Bugyotsuji

Box Level One

Just had a read up on red rust. In order not to damage the black rust, use a horn or bone spatula etc., which will lift one but not the other. One other traditional method is to leave it on the roof in frosty weather. Nowadays this can be accomplished by leaving in the freezer for 10-20 minutes, after first wetting the rust spots. The water is absorbed into the active rust, freezes and in doing so lifts the red rust.

Shouldn't be answering here as I don't have my books with me. Should wait to get home as I am bound to get egg on my face. The top one looks like Shoami on the right, and signed on the left by someone with one character 包?+ 作 for 'made by'. (Ho-saku???)(Tsutsumi-saku???) The bottom definitely looks like Nobu-ie, as Rich said above.

A while back a friend sifted through his collection of tsuba and gave me some in a two-tray box. Whether they are good or bad I have no idea. Since then I have bought and added a few from various dealers and shops and now I have about twelve or fifteen of varying condition and quality. If I do manage to get around to photographing and posting them, what is the best format? A sheet of plain paper as a background like the crow and heron tsuba I saw on here earlier? Any special lighting hints? If I just put them in rows with numbers alongside, would that be a good idea to elicit comments? Or should I do each one separately? With a ruler? It would be easy to write the sum total of my knowledge about each since it is never more than a word or two, at most! The other day I posted one Wakizashi iron tsuba signed Jumyo in gold, but no-one said anything. My intuition tells me that from the thickness it is probably mid- to late-Edo and made by or attributed to the Jumyo school, but does everyone's silence mean there is something fishy about it?

There is Nobody to thank! （Western joke) You are not Nobody.　You are Somebody. Just one word to describe your powers: すごい！

What a stunning tsuba! Lovely, lovely, lovely... I wouldn't mind having that in my collection! :lol: In saying the above I do not mean to detract from any other of the superb tsuba that I see on this site.

Gunbai (sounds like Goom-bye as in Eng. good-bye) is how it is properly pronounced, but in old forms or regional pronunciation you often find the 'a' sound changed to 'e'. For example, when you say "there isn't/aren't any!", Hyou-jungo (standard pron) would be 'Nai!" (E. nigh) but many people, especially from the countryside might relax and say "Nei, na!" (E. nay) PS It looks old to me, Edo at least, but I don't trust photographs. In Japan you can find smallish ones, but the bigger ones tend to be more valuable.

The only bit that I can be comfortable reading completely is the second section, left line. The others are patchy, a bit like looking through a glass darkly, and I am looking forward to someone's explanation of the rest. A great opportunity to learn! 2nd section, left: 室町中業ノ典型的作.. Muromachi Chu (Naka?) Waza no Tenkei-teki Saku Typical work of the mid-Muromachi Period 3rd section down: 刃長壱尺九寸九分弱有之 Ha Naga(Cho?) Is-shaku Kyu Sun　Kyu Bun Jaku yushi(?) Blade length One Shaku 9 Sun 9 Bun, a little less, having in total

Hmmm.... This is a very informative thread. I am beginning to think that it might be worth digging more into past threads on the site if it is full of such valuable nuggets! Still only just scratching the surface, it seems. Very good.

"King of Sweden was in my kill zone!" :lol: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ ... ional.html

I like this Japanese proverb. "Naranu kan-nin, Suru ga kan-nin." When you can be patient no longer, Being patient then is patience. (Translation by Spider Godwin)

The local shop here provides bottles of 'Choji abura' or clove oil. (It has a distinctive smell, and it reminds me of Christmas time and pushing cloves into Madarin oranges to create a pomander.) This can probably be ordered over the internet, though I've not tried. Whether it really is the 'best' oil or not, is a different question. I had to dress a spear in it every month for a year until the steel had 'soaked up' enough of it to go back onto normal cleaning cycles. Perhaps someone can add to this. PS Even clove oil has a caveat. You have to be aware of its limitations. I was told that it can actually attract moisture? rust? if allowed to form drips on the surface and left too long. That is why it needs to be wiped off and renewed...

It's such a difficult question in a way Jean. You have split it up quite rightly into its various parts. Iam not sure if an equal sign is possible towards the end, though... A shapeless lump of gold may not be artistic, and it may not be antique (more ageless/timeless, since it doesn't sully or go dark) but it is attractive with its colour and brightness, and the twinkle appeals to something in people, so much so that they are willing to barter other objects in order to possess some of this material. A cave drawing can hold the human eye if it has been done well enough to convince the beholder of an animal's likeness. This may be artistic and with each passing generation may gain in value culturally as it becomes an antique drawing, providing a link to now-dead humans (intelligent or even genius). Perhaps like gold, a good work of art causes time to disappear as we see the artistic intellect of someone hundreds of years ago still shining and stimulating the same thing inside us. When the most valuable materials are entrusted into the hands of the greatest artists of the time, then something truly valuable can be born. Some of Salvador Dali's jewellery comes to mind. Something many people can look at and agree on. It may capture the feeling of the time too, and in that sense be fashionable too. But when we open up we are potentially vulnerable to those who would profess to know better. It might not actually be gold that we are looking at, but fool's gold, or tinsel. "All that glisters is not gold." You fool! You idiot! You thought this was valuable! Hahahahaha........... So we hedge our bets, and build defenses, as watertight as possible. But then there are the tricksters who believe that they can convince humans that Omega is in fact Alpha. And so on and so on, and I find myself rambling, and running out of time again... and perhaps someone else can pick up the baton!!! :lol:

Perhaps my posts have seemed critical. If so, apologies. I tend to be slightly aggressive when I can't understand something!!! Perhaps not aggressive, but panicky, especially in the presence of august and seemingly inaccesible, unassailable bodies or institutions. Thanks for the replies and patience in answering my questions. And yes, you have furthered my understanding! Step by step we get to Rome. One day I'll get there. But there has been a reply in the meantime! Hooray! Back to the drawing board!

Wow! This site has some amazing detective work going on!!!

As Reinhard says, except I get 越Etsu 高田Takada then ...? 平Taira? Below the mekugi ana and to the left follows: 松井　Matsui (*the first is an old kanji for Matsu) and then 鳳　Ho- and the top Kanmuri lid of something which should follow Ho- , but I can't find any common jukugo with follow-on Kanji starting with the keisan-kanmuri. * Kadokawa's 新字源"Shinjigen", Kanji no. 3504, p.493

May I offer thanks again to those who have offered their opinions here. The thread was more about proof in general, and I was commenting on my satisfaction at having a date on my matchlock, but the conversation veered towards paperwork, so while on the subject here is more hearsay offered from the local level! In the spring of this year I sent off a hirazukuri Wakizashi for NBTHK shinsa. (It already had an old and rather dog-eared certificate from an older organization certifying it as genuine, and the toroku registration paper is one of the first issued.) The splendid blade is early shinto, it has a nice silver habaki and the shirasaya is bound unusually in good silver bands. Unfortunately it came back as failed. Gimei, they said, possibly of the time the sword was made. Well, that's fine, I said, (there was always a possibility of that), but what about the wakizashi itself? "Oh, they never comment on the blade itself", was the answer, "and you won't get their reasons even if you ask." But what about the other katana that came back with 'Kanbun koro' written on the certificate? "Oh, that's different!" Well, I didn't want to rock the boat or anything, so I fell silent. But does anyone here understand this in a way that would make sense to me? Do you get opinions about the age of the blade only if it passes? Several people have advised having the Gimei professionally erased; others (including sword dealers) have said that the gimei (my gimei anyway) sometimes actually increases the value of the wakizashi. It was then explained to me that the total knowledge about Nihonto increases year by year so what may have passed in the past can fail nowadays... Is this also generally accepted truth, I wonder? I realize that with every post I betray my ignorance, but I am enjoying the replies!!! :lol:

Some interesting comments and angles there. Thanks everyone. This has been a recurring thought for the last few years and I wondered if others see the same sorts of patterns. Yes, Franco, I am guilty of stereotype and generalization, but it just struck me that even though I've lived here for 30 plus years, there are elements at work in me that are culturally different. It sounds as though you know your swords well enough to be comfortable with what you have. It's good to know that some of us can reach that level. This is probably not just a general Westerner vs Japanese debate as much as one Japanese group/philosophy vs another Japanese group or philosophy. There are shops in Kyoto that specialize in old Imari etc., but they also have to be able to make up certificates for rich Californians. Since I know little about ceramics or pottery I am afraid the paperwork would be very valuable to me. But my J collector friends would probably laugh at me again as they spend their whole life without resorting to such props.

So, is it the merchant instinct inside me that wants to have the paperwork, Remy? Or if not the merchant wishing to make a profit, then the realist? Insurance? If and when I sell the object, I want to be able to cover my outlay at least? This is actually true in my case. At least I'd like to be able to keep my options open so that if and when I do decide to sell, (or my family after me) for whatever reason, there will not be a big hole in the family's finances. Conversely, does the Japanese Samurai purist like to pretend, to show that he doesn't care about money? Do I lose credibility in his/her eyes as a lover of fine Japanese art and appear more as a buyer/seller at the precise moment when I apply for the shinsa?

When I bought my long gun Hinawa-ju Tanegashima for live use at public displays, what clinched the deal for me was the uranenki date beside the Mei on the barrel. The inscription was 肥後住尚次作　Higo ju Naotsugu Saku, (Made by Naotsugu living in Higo) (i.e. in or near Kumamoto, Kyushu) and among the other characters 弘化四年　Kouka 4 nen, (1847). My Japanese friends laughed at me for prizing the date. They said that guns rarely have dates, and that the date is a meaningless piece of information. Everything of importance can be gleaned from the gun itself, they said. The same with Nihon-to. Most of them laugh at the paperwork too. "Why do you bother to send it for shinsa? It's a waste of good money!" I do believe that this is what they truly think. In general. (It may be different up at the top end where the experts struggle.) But then I started to ask myself whether there was something deep inside the 'Western' psyche that demands every extra bit of proof? Reminds me of the idea that marriage is only a bit of paper and what is important is the quality of the relationship, not the paperwork or legal status. Is a Japanese happy and confident to own a katana without paperwork, whereas the Westerner (perhaps unable to get to a gathering of 'expert' sages) will demand some paperwork from said place before he/she feels truly happy and confident in the object?

John, what an astonishing amount of information. Very good reading. I love your collection there. As to the Mei, the Kanmuri on your various -myo all tend to widen out, I see. Mine is squished between the Nakago-ana and the Kozuka hitsu (although part of the left stroke may be missing), so it's long and thin. The only strongly similar feature is the long final stroke down. I'll see if I can upload a piccie. OK, got it. The iron is in daylight darker than in the picture; the thickness of the tsuba is not really apparent either. There is no other decoration at all; the Ura has the two hitsu outlined in fine gold as on the Omote. The dealer who sold me this tsuba told me that he thought it was mid Edo.

Actually those Miyoshis along the bottom look very interesting, but if Nitto-ho say it's Kanbun I think we can reluctantly forget them. ...*****However, to hijack my own thread for a minute, the third one from the left in your book is interesting for a very different reason. Muneyoshi is listed as belonging to the Jumyou family, 寿命族. I have owned a rather nice iron Wakizashi tsuba for over a year with the Mei of Jumyo on it. I have searched high and low for this name in Tsuba books, and now suddenly there it is! Jumyo made swords!!! Could my tsuba possibly have been made by one of them? 寿命The Mei is brushed on in gold. Could it be attributed, then? The tsuba is quite thick, though...

John, you are too respectful! Your material is for Koto. Except the first which is probably Shinshinto. At the bottom of p 631 there is a row of Koto Muneyoshis; on the left you can see the first Muneyoshi of Shinto, so I suspect he may be on the next page!!!

Thanks for that John. I'll read them now. I was trying to post a PS a while back but the site went down? I'll just stick it here as I kept a copy, luckily as it took a while to write. So while you look at this I will be back reading your post! ...PS Minamoto 源 Muneyoshi 宗吉 is not mentioned specifically in the Token Yoran 刀剣要覧, but he is listed in the Toko Soran 刀工総覧on p 609, where it says, as on the Hozon paperwork, Kanbun goro; below his name, 常陸守宗重門. This means that his master was Hitachi no Kami, Muneshige, ie that he studied at his school under him, or he was of that school? For his possible master, of two listed Muneshiges, one has strong connections with Hitachi, Settsu and Harima and is said to be Kanbun goro. His title is Settsu-ju Hitachi Daijo Muneshige, Hitachi no Kami tomo, Hongoku Harima, Osaka Sukehiro Mon, Kanbun goro. 摂津住常陸大掾宗重、常陸守とも、本国播磨、大阪助広門　There is a two-line mention of this Muneshige in the Token Yoran on p 109 where it says he also struck Nanbantetsu, some kind of foreign steel? His swords are/have been worth around 7 mill JPY according to this book.

A bit of a puzzle here. I bought a shirasaya katana some time back of length 2,2,2,2, with the name Minamoto 源　Muneyoshi. 宗吉　The torokusho is quite an early one. Everyone I showed it to said the mei must be a gimei. The characters look pretty poor to me. Then the Banto of our local shop said hang on a minute, the rust looks genuine, let's send it off for shinsa at the Nittoho. It passed with Hozon paperwork saying that it was a Kanbun katana by Minamoto Miyoshi of Settsu. (One reference work I have also says that he was Settsu no kami). This swordsmith does not seem to be listed on your website here, unless he is the Kanbun Harima smith listed. I contacted Darcy to see if the list should be updated, and he said I was well placed in Japan to solve the mystery. I am wondering what my next step is as I've searched the web and the usual Japanese sword bibles in sword shops and come up with nothing fresh. I know that an early Munetada name was Muneyoshi and in an ideal world I would hope that it might be an early example of his, denoting the beginnings of the Shinto sword era, but obviously this is aiming way too high. :lol: At the moment I am happy just owning it and glad that it has the Hozon status.