of wear on it that has settled in without being damage. Seemed a bit older than the two late Edo tansu we have in the house, but I wasn't willing to go past 1825-1850 in dating it. Just told myself 1850ish. Signature wasn't shown or mentioned when I purchased it, and I'd forgotten about it. From my point of view; just curious to know what I can about it, enjoy it, and keep good care of it.

Reinhard, Thank you for this information. That date would make the kake older than I had estimated. I appreciate your help.

I've had this kake for quite some time. It is an old old one out of a light wood. I belatedly remembered it had writing on the bottom finishing with 'Saku kore" (the saku kore are cut off the bottom of photo, was too long for the scanner). Can anyone give me a decent read on it? it is a nice old kake, but the writing probably means "Property of Watanabe's Bathhouse, made by first son Watanabe". (just joking) Seriously.... Beyond my ability to read it. Anyone able to see it well enough, thank you in advance for a translation. Curran

Ford, Looks like a tough job for the folksy way I work on the the occasional tsuba. The moat around that tsuba would have taken me forever, and I confess to once giving up on a basketweave Bushu tsuba with a spray of rust on it. Keith- Ford or someone like Boris (Denizens of Vahalla, Boris is less frequent) will be quicker on the inorganic chemistry lesson. Cliff notes version: Magnetite is good. Rust is bad. Now go learn how to make magnetite

To be clear, I would never clean inside the sukashi as you would the rest of the tsuba. I do not believe the "never touch the inside of the sukashi". I do believe that *most people* should not. I think someone teaching communicated the idea that most people should not until they are comfortable with it such that they do no harm. Somewhere along the line it got simplified to "never touch the inside of the sukashi". As is, I am loathe to go inside the sukashi with anything other than a natural horse hair brush. Amazing what it can do and that which it might remove probably shouldn't be built up so loosely there. I can only think of one tsuba in the past decade where I made the judgement call to use a special thin tool fashioned from deer horn to go in to work areas inside the sukashi. I still have that tsuba and intend to keep it until I croak, so won't worry about disclosure until I am dead.

The Kaneiye Daruma tsuba has no red rust in other post year 2000 photography of it sent to me a few years ago. I doubt it did prior and suspect you are dealing more with photo quality in the three examples provided. Some felt Sasano overdid the cleaning on his tsuba. Not to the point of damage, but rather that they were just pristine and polished / brushed to a point at the edge of what others liked. I passed on one a few years ago after seeing it in hand and thinking it had been polished too porcelain clean for my liking. It is probably one of only 3 or 4 that I sincerely regret passing on in the last decade. My deep regrets to the former owner, who is on this list. Overcleaning is another issue. Do enough low level tsuba as hobby or learning experience and you will eventually decide/learn when you have gone too far. Definitely teaches you about a feel for iron. My 'too far' was an edo Tosho tsuba that I overdid a bit and spent the next few years trying to get the chemistry of patina to start naturally healing in. Feel a bit of guilt on that tsuba that it was a good one (not a great one) in that I took it from where it was to a healthy point, and then past that too much. With the exception of one extreme rescue tsuba that needed removal of considerable rust, I've never done it since. As for doing it within the sukashi. That is a harder lesson. But I agree. If you don't intervene on those with it in the sukashi... what you get is the Boston Museum collection..... Go and look at the iron ones in person some day. It saddened me to finally get to Boston. couldn't arrange a meet with Mr. Earle, so went with a college friend to the museum. A fair number of the beautiful tsuba are rusted through in the walls of the sukashi, though you wouldn't know from looking top down on the tsuba. Like a nice house where you lift up the siding and find the supports eatten through by termites. I regret to end it on that visual image. caring and cleaning for tsuba goes well beyond Jim Gilbert's article and there are 1 or 2 individuals who have accumulated decades of knowledge in it. But the ones I know don't "do the internet thing"... Curran

Like the idea, but find it hard to believe that water quench leaves a nice near ruler straight line of utsuri like that at an angle like that. Clay smeche. My mistake was not to read the sword was 'Ubu'. Still swear it looks shortened to me. Sigh. I'm going to go join Stephen and look at pretty younger swords with more leg and a much nicer pricetag.

Well f_ck it. It just seemed straight forward to me that it had been moved up about a finger / Japanese thumb width. I look at it again and I still see it moved up about that amount and the other evidence I associate with localized heating to move it up. Didn't bother looking at the papers until now. That makes it a mess. If Ubu, then anyone able to explain the "mizukage" or illustrate the other points of a retemper on this blade? I don't see them, so who can explain the "mizukage" (Just for reference: I don't think it is mizukage), or give an alternate understanding as to why this blade is the way it is?

Peter is right.... should read "heated copper block". As for cutting the cheese... pull my finger Mr. Miami. But yes it was mocha cheese cake for desert on the B-day. I don't celebrate my birthday much more than a nice meal, but can always dream some rich sexy sugar mamma will buy me nice nihonto. Thank you for the well wishes. This sword is what it is: old as dirt, excellent condition, and signed. Well beyond my budget. As Brian stressed, it is not saiha. At least not in my opinion.

BaZZA, BaZZa, Bazza, *sigh*.... don't you know me well enough by now to realize I wouldn't be that bullheaded snarky? Of course the damn thing has on it what a gaggle of geese here would honk is 'mizukage' and a retemper. I don't agree with it. I see a beautiful old Bizen sword that seems to have had the hamachi moved up. Dear dear Brian, please forgive the thread hijacking- but we have a good room of people and example for this topic: Mizukage is not a Binary event where presence = full retemper. I'm not sure this sort of mist line is even indicative of 'Mizu'. Old debate from older Japanese is whether it involves a copper heated block. Would love to have a smith comment on what happens with the heat distribution along the blade in such a case. I am not even sure whether or not to get into this old debate, as my opinion is one way- but others just claim this 'retemper' appears and is seen in certain schools or smiths. I don't see the evidence of full retempers on these sort of swords and reject that it is a retemper. Okay, let us talk crazy for a bit: I also see it widely across enough schools within a specific pre Edo time period that I feel it was a technique of moving up the hamachi. It seems to mostly disappear pre Edo, but a regression analysis of dating and school of blades with it might fit nicely with the growth of the Bizen school up to its Wipe Out in the Osafune Flood. ---> this is just for fun speculation by me after thinking about it. Never been put to analysis yet, though the bulk of the swords I've seen with this mist are Bizen and the ocassional Yamashiro. Suitable examples have been seen in a scattershot of other Koto schools. Back to the sword: nice sword. Oh rich benefactor, please send to me. It is my birthday and I need something fabulous to cut the cake. Curran

Here: http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f93895623 I was debating placing a bid on it, but have enough else to deal with at the moment. I think I like your original one better.

There is another Tomotsugu like this up for sale in Japan right now.

I would leave the kodachi vs. wakizashi explanation to someone better versed in it. Tokubetsu Juyo signed. Beautiful sword, right down to the old "battle cut" in it. Maybe someone can also comment on the way the hamon ends at the current hamachi.

Mike, I seem to be infinitely more comfortable with fittings signatures than sword signatures. Just the way it is. I'm just trying to follow an interesting thread where you are correct in that you have the smith alive to verify. Yoshihara san or someone once was signing a sword and story goes he wasn't happy with a particular strike, looked up and said "100 years, this 'gimei'" with a smile. Maybe urban nihonto legend, but makes for a good point. Don't pass my comment back to the smith. My own signature being rather stiff lackluster cursive that it is, who the hell am I to comment on someone else's signature?

Mike, To be 100% clear, I understand the date variation and the 'Ono' variation, but the chippy 'Yoshi' is actually the correct one? Usually a bad sign on soft metal fittings signatures, but correct in this case? Working from the examples Eric or someone else posted, I would have thought that A was a better match (being more relaxed) would have been more likely to be correct.

Signed Myochin: Good to see someone buy a nice piece with an interesting joint signature and papers. As Myochin work, probably very hard feeling to it when you have it in hand. Collect what information you can on the signers and keep it with the tsuba. Thank you for sharing this.

Lived in Jersey City for 10 years (and Phili for 2). Several good collectors in the Garden State. Do yourself a favor and join the NY Metro Club if you can. Make friends in the club. Give it time and learn from the ones you choose. Save yourself lots of newbie mistakes.

I believe there was/is a Muramasa tanto for sale on one of the Japanese websites. I like his some aspects of his work, but not so much others. Perhaps more popular for the reputation factor than for the workmanship. Also, despite all the anti Muramasa sentiment, if you flip through the Tokugawa Collection book you will see one of their swords is a Muramasa. The bedside spear Muramasa Darcy had was a cool item. By this I mean the koshirae was excellent as well as the pop culture appeal of being a Muramasa. Darcy said the koshirae was quite heavy. I greatly wanted to see it before he sold it. It represented a nice little complete package. But then the thing has changed hands 3 times in the past 5 years, so maybe it is cursed. Still- quite the icy nice complete item for a non Juyo. Sold very fast last time it came up, if it was even up for a day. Even (or especially) if the spearhead had been a Shimosaka rather than a Muramasa, I would loved to own it for the koshirae.

Jason, It looks like you have pulled a nice sword out of the woodwork. The jigane looks tight. This may turn into another "polish" debate by the others, because of the evidence in how it is being done from the photos. PS. I can't identify the polisher by the photo reflection, but maybe someone else will. Your choice and theirs to sit on the ID, as it really is mostly your business. If you know or have a clue to the ID of the sword, please tell us. Going off the little geometry I can see and what I can of the metal, I'm going to take a lean that it is shinto or shinshinto. Photo of the nakago might help. Have no clue as to the hamon, but this might be a sword that would benefit from Hadori though I definitely fall into the sashikomi camp. Very hard to say, not being able to see the hamon at all. Don't know. Initial results got me curious. March to your own drum on this one, but listen to the voices here and maybe something will stick for future use.

It is a vast oversimplification, but Ono tend to be of simpler design and sandy of texture. Also, some designs are considered Ono- though I am not sure why other than habit. Someone from Europe recently had an "Ono" design for sale. That particular design always seems to be called Ono. Attached is an image of an Ono I own and another that I wish I had purchased when I had the chance. Temple Bell one is mine. Ono often fall between Yagyu and Kanayama attributes for a variety of reasons. Most tend to be thicker than average, but some are not.