Curran

Professor Emeritus, Think of this as an open classroom in a rather large class hall full of other classrooms. The lecture is Impromptu and students come in as they become aware of it. Many may only listen until they feel up to speed, or may simply listen. The response is much more slow and evolving than in the old email lists, but compounding over time. Some of the more famous or popular topics in the forums have lasted weeks, months, and even a few for years.... I'm still quite here, visiting the classroom whenever I can get a break from my professional work. Curran

Piers, For the most part, I think Chris B. worded everything very well. As for Nihonto version of a wine diary, it would be useful if a consensus could be reached. I doubt it could with the whole NTHK vs NPO NTHK. Both orgs suffer for it. I do think people heard there were some bad "green papers" and therefore think all green papers are junk, but some of them are quite good. And conversely, I think some of the recent NBTHK Hozon papers for fittings are no better than place-mats. The merits of good vintage would be like older 1980s and 1990s NTHK papers on Bizen swords. Often they are good as gold. A consensus would be difficult to form currently.

L. Why don't you bring it to the NYC meeting on Sunday, and ask the value there. The preponderance of fittings collectors there will give you an estimate.

Rick, Tsuba is Edo Higo, ie a flashy Edo work in the style of Higo workmanship. Flashy, but not particularly valuable.

Martin: Then it sounds like you would like to buy this man's sword? Make him an offer. Ginza Choshuya is definitely full priced. It is like the bent wood chair I am currently sitting on: A mile away in ever trendy SOHO they wanted $758 for it. I purchased it for $215 here in the Financial District. Martin.... really, make this guy an offer of $10,000 if you feel it is worth much more than $10,000. Simplify his life and make yourself a wad of cash in the long run. Otherwise, I think you're tinkling on his head and telling him that it is raining. _______________________________________________________________________ The sword is nice in relatively good polish. No visible flaws I saw in the photos. I broke out the Osafune Books: No Match There The Bizen Taikan (BIG book of Bizen): Reference mei are many, but not of best quality. No clear match. Some of the other Bizen Books picked up over the years: Didn't find any clean matches. The sword looks correct for Osafune Bizen type work, and Nagayama notes that starting in Oei period this side group's work were more uchigatana length (ie. hence why 25 inches may be correct for this guy). So the jury remains out on this one. It would be a good sword for NBTHK Hozon shinsa. I am not sure how much value or validity a shinsa outside of Japan homebase would provide, as this requires more specialized references than any shinsa team would logically travel with. I really think the owner should get it looked at by a competent sword group such as the San Fran or the New York one. Either that or just submit it to shinsa. Curran

I absolutely must agree with Grey. I re-read up on the Norimitsu line last night and while certain things about this sword ARE correct for the line, they really were second fiddle to Oei-Bizen. Work (stock & options markets) has gotten a bit hectic at the moment with the current spazZ Panic. Really.... the HFT machines of Goldman and some of the uber hedge funds just so manipulate the common trader-investor now. I'll look at the owner's signature and make a call on it this weekend, if he's still following this thread. Should be easy enough with the books I have, unless this particular gen is very undocumented. I am surprised the sword is still in polish as well as it has been. Much of the value is simply in that.

I figured it would be best to let others speak up on this one for the benefit of the owner. Though I don't collect swords anymore (never say never), Bizen and especially Oei Bizen is my primary interest so I have a very good idea in this area. Hearing from people like Brian and Grey should be about as honest as it gets. The good is that his sword is -surprisingly- in relatively clean polish. Shirasaya looks well preserved with one of those little ivory or bone mekugi rings. Habaki is rather mediocre, and we know prices on getting those replaced with well made current gold ones have climbed more dramatically than gold. Another negative is that is is on the short end, especially for Bizen around the period where it is dated. The fact that it is relatively in polish is the major caveat. I must remain suspicious about the back story, because polish is as it is and there appear (to my eyes) some small repairs that I think look relatively modern as in the last 30 to 40 years or so. I'll break out all the big old Bizen books and give it a once over this weekend. I'm sure some others can yes/no the signature faster than I can, as the owner has provided a very clear photo. As to $$$: well, some people care for Norimitsu more than I can understand. However, as a second stringer in the Bizen pantheon, the values on his swords have really fallen off since the 2008 financial crash sort of dried up the art (art sword) world in many ways. Soethebys and Christies have basically given up on Nihonto, as so much doesn't sell anymore. I think Grey's estimates are accurate, though perhaps a bit conservative. He has purchased and sold many many more swords than I have or ever will. A dealer would probably offer the owner a -20% to -50% of that amount and then mark it up. If the owner really wants to sell it.... those prices are probably fairly liquid. I highly recommend the owner have this one inspected by a reputable group (either club or shinsa). NBTHK papers add the most value, but are insanely expensive now with import/export and the yen/USD rate being toe cheese. If Yoshikawa Elder were still alive, I'd say definitely take it to him at the Tampa shinsa. However, this should be an easy one for them to Confirm or Reject. Problem is there are a lot of gimei Norimitsu out there, as (being a second stringer not as readily in the average reference book) he was a good target for forgery. Ko-Curran

The cabs were new to me. My host father and brother where quite able to thread the needle in their vehicles of choice, and even they looked on with awe at some other drivers abilities. It is hard to imagine squadrons of steel body bucket taxis flying around. Taxi drivers were so relatively docile during my time there.

This forum is quite large and I think you will be surprised how many of us are interested. There are many listener and readers. I had only a few conversations with Col. Dean Hartley before he passed, but enjoyed them immensely. Website: http://home.comcast.net/~ColHartley/index.html Often I enjoy more talking with collectors from the 1960s and 1970s.

What is with all the Stuarts in Canada? Me'thinks a Campbell like myself would be less than welcome. Of course, having an Irish last name for a first name.... the wife jokes at Campbell expense that I had an Irish ancestor that didn't run fast enough. I thought to direct you to search on Location = Canada, but that didn't produce the results I'd hoped. Depending upon location, across your broad country... there are people to direct you. However, Nihonto collectors for many reasons including security would probably rather I have them get in touch with you. Ie. they'd have my head if I throw out their information. And... since protecting information is part of my work... that would just be poor form. If you have something in particular, post here at NMB and send me a PM. I will try to get the Canadians I know to give it a look. There are at least 3 wicked smart ones I know. Curran Campbell

In originally reading this thread, I was waiting for the bomb where you said you paid some bumbling amount such as $20,000. In another thread, some guy has a Norimitsu which has been kicked around.... and he believes it is worth $20,000. I just roll my eyes and watch him take another hit off the Antiques Roadshow CrackPipe, waiting for photos when the truth is he will be lucky if his sword is worth $5000. Here you had a traditionally made blade with forging flaw (rather common, though yours was a bit large), a finger print (classic oops), and probably gimei (also rather common) and koshirae. The koshirae is more my area of knowledge these days. Frankly, the koshirae had need for one or two minor repairs.... but would cost you a min of $2000.... if not a good bit more depending upon condition, material, and various details I couldn't see clearly enough in the photos. Probably you just returned a koshirae worth $2000 to $5000. I cannot evaluate the value of the blade. Also, sword had a nice little kake for it. If sword was original fitted to the koshirae and fit properly, it sounds like the original seller did you a fair deal except for the hoakie Togo story. The owners may have been upset about us pointing out flaws, but for once I think we have a visitor here who might have made a mistake on the downside. My view is that you just returned a sword+koshirae probably worth between $3000 and $8000. There are certainly a few Canadian experts you could have asked about it. No idea on the value of the statue.

Right place to get honest advice. The moderator will probably move this to one of the other sections, since the sword really isn't for sale yet. Most likely the saya is shirasaya and is magnolia wood. An Oei period Bizen Norimitsu without papers is unlikely to be worth $10,000 or more unless the signature is easily recognizable as genuine and the sword is in excellent condition. As per the rules, use your proper first name and last initial would be considerate since this is a large forum with a few name repeats. Depending upon your location, it also might be best if we direct you to a local authority or sword group as well.

Anyone able to quickly confirm his mailing address? Please PM me privately. I have it as being Hotel Loretto in Santa FE, New Mexico and was wondering if this is still correct? Thanks in advance-

Owning both books suggested so far, I would vote for the 100 Masterpieces of the Compton Collection.

Send him a message through Benson, and maybe he'll call you back. Talented sayashi, but I am not sure he still has anything to do with Nihonto. Motorcycle racing would be an interest of his. Last time I saw him, he was turning his lower barn into a cycle workshop.

Bob, Over the years several of my contemporaries as they started and grew in their understanding wondered, "Why are Kaneiye (generally) considered masterpieces?" Many of them have gone on to see them in person and study them, and most come back having lost their Kaneiye virginity and essentially going, "I get it now" and trying to explain to me. When I see and get to study a good one in person, I'll let you know if "I get it now" and will be sure to try to explain just as others have tried to explain to me. Several people I really respect have had the "I get it now" reaction, so I'm looking forward to losing that Kaneiye virginity.

Peter, Not being an NBTHK member, I agreed to stay at the table while the two other gentleman went to your lecture. I wish I had known about the Kaneiye tsubas being there. My loss. Fred, Thank you for sharing. I'm surprised by the use of silver. I definitely have much to learn about his work.

Uhm.... almost missed the Fred G. reply. I don't think there is a Smilies for the green curiosity I have. Able to post pictures here?

Morita-san, There is a picture of the tsuba above (John?)'s drawing. Are you thinking of a Shimizu (Jingo) school dilettante student? Or something different?

It may be in your best interest to show the sword here and get some advice as to identifying it. Is that all there is of a sayagaki?

Ford, In response: "Mmmehhp...." . I like Ikkin's work overall in terms of mood, but all the examples I have seen have lacked some degree of anima / soul. Like his work. Don't L-O-V-E it. It never grabs me, nor invokes Impression from me. At $3000, maybe it would go. At near $6000, not for me. Others seem to agree, as it has been up for sale for 3 years or so? The signature is close enough and the workmanship close to that on the tsuba, so I'd probably say Jan has a fair chance as this set being legit.

Other than the silk we usually see: I recently got to see this one in the collection of a Japanese oldtimer who doesn't do internet. Many of his boxes used felt, but this large katchushi (11cm) had a fitted box done with Japanese indigo material. The Indigo certainly made the Iris sukashi pop.

Thank you for sharing that picture of the koshirae. These past few years I've been more interested in koshirae, especially original tanto koshirae. I recently enjoyed seeing this one: http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/146024478 Nice little Namban tanto tsuba. Jan..... Is the tsuba facing the correct way? Given the slender kogai or umbari slot, there should be a corresponding inlet on one side of the tsuba. Otherwise it would be impossible to draw the kogai or umbari without drawing the blade.

Anyone been to it yet and gotten a catalog?

Clive wrote, "Even for me, this is a rather long and boring diatribe for which I hope you will pardon me." *Not boring*. I've been reading your posts since I began studying, and after all these years- I didn't know how you began collecting. I collect what moves me that I can afford, mostly playing devil's advocate with myself to test my own aesthetic and whether or not it is my true opinion or that taught to me. If that taught to me more so than what I feel- then of course attempt to learn what I am missing. Maybe the "Emperor has no clothes", but also sometimes my eyes suddenly see something new and that ah-ha moment is rare and precious as I grow older. Nihonto is pretty good in this regard, as there is considerable mastery spread out over many centuries and many schools from a complex country. Easy to get seduced by it for a few decades. Ps. Jean, Santa says I've been a good person this year. He says send the Yasumitsu to 115 Sunset Drive, FL, USA. The Naoe Shizu also would be welcome. I don't see as many nice examples from that school as I once did.