Bugyotsuji

Thanks for that. There may be some overlap here, from another time and space: http://militaria.co.za/nihontomessagebo ... ari+uchine

Then some pics of mine, which is smaller than I had remembered. Maybe Ian is correct and it is Korean!!! :lol:

The warning letter I had from a famous scholar illustrating a fake. I have taken photos from his photos.

Took some pics just now from various sources, but mostly from Sawada Taira Sensei's materials. He says they are illustrated in a Chinese Ms of 1597, but not in an Ms of 1587. He concludes they were manufactured around 1592.

There is a picture in a Chinese source manuscript 神器譜　showing a horse-rider about to fire one of these three-barrelled pole-arm jobbies which is held under his right arm. The gun itself is resting on his left hand, above the horse's head. He is holding some kind of small block/handle (?) in his right hand with a wire/string protruding from it, leaning slightly forward as if to insert this into a touch-hole. I will post the pic if it helps. I used to wonder if he had a burning match, or if a wire, some kind of brazier hanging from the horse's flank (not visible in the drawing). The horse is galloping along, the reins draped over the saddle. The Mongols were able to do anything on a horse, including having sex and giving birth.

Interesting question. It reminds me of how Bushi carried little blob coins of Mame-kin/gin hidden somewhere in the Koshirae. Using a Tsuba, you could block up the unused hitsu ana if you had a Kozuka, but no Kogai for example, and if in gold or silver this would then be an easy source of ready cash. How simple it would be to push out the filling when in need, without destroying the Tsuba's value or shape in any way.

Eric, I think you have found one of the ones I was describing earlier with the long nipples, the one I was warned about by a top gun expert in Japan as having been made in China recently. I do not really want to take this as far as you want to go as there are people out there who may not be pleased with what is being said. It was made with extra strengthening, against claims for damages in case anyone might be tempted to try and fire it, I was advised. PS Look at the Korean 'pepperbox/pepperpot' type gun at the bottom of that page you have just posted for comparison with the earlier gun you posted.

Oops, there you go! See above again!

As long as the touch-hole was on top. The depression would then act as a guide for the wire to slide easily into the hole in the heat of battle. The holes above look too fine and too abrupt. I have one of these guns myself which you can see below. It's so badly rusted that I think it has little value. One of the touchholes has rusted away and grown enormously. One of the chambers was blocked with something extremely hard, but by dint of scraping with an awl I managed to get it all out. It fizzles when lit, so I am assuming an early type of gunpowder. I still keep this in a film case, and once even took it to a university for analysis, but unable to find the right person to do this, I gave up. A project for a rainy day perhaps. Ian thinks it might be Korean, but I think my example is larger than the Korean ones he described. He might be right, but there are two or three reasons why I still lean towards a Chinese source for this one. Two thirds of the way down this page, Eric you'll see a photo of a 'genuine' one that I took in the viewing closet at Yasukuni Jinja some years ago. This has been there for well over 100 years, I believe. Below that photo you can see mine, but it looks smaller than it is in that photo. I'll take some closer ones if you like. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2414&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=three+barrelled+Chinese+gun&start=15

Very good input from Ian there. Powder would not sit in the touch-holes, so you would need a series of fuses. You could probably shoot small fireworks from it. I wonder if something like this could have been made (even experimentally) at the time of the Boxer Rebellion?

Hi Eric. An early pepperbox/pepperpot? Out of my field... That that one looks good to me, but I am usually prepared to be wrong! Can anyone else comment?

Got a photo of this?

You are absolutely right. Most of our members wear for displays either proper waraji or something that looks like waraji at first glance. In the old days, people's feet were used to the rough straw rubbing the skin, and their exposed toes hanging over the front lip, but nowadays no-one shows much enthusiasm for such in real life. I have a pair of proper straw waraji which, thanks to you, I have just spent this afternoon adapting for a quick slip-on over my Jika-tabi, and strengthening for longer wear. As you know, Waraji started to fall to pieces after a while, so people would carry a spare pair over their shoulder. Seems quite impractical. I wonder if they were designed like the coastal ships: made to fall to pieces if you wandered too far.

Eric, I have seen and handled two genuine ones. I have also seen and handled modern Chinese fakes. I have an article with b&w photos describing all the known extant three-barrelled guns. I know someone who is selling at least one of these fakes and have had correspondence with this person. He warned me, and gave me some pointers including the nipples on the touch-holes which shouldn't be there. These nipples look as though they have since been cleverly removed. The regular smoothness of the 'rusted' steel of the barrels and the thickness and consistency of the strengthening bands reminds me of the ones I have seen, and sets off alarm bells in my mind. PS I didn't want to say this much as I am sure it will be used to create the next generation of super fakes...

Unfortunately Eric, that one is a modern Chinese reproduction. (Just one person's opinion. Can't say more on a public site.) Consider two things. One, these are being made today in Beijing, and dropped into latrines to 'age'. Two, if it was real, the Chinese government would be up in arms about this sale and would be demanding to know its provenance. Does the seller give you this information? They are in truth very rare; most either already known and accounted for in museums, or still buried and subject to Chinese cultural export laws. PS Yes, Philip, those workmen Tabi with the Nike air bubble are my one luxury and the weak spot in the ensemble. They really need to be disguised inside proper straw Waraji...

Here is a pic of me firing a 20 Monme O-zutsu from Kameyama Castle in Ise, last autumn. (Uki-bune style) Notice the butt is nowhere near my shoulder. My regular long gun and Triton are on the ground beside me. http://yasuyuki.blog.ocn.ne.jp/.shared/ ... c_4538.jpg Oh, here is one showing my regular Hosokawa gun from Kumamoto Castle. 8 Monme. http://yasuyuki.blog.ocn.ne.jp/.shared/ ... c_4519.jpg

The picture above illustrates one of the ways of firing a gun firmly from the hip, and the rope or sash is used to hold the gun steady at a low height, a triangle being created by pulling up against the left foot. I had to do this in the Dojo as part of one of the Dan that I got. I don't remember anything about night firing, but that too is quite possible. Another increased-accuracy position we had to be able to do was, in the kneeling position, using our upright sheathed Katana as a monopod, and holding the Tanegashima firmly onto the edge of the tsuba, all with the fingers of the left hand, and then doing the firing procedure. Try doing that on a slippery wooden Dojo floor without sliding the Saya, dropping the gun or letting it slip off the Tsuba, all in front of the judges!

Good informative write-up, Ron. Many thanks.

Mr Jones, sir, Guns were orginally pole weapons. The pole was held straight but it was difficult to aim. Versions were designed to go over the shoulder, or under the shoulder like the Jezail. Others to go against the shoulder, and still others to be gripped and held away from anything. There is a theory that the design of Japanese armor/armour does not allow for the use of a Western type shoulder rest/butt. In Japan they kept the old ship's prow type of butt, and they called it a Ho-ate among other things, or cheek piece. I believe you could reverse the gun after firing your one shot, and split a man's skull open with the central ridge of the butt. On firing, the butt/stock slides back past the right cheek-bone and the recoil is taken by the grip and elasticity of the complete right arm. The whole body stance of the Samurai is designed for aiming and recoil, and there is even a school of thought that says placement of the butt against the shoulder is actually a 'less' accurate way of aiming and firing. It is true that into the Edo Period larger and larger guns were fired in this way, and Western observers called them hand cannons.

Glad to see that that this kind of stuff shivers other people's timbers too. Ian, I had a follow-up double-check chat with our top man about your grapevine three-barrelled matchlock, and he said that he has no reason to doubt its authenticity. He said this type was probably being made towards the end of the Edo Period.

I didn't know that about how tricky the bohiya were in flight, but it makes sense come to think of it. As to that long gun, apart from the shooter and the loading team, there were two ashigaru (well, not really ashigaru) designated to carry it yesterday, and I got them to pose for me.

Ah, yes, I heard something along those lines. And one of the towers is constructed after the fashion of a famous castle which withstood a long siege. This was considered a good omen.

What, all of them?

Apologies Brian. I'll stop here...

Simple Kanji question. What does this say?