Curran

I have been away for a while and will continue to be away as I deal with business / family issues. This is just a quick drop in, and forgive me if I don't reply to any posts. Ed has posted some excellent true early and mid period Yagyy tsuba. I suspect he took these photos many years ago at the San Fran exhibit? It took me years to find a good mid-period Yagyu tsuba for my little collection. See 1 or 2 early period such as the Bamboo ones Ed has photographed and handle them, and you won't confuse other tsuba for them. See or handle one or two, and you have an education. *** Early period Yagyu tsuba have a very distinct multiple layer forging in them. I must strongly disagree with Rokujuro's comments. *** Who knows why or how this is, but it is very important strong kantei point. Even the most brilliant Norisuke copies don't get this aspect right. True early period Yagyu are extremely valuable and expensive ($10000 to $30000). They may not be your cup of tea, but take any opportunity you have to see them. Mid period are more in the $2000 to $10000 range depending upon design+condition and may lack the distinct multiple layer folding, but still the distinct grain iron is such that you will never confuse them with kodai Yagyu to be found. They are much much much more common and are worth $750 to $2000. An example of Kodai Yagyu is here: http://www.nihonto.com/11.2.09.html Just my opinion: 1 early period, for every 5 to 10 mid period, to every 50 kodai yagyu. Good early period Yagyu are rare, rare, rare. Most you see in books are Mid-period, or low end of 1st period. Many of those in the European NBTHK book strike me as middle period, and not even particularly nice examples. This tsuba for discussion might be kodai Yagyu, but probably it is just something else.

Ford, for whatever reason, you have PM disabled. Just for giggles, here is a cute copy for sale in Japan: http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g111424128

To ask the almost verboten: does anyone think Skip would sell a cast? My cumulative experience opinion is "No". He has saved me from an error or two before. ~~In this instance David has the safety of purchasing from what I believe to be two reputable people. _______________________________________________________________________ My monitor and viewer isn't the best, and my photoviewer program is a laughable antique. I must admit I just assumed these were shakudo inserts. I do seem to recall that I have seen faux iron sekigane on a real tsuba before, though I readily admit it doesn't make much sense and I would be hard pressed to recall where or find a photo of it. I will try.

Don't forget the monkey at 2 pm position carrying the banner. Always one of them worked into the better pieces. I forget the significance. Nice example of Mitsuhiro. As the Doctor hints, the Bushido article is one of the best on these tsubako. ___________________________________________________________________________________ As to Namban, there is a Japanese paperback book on them. Not incredibly informative. You'd do as well or better to read Dr. L's book or Peter Bleeds writing on them. Many many are of low quality manufacture. Some are not. In the past 10 years I have seen many less of the higher end ones. Like WW2 swords, the good ones seem to be getting more respect during the last decade.

I see it as Malcolm did. 8 or 9 depending upon whether you count the central one.

I agree as to workmanship. I think there were a few especially good ones in that sell. I am curious who got the Ikkin. It was a subdued piece, but I thought it legit for maybe 2nd gen. These go for a good bit more in Japan. I owned one once and sold it to one of the big Japan shops. I see the mon clearly 8 times per side = 16 times (?) 4 times clearly in positive, and 4 times not so obvious in larger negative silhouette. I am not sure about counting the 9th as legit. Hayashi is the Higo school with which I have least experience. They are often the most 'exact' or precise of the Higo in terms of execution. It is easy to miss the secondary qualities such as the negative silhouette of the mon.

Mr. Stiles, I know who else was behind you in line to get this one. This solves the mystery of who got to it before him. I would need to go back to check the emails, but believe his attribution was close or same as yours. One of the tsuba most interesting to me from that sale is still available, but I find myself needing to be fiscally more responsible at the moment. Nice to see other people's good stuff, even if from afar.

Oh Christian... My hero! You have saved me from the sea of kodogu shiite flowing across... This is a nice Norisuke hommage to Saotome. It is not my favorite design, but such a nice tsuba. Image is from Nagoya NBTHK Norisuke book.

Why do you feel this one may not be legit?

Alex, The owner has been around NMB a few years and probably learned a thing or two. Please let him start off with his own observations and thoughts before we get very in depth on this one.

Eric: Love the antique #4. Beautifully understated piece. Who made #7. European artist? Ron: Concave? Yes, that is off the beaten path. Photo certainly doesn't show it. Any chance of getting a side or angled photo of it?

Seen this one many times over the years. I looked in a few lesser known / lesser owned books where I thought this tsuba might be presented. To my surprise, it wasn't represented in any of the ones I checked. Still a few to go. When researching a rare tsuba years ago, I old fashioned wrote and mailed to the NBTHK. I received _hand written_ in English replies that helped. You may be surprised by what they can provide to you in this manner. (?)

Shippo desu.

I like this thread. Favorite so far is the one RKG posted, though he must show the tanto that goes with it. I have a Goto menuki and kozuka set designed for a tanto that would go with his habaki, though it might be too much mon on a small blade? Here is an antique ones from a Yasumitsu sword.

THE CRAFT OF THE Japanese SWORD Leon & Hiroko Kapp, and Yoshindo Yoshihara Details the creation of the sword as the combined efforts of: the smith, polisher, habaki and fittings maker, and saya maker. The contributions of each is detailed with step by step photographs accompanying detailed text and many examples. In addition, comparisons of koto and shinsaku blades are included with color, b&w photos, and many illustrations throughout. 167 pages, 7½ x 10½" hardcover $45.00 -- I always forget this one. It is simple but excellent.

Bang on for early Saotome work.

David, How thick it the tsuba at the seppa dai vs at the mimi? Probably about 2mm to 3mm at the seppa dai?

WIth David's, the Christian cross theory doesn't hold water for me. I hope this doesn't turn into too much of a discussion along that path.______________________ The tsuba is a simple and nice tsuba probably of the Saotome school. If more photos were provided, it is probably very thin and of hardness that reminds one of point hardened tank armor. Had a bit of what I would call depleted uranium dark blue-black color to it. Some have more of a volcanic rock type of tactile black feel. Light, clean, nimble in design, and they fell almost impervious to rust. I am partial to them, though not so much to the Tembo hot stamp tsuba that came concurrently and thereafter. Earlier Saotome may not be very complex of designs, but are very functional and pleasant.

Mm. Nice example of Tohachi. Thank you for sharing that photo. Going to save me down a copy, and I should buy the Hayashi book sooner or later. I think I read that the design was started by Matashichi, but I cannot find the reference. Ito-san says in the Nishigaki section on Kampei that this design probably started in the Hayashi school. Anyway, lots of cross pollination among the original Higo artisans. ~And then there is the derivative Edo-Higo flashy knock-offs: heavy on design elements and light on quality. The Jingo wannabe tsuba that started this thread probably is a late Edo period knockoff for export or merchant grade ware. Good future reference point for comparison to a very nice Shimizu (aka Jingo). Photos rarely do the Shimizu proper justice. More so than with other schools, study of a good Shimizu en Vivo provides that Smack-Forehead-Now_I_Understand moments.

That would be a nice one to own for a few years. For comparison, here are examples of the Nishigaki design. I don't have the Hayashi book, so cannot show the original.

:lol: Agree. Christian- there is much cross-over and overlap between the Higo schools and some from outside the Higo schools. Shimizu (aka. Jingo) <-> Nishigaki <-> Hayashi / Kamiyoshi Often current master of one school would teach the future master of another school. An example of the overlap would be Nidai Kanshiro (Nishigaki). He studied with the Goto Family. He was also influenced by the meticulous nature of Hayashi works. There are examples of his work both in Goto style and Hayashi style. Also, an example of design migration: The Yoshinogawa design (cherry blossoms on active water or waves) started in Hayashi school <?>, but became most popular as rendered by Nidai Kanshiro and his younger brother Kampei, then the design also shows up in the Yagyu school (for example, see Sasano silver book- I forget the #).

ditto.

Some big cat experience from my youth too. Not hands on as much as ~crazy (& wealthy guy) who created a small game preserve in Georgia~ and tried to share a bit with local youth. He had something to do with the invention or sale of tranquilizer guns in the USA. He gained local fame after getting into an argument with someone in the parking lot of a Home Depot. Shot the jerk in the leg with a tranquilizer gun he had in his truck. Local cops knew him well and regretted having to arrest him, as he was clearly in the right and at least hadn't used a real gun. Long distant memory now. Big cats in Georgia were quite the oddity. Infinitely more interesting than say the monkey preserve in Atlanta that Emory University and the CDC maintains for research purposes. Big cats are so different from other creatures. Personal memory aside: The problem with tigers is that the Japanese seem to place a small premium on fittings with them, with some themes and artists (tiger in rain looking up> commands a bigger multiple). So just take this with a grain of salt and be not surprised. Though they come up in Buddhist themes now and then, you won't see as many tiger themed tsuba as you would expect. You see a decent one you like, be willing to pay up for it a bit and grab it.

Ron, Yes, I'd noted in Haynes how the Kao of several Yoshiharu didn't seem that different to me. Mizukage was, is, and always will be a difficult topic. Sometimes the mizukage is hard and obvious and the jigane shows all the signs of retemper. Very rarely you get a straight edge mizukage right up and over the mune, and yet it seems to have had no impact on temper.... leaving one to wonder if it was one of the smiths where it is a trait in their forging. Then there are those with questionable partial 'mizukage' where many non-Japanese and significant number of Japanese argue it was a retemper. One list member here had a Bizen that Cary Condell and others swore was a retemper. I remember looking at the jigane and thinking, "hmm, the jigane is exactly as I would expect for (that particular smith)". The blade NBTHK papered (Toku Hozon?) easily, and I regret not having purchased it. I've seen quite a barrelful of these partial 'mizukage' over the years, and most I remember have gone on to paper. Not all. Discussion of it brings out quite a heated debate, with both sides rather stubborn about their opinions.

Jeff, Isn't that they are bad as much of the stuff on ebay and elsewhere now. They just are not good either. Claws carved with some Somen derivative notes, but the tigers themselves not very well done. Nanako isn't particularly clean, deep, or well done. Shakudo is a half decent color. Rock and leave renderings are typical stylistically of several small late Edo school. Sort of a hodgepodge work to my eyes.