Curran

As Stephen said, veteran collectors had me use NeverDull on my first starter blade. With consistent use over a period of time, it cleaned up the grey and let me see enough of a hamon to decide to have it professionally polished. Just for beater blades out of the woodwork.

I cannot see the mei particularly well and think I must be seeing the second character wrong, but I am going to hazard that the mei reads: "Goto Teijo (Kao)". Kao of course being the personal mark of the artist. Again, this is a guess partially because of the theme. It this is an exercise to learn reading mei, it is a valid one because Goto signature take some practice. If it is to read the signature to determine value, then I will get off the highroad and take the low road. I would then say this piece is collectible because it looks to be the truest example of fossilized cowpuckey to ever cross ebay; yet actually be Japanese. ***I recently went through eBay just to see what the old stomp grounds are like now. Absolute flea market....Odds of buying something real at a fair price seem to have plummeted. Yet Aoi Arts seems to be upping their prices on mediocre work, and Choshuya recently offered student work at $12,000 where near identical work by the more desirable teacher could be had with the same level of papers for $6000 on this side of the Pacific. It is partially the 50% rise of the yen over the US$ in recent years, but you would do much better to buy from sellers in the USA or Europe if you can negotiate a good price. By this, I don't mean eBay. I do mean best bets for collecting fittings are the NMB for sale section and whatever you can negotiate from veteran collectors at sword shows or through friendships. _____________________________________________________________ Ford: Shiranu ga hotoke Works for me..... Once had a bottle of Haut Brion 1989 decanted and enjoyed just right over the course of many hours. Now I can't respect most any other high end Bordeaux, yet can't afford more wine at the level of the Haut Brion 1989. I drank some of my other good bottles, sold the rest or gave a few to close friends. And quit collecting all together. Haven't had a bottle above $65 in years. I would enjoy a good higher end bottle, but not nearly as much as I would have before having had such a transcendent experience. In this regard, I do believe "to forget" is evolutionary beneficial. Budda bless me that I may forget a bit. Shiranu ga hotoke

$10,000 tsuba came off a $1000 sword from eBay a few years ago. Some other good ones have been picked up by people looking at fittings while everyone else looks at the long knives. Rare that it happens, sometimes it does. I don't believe in breaking up koshirae if relatively original and in decent condition, but sometimes the blade is dead due to kid with a grinder or hagire. OPINION: Functional real tsuba = $500 or less 800 out of 1000 Tsuba unique enough worth papering= $500 to $1000 150 out of 1000 Tsuba of Quality= $1000 to $2000 35 out of 1000 Art Tsuba= $2000 on up 15 out of 1000 This DOES NOT mean that if a dealer has smacked a $1000 price tag on it, it is inherently a Quality Tsuba. Especially on eBay. Now that I've stuck my neck out with this armchair opinion, Slings and arrows of counter opinion await me.

Who is talking about 'dead artists'? I am talking about things made past 20, 10, 5 years with Hozon papers and vague attribution.

Lorenzo, Eh..... It IS 3 piece construction. No???? _____________________________________ Your English is fine. Italian has too many VERB tenses. Italian Subjunctive is worse than Spanish Subjunctive.

*Squak* "What Ford said." (Polly the Parrot wants a cracker) I thought the sanmai peg was common knowledge, especially to someone experienced like Lorenzo. I was implying Bernard's might be sanmai, but wasn't sure. And yep.... Henry's is hardly sanmai peg construction. Those are pretty straight forward drilled holes.

about 400 years = dividing line between 'ko'-kinko and kinko. For once, I think I disagree with Ford The past 2 weeks have had me looking at a cornucopia of ko-kinko and early Higo wave tsuba: in two different avenues of study. NOW they suddenly seem to overlap here, and I would say I've seen such elementary renderings of various designs on other ko-kinko pieces. ex: http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/tuba/t0373take.html I've also seem some rather elementary wave renderings on early works of a very big artist who later became partially known for his wave design that would pass down through generations of his school. I would give my Omiya Bizen Morokage sword for that one tsuba, and have it be a permanent member of my small collection. I think the ko-kinko under discussion is just a simple nice enough tsuba that would look good on a muted uchigatana koshirae of the time with a thin "throw away" saya. _________________________________________________________________ That said, I must agree with Ford about the NBTHK fittings shinsa these days. Hozon papers don't really mean much to me any more unless they are to confirm a mei. I've also seen too many known modern pieces get 'Hozon' and also shake and bake tsuba get 'Hozon', and some attributions that are certifiably wrong by up to 200 years. What is up NBTHK... too many Hozon submissions and getting kinda sloppy about the process? I still respect their level of shinsa at the Tokubetsu Hozon level, where they seem to give things much more attention. But that is just $600 straight out and doesn't make sense for anything worth $3000 or less. Let me stress that the last decade I've been very impressed by several of the Yoshikawa led Fittings Team for their NTHK. They're sort of brutal and may pink some things they shouldn't, but their fittings papers are very respectable opinions (often on the conservative side). For fittings, very agreeable alternative to the NBTHK Hozon these days- though old school collectors may not embrace it.

Well, I thought it fairly straight forward. I would have dated it pretty much on the margin timeline between ko and not ko, but otherwise... yes, kinko. Simple, yet nice. Wav pattern of tandem waves. 3-3 at top 2-2 middle 2-2 middle 4-4 at bottom kozuka ana looks original since it doesn't cut through what would have been the 2-2 pattern at that point, but it does cut into the seppa dai indicating a slimmer saya. Therefore maybe I would have given it the benefit of the doubt as ko-kinko. Don't think it is 3 piece construction, but hard to tell from photos. Mr. Bernard's on the other hand has the small left and right pegs on the seppa dai, so is it 3 piece? Interesting motif. Ko kinko can be very simple but pleasing. Now the ko-ko-kinko like Boris and Mariusz have... that is the rare rare stuff. Learn the kantei points on those things and burn them into memory.

Ted, Thank you for the clarification. I had started to ask whether the hada was acid etched or not. It looked better than some of the production blades, but the puzzle pieces weren't quite fitting. I'd also wondered if it might be an effort by one of the independent american smiths, but thought the geometry looked more on the side of an acutal Japanese blade than one of the US well intentioned hybrids.

Thought it might be something like that, though I also thought it might be an amateur polished Showa period sword. I just don't recall seeing that sort of masame. Either way, gent has asked for attribution and valuation. Not much chance any can do that on a mystery mix like this one. It is one I would actually recommend go to ebay when time comes to sell it.

Grey, This is a weird one. I lean towards believing it is a sword, but that the whole ensemble is sort of an amateurish construct by someone who kinda knew what they were doing. The tsuba design pops up in late edo and thereafter. I've seen some cast, but others just kinda crudely done, and one or two that were done my true artisans. The jigane looks legit, but the ha and hamon is off. Notice all the overly apparent masame running below the hamon along the length of the cutting edge. Ever seen that before? The tsuka wrap shows the tell tales of an amateur (non-Japanese wrap). Very few veterans can do them right outside of Japan. Habaki is a bit crude, but not like a chinese made collar. ______________________________________________ Not sure what to make of this one? Some half educated collector's attempt to dress up a blade that he might have polished himself? I need someone like Ted Tenold to tell me what the heck is going on with that polish.

Hmm.... got more interesting. I now have 6 authority deemed 'authentic' mei, including the Choshuya one that Franco linked. Of the 6, they break down into 2 sets. One set has some of the variations seen in that of Bo's kozuka. The other set (Choshuya one and 2 from Wakayama) are more the format that Reinhard used as comparison. On fittings mei, I will stick my neck out and say if something is probably legit in the eyes of the authorities. _Reinhard_ : this is to say I feel I can accurately reflect the published opinions and those that come out of shinsa. This is NOT to say that my own opinion is some holy word. But with this kozuka, I reserve opinion. Workmanship is good and mei relatively matches one of the styles. One of the missing strokes I was redflagging is repeat in one of the subsets I would draw. This doesn't explain a missing stroke found in all 6 reference mei, or explain a slight weakness to the signature on Bo's. But if it is gimei (false signature), it is a pretty darn good one. So as Reinhard said.... if you want a formal opinion, then this is a good one for shinsa. As a professional gambler of sorts, I'd give this one a 35% chance of passing. Given the expense of shinsa, I don't know if the risk to reward makes financial sense. However, I personally might do it out of curiosity. Last time I was this uncertain on a signature, the shinsa team papered it... and it was a nice Nobuiye.

Reinhard, Thanks for doing that side by side comparison. With a surprising grinding noise, the scanner announced it had decided today was a good day to die. I couldn't scan in a reference mei. Yes, I thought the signature looked good from the slanted first photo seeing it from a laptop. I did note one stroke missing I expected to see. Hence I asked for the picture. There is some variation in the 3 examples in Wakayama, but I am seeing considerably more variation with Bo's new image. At least another stroke is missing that really should be there in any variation of the mei. Not quite ready to declare it gimei until looking at Wakayama more. Franco's post was helpful as a 4th reference point. Definitely a turn for the worse on the legit vs non-legit. A shame, as it is a pretty piece with workmanship good enough to merit attention. ____________________________________________________ The irony is that many feel Christies is a good place for dumping gimei because so many unwitting buyers trust them to vet things. They get their 26% and the legalese protects them very well.

Survey Says: KAKUJO! Second stringer of the Goto family, but looks quite capable and garners enough respect to be in Wakayama. If you can stand the North American analogy, it is the equivalent of someone who made it to the major leagues with a decent team, though relatively out of the spotlight. The mei is a bit thin for his reference examples and the one Franco linked too, but the strokes are pretty good at first glance from the angled photo you provided. There is at least one stroke in the mei that I cannot see in your photo that I would like to see. Are you able to produce a straight up photo of the kozuka mei of similar quality to the one in your first post? If it checks out, I or someone else here can post the Haynes Index entry in its entirety. Then if necessary we can debate its current relative value. Franco posted a very nice example from many years back on Choshuya, but Choshuya is like Bloomingdales where the asking price is X, actual sale price is Y, and third party resale value is Z. Still, I like the three examples of his work I have seen so far. Has that distinct late Edo Goto crispness.

Got interrupted at home here. Goto is a complex school requiring lots of understanding and still remains largely beyond me. Still, trying to help here. Essentially I am writing as I tick off what information you've provided against the resources I have. Don't build it up as the answer may be anticlimactic but, given that Mitsuyasu isn't a big name in any of the 4 choices, it is less likely to be a forged signature. Just a lessor know artisan. Benjo: 1795-1852 grandson of the 5th gen Hanzaemon Goto line. No ref. signature in Wakayama. Haynes has some hand-drawns of Benjo's various Kao. No exact match to yours. One is close. Joren: 1627-1657 second son of Joen. Died young and his work is rare. Joren#2: d.1737 possibly illegit son of Goto Renjo. Some book debate if he used the name Mitsuyasu, or is confused with Joren#1. Kakujo: d.1810 son of Zenjo, 6th master of the Rihei line. Ref. sig in Wakayama and also supposedly one in the Haynes Catalogs. Given the crisp later Edo (c.1800s) feel of the kozuka, I would bet more on Benjo or Kakujo. Sorry to drag this out, but I will get out the Wakayama 3vol. set tomorrow and check the Kakujo ref. signature for a match. Family time now.

Bo-, First take what Brian says as from very high authority. He does a good job of keeping this rather significant forum in line. If people are contacting you to sell you their treasure troves, just ignore. If the infamous Pawel has contacted you, consider yourself officially initiated into the website. I think I am one of very few people he hasn't hit up over the years. Maybe he did long long ago, or maybe I predate him. He is a persistent bug that penicillin won't cure. As for Nihonto, well Neo.... which will it be... the red or blue pill? This hobby goes incredibly deep and largely in a foreign language with a distinctly foreign mindset. Now: Goto Mitsuyasu + kao (maker's mark) First step is to take the short-cut and pull out the 3vol Haynes Index (invaluable) rather than open the Goto Tomes. I've never been good with them anyway. Haynes. Think of Goto as a very big tree. Lots of branches. I only commit the mainline to memory, as not enough grey cells remain for all the branches. Lesson 1: When Goto school, standard fittings reading of 'Mitsuyasu' often gets read another way. In this instance.... three other ways. Haynes says to see BENJO (H00172), JOREN (H02171), JOREN (H02172), and KAKUJO (H02395). Off we go to track down these 4 candidates. Benjo:

Hmmm. Nice workmanship. With fittings, largely due to the late 1800s demand from Europe.... signatures were often forged. An old truth is that for some smiths or artisans, 1 out of 10 signatures are legit. An older joke is most people believe 11 out of 10 are legit. The name isn't that big, but is Goto school which was a popular target for false signature copies. I will open the Goto books tomorrow and try to verify the signature. As a former biologist, I must say it is pretty and appeals to me though I don't collect kozuka (or as Grey more accurately names them, ko-tsuka).

John, Lorenzo, and Reinhard, I thought about whether to speak up on this one.... I needed some time to get my books out of storage after the house move and also to consult the Shozui (aka. Masayuki) I have owned. Both had NBTHK Hozon papers. I'm 97.5% sure this tsuba is gimei. I like it, but think the signature is too far from a large sample pool with some particular "oops..." in places were Shozui was incredibly consistent. One missing part of the Yuki character in particular jumps out at me and is the quick litmus test most of the time. I paused because the workmanship is very good and says to me very skilled Hamano, but reminds me of later Hamano work by some of the skilled artist in that school. The tree in particular makes me think of a particular late edo branch of the school (sorry for the pun). Go back and hit the books and look at the "Yuki" character in particular. Several things wrong with it, even as much as I try to allow for variation in Shozui's signature. If I can learn to use Photoshop a bit, maybe I can put up an illustrative dissection. I'm leaving a 2.5% margin of error here because I've seen considered genuine menuki by Shozui that have one or two distinct variations close to what is going on with this signature, but don't think it that close.

I have seen a copy of the Index. I remember it to be a large book with lists of entries, but not full information per sword. I do not know if it would indicate which Volume that particular sword is in. I do not know if there is an open digital index. Interesting question, that probably should be addressed to NBTHK directly. I have seen very few copies of this Index. If you find one, buy it. You may even consider writing Darcy and asking about his copy. He travels with work a good bit now. If you are lucky enough to catch him at home, he may be willing to try and locate which volume has the 1352 dated Motoshige in in.

ebay seller: Ryokin30 Anyone know who this person is? He had an item on ebay I was interested in, but photos of the nihonto where a bit too fuzzy. The papers were old 'green' papers and he had no return policy. Item was interesting enough to me that I thought I might try to shout out to him off ebay now that the auction is long since over without bidders. Anyone know him, feel free to PM me or to put us in contact. From his ebay listing, he is supposedly in Denver, Colorado.

Test cuts on tsuba seem to have been an early edo thing. They often traverse the nakago ana in impossible fashion and are done in a way which seems to maximize the visibility when they are remounted. Sort of a manly manly thing? I do not recall seeing it on anything later than early Edo. I have owned one of Jim Gilbert's "test-cut" tsuba. Enjoyed studying it for years.

(#3) Overhead view of WW I Biplane with both guns blazing.

The sage, student, and waterfall theme seem very popular in the 1800s, yet largely limited to the 1800s. Any conjecture as to what this theme referenced in particular? Almost always a sage and student looking at a sharply dropping waterfall. Very popular in Uchikoshi work, and seems to pop up in other avenues of Mito and Hamano work.

This has turned into a parade of ghosts past. I can mentally picture about 6 tsuba that I regret not buying in the past decade when I had the chance either due to lack of available funds or other constraints. Two of the tsuba are here and Martin just produced the Kremers(?) twin of the ko-akasaka I passed on years ago in Tampa. I have seen three of that exact rendering over the years. Given the Jedi undertone to this thread....Martin, you WILL sell me that tsuba. You WILL sell me that tsuba. Okay, so I'm not a Jedi. Ed- I like the shakudo unsigned one. Guilty pleasure are some of those late edo tanto and wak tsuba where skill level is excellent, yet left unsigned. The nanako is as tight as Yoshioka work, the shakudo looks a great color, yet the feel is Umetada or something else. I wish the maker had put on at least a little signature or kao. Bob- yes, gotta get better photos of that first one. It is a much nicer tsuba in hand, and I wouldn't have known from the photo. Very hefty boy. I also think it escapes 97.5% percent of people that it is a "named" tsuba. Some very smart people here will debate that with me, but it is how I interpret the NBTHK papers and the engraved characters relative to the design.

Mariusz, Oooh sure..... List the ko-umetada you know I like. Evil bugger. I kept looking at that one, for sale during the period where I wasn't collecting. Guys (girls anyone?)- Boris has us beat on the old iron one. I'd settle for a single nice ubu ko-katchushi in my collection some day. Passed on quite a few. Ted- very big sigh.... I passed on that one way back when, and wish I hadn't. Very much to my taste, though some disagree about the Sasano attribution. Regardless of what it is, wish I'd purchased it when I had the chance. If the owner reads this, he should contact me about it.