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Top Notch Neil ! - very nice!

Interesting point Stegel - I've had modern repairs (paint) done in 1970s/80s on other WW2 militaria (non-Japanese) I own, and I can often tell pigment change (modern paint) with black light. No such difference noted. So, I wonder if a theory is (a) it was not drilled or (b) the handle change was done in period timeframe by Japanese ... since paint appears to match. I don't know. Dan

Thanks guys - It's my 2nd Suya. First one (on right in attached photo) is curious because it has a striker mark for the screw, but no screw (and the paint is all period). It's a bit odd, but I saw Matt Brice had one up for sale last Fall with the same issue - striker mark but not drilled. I didn't get the serial number from the listing but I have sent a note to Matt via Facebook to see if he still has it. I am curious if it is part of a batch or something. I wonder if Bruce or Steve have seen these previously. Dan

]In another thread I mentioned a new acquisition ... nothing rare, but quite the opposite (in condition) of the one I am restoring. It's from an unknown seller (non-dealer) that I had been chatting with in the States. He said he had swords (posted several on ebay) and shared a few pics of a Type 95. They weren't the best pics, but enough to make me think it would be a nice pick-up. I sent him money and crossed my fingers. The sword arrived last week. Pics attached.

Matt - Your EK2 looks good - yep, maker's mark often on ring (but not always) use a jeweler's look or take a pic and PM me, and I will help you out. I will share this picture as a response, and to share with our fellow members something "cool" ... it's one of my 2nd classes. One of a kind - I have never seen one nicer, and this picture doesn't do justice. It was a gift from a senior member of the MOD in Moscow to my best friend (a diplomat). it reportedly came out of a captured railroad car outside Stalingrad. Minty as mint can be . alright - back to showa challenges ... I also have a new NCO type 95 that came in the mail this week, and I was nervous because the photos were poor, but ... I need to share that under a new thread. It's not a copper, but the condition is something to see. I will post soon!

Matt - if you know the provenance like that (family recovery) I am sure your cross is good to go. In the early days, 1st and 2nd EK awards weren't heavily faked. I collected the higher end stuff (knight's cross, German Cross, etc). I look for flaws in maker's dyes, as some manufacturer's didn't survive the war (factory bombings) which helps. A big challenge is that some of the iron cross (EK) makers of WW2 stayed in business after war as jewelers ...and post-war stuff gets sold as legit WW2. I am still learning a lot about showa era sword production, in my relatively short time with this superb forum group, I have learned some gunto was produced in post-war Japan for GI souvenirs. That stuff scares me ! I haven't fell victim to purchasing one of those swords, but I have witnessed others who have. It's funny …I think if one is a true collector (nihinto, militaria, etc) , you are not in this to make money, although I know some of us buy/sell to a degree to support our own hobbies. The troubling part of collecting militaria (my opinion) is that with rising interest goes rising prices ($$$) which (1) hurt the development of young collectors out there who don't have the funds to get some cool stuff for a new collection and (2) in spawns the birth of more "samurai Monkeys" … folks who are downright dishonest and live by deception to hurt others for personal gain. OK - sorry, you hit a nerve. I promise not to get off topic again. … sorry Brian - won't happen again.

I got out of collecting Iron Crosses and some other militaria because of guys like this. It's sad that he paid 685 for this thing, but now looking for a new victim. His series of youtube videos under his "callsign" aren't flattering to his cause (in my opinion). Another person who shouldn't be allowed to use the term RARE in their own vocabulary.

Yes ... several of us reported him for the "copper prototype sword" he has currently listed on ebay. I wish they would do something about it, but I don't hold by breath or I would have passed out long ago!

I kinda agree ... I have had friends working in Russia and Ukraine on missions and these show up at Flea markets ... Far, far away from known conflict areas, but some definitely dug up (usually in worse condition from the photos of the 3 that I recall seeing).

Neat pics! - I haven't seen a lot of wak in Navy koshirae. I always enjoy looking at them.

Bruce - detailed pics you requested for post ...

Bruce - thanks for the link. I am still digesting some information in that thread! From the chart, I also didn't know how big production ramped up towards the end, but I assume those are mostly the late war variants, gearing up for home defense. Once confusing aspect is that the information on prototypes doesn't align with the "aluminum back to copper" prototype that Samurai Monkey introduced on his video in a separate thread! (ok, my poor attempt at humor). - Dan

Good catch Brian - I do some leatherwork (sheaths) as a side hobby, and I neglected the key point that I attached some leather strips on the base board to support a portion of the blade and ensure an even sanding. A critical point. Also - I mis-spoke: I used 2 inch PVC, not 3 inches. 2 inches means less vinegar required and I could rest the Tsuba on the outside. There was no rust on the Tsuba and I wanted to protect the patina - so critical to keep it out of the tube. I wish I would have done a before/after photo of vinegar .... when I dumped it out, it was "heavy" brown, like emptying out a 100 year old rusted pipe. !! I'll at some detailed photos soon on fuchi, numbers, etc. The patina/paint topic is interesting. The blade was nasty because I feel it was improperly stored for a long time, and if in moisture area, all the worse. The saya has some paint loss, but minimal rust (!!), and the fuchi, Tsuba ... dark patina. So, when did the Tsuka lose all the paint? I remember one of my High School teachers was a USMC vet of Iwo Jima (yes, I am not that young) and he brought back an NCO sword. He showed it to me a long time ago, and I remember the bright "silver" (aluminum handle). He kept it very nice. I know that, generally speaking ... aluminum is susceptible to the formation of oxide when exposed to moisture, which can lift the paint. I can't help but think that for the NCO swords captured in harsh theater conditions (jungles, etc...) the Tsuka had to be the first to suffer to environment conditions. I don't know if this issue has been touched on in previous discussions. Dan

Part 3 - RECOVERY (STONE and SANDING) After soaking – the delicate work of removing the stubborn rusts and stains began. No electric operating tools to be used. First up – I used a tri-hone sharpening stone (6”) and I took the stone to the blade …keeping the blade on a flat surface. I avoided using the stone near the distinguishing elements (serial numbers). Between each phase, I would oil, clean and/or lubricate. My favorite is frog lube CLP (the green cream) …it is a natural product, non-abrasive and really projects the blade while removing particles. For sanding, I only use wet/dry paper (and I WET it) starting at 100 grain (up/down and left/right) … and going thru 200, 400, 600, 800, 1,000, 1,500 and 3,000. Again, I focus on the flat surfaces. I really don’t want to impact the edge or “sharpen.” There are a few knicks in the blade edge and for all I know, they could be from WW2 combat. Who knows – but I retain them. To me, it’s part of the philosophical difference between the modern military sword and the nihinto - different approaches, but I hold both in high regard (not to get off-track on this thread). The sanding process has taken me over 3 hours thus far, and I have only done ONE SIDE of the blade, but I wanted to share the process thus far. There is still pitting and some stains, but I am hoping to restore to the degree where the sword can be properly represented and cared for.

Part 2 - THE RECOVERY (SOAKING) First of all, let me share that I wouldn’t think about doing this for a modern gendaito that was traditionally made. I also had no intention of “sharpening” this blade …simply removing the rust to restore to the greatest degree possible. I have no experience in polishing traditional swords, but I have re-conditioned and sharpened modern knives/blades. Even so, I know there are folks won’t agree with my work – I get it. For the saya, no action required other than to remove rust and debris from the internal sheath. At first I soaked the internal element with CLP for about two hours. I cleaned (and re-cleaned) using a small caliber rifle cleaning brush to remove all lose particles. Then I simply lubricated. For the tsuka – didn’t touch it. The big project is the blade. For the first phase, I took a 3 inch PVC pipe and sealed the base with a cap, and I soaked the blade for about 10 hours in plain household vinegar. I told the blade out about once an hour to simply wipe off rust with rag.

Part 1 – the DISCOVERY. About 3 weeks ago I went to an antique show, browsing and picking through things that I had no interest in ..search for “gold.” As I was about to leave the show, a guy had a VERY RUSTED UP Japanese katana. I mean… terrible shape. It was a struggle to get the sword in and out of the scabbard. I looked at the fuchi, which has dark patina , and it revealed a Suya logo with Tokyo first inspection and arsenal marks. I flipped over the scabbard, and out rolled rust flakes, which explained why it was so hard to get the sword back into the scabbard easily. The seller revealed that when he discovered the sword, it was so heavily rusted that he had to get his son to help pull the sword from scabbard, then they heavily oiled the blade. The rust was so bad I could barely see the blade. He gave me his price – I walked away. I walked back to the sword twice. The Tsuka was missing at least 85 – 90% of it’s paint, revealing the aluminum handle. However - the stamps seemed fine, brass tsuba and clip function nicely, a scabbard with at least 60% of original paint .. and then the serial numbers, which were a match. I was able to talk the price down to below half of the average going rate of a quality NCO sword with matching numbers. I didn’t get him down to 360.00 USD (my target), but I got him close. I took the filthy, rusty katana home. It’s a project, and I might be a fool for taking it. Next I will share my effort to clean it up. Attached is a picture of the blade at initial stages ... very black/flaky .. . and worse than the photo depicts.

Back to the original topic - The explanation by the man himself to explain the infamous sword that Steve shared the link to. Someone can be that lucky person he mentions! (ok, I am being sarcastic). Here is link:

Oops - Logan beat me to it ... but I got a note as well.

Well, I often try to be an "ebay crusader" ...even though it's 90% a waste of time. I also told the seller it's a fake. I said there are discussions in forums on the item and one can be rest assured there is no authenticity to stand by. I got this note from the seller today: "Thank you! We have canceled it! Lindsey" Hmm... perhaps this can be chalked up as a small win for the Nihinto team? At least we may have saved a buyer. dps

This is an awesome thread ...awesome story! - great stuff

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-NCO-WW2-World-War/223441977280?hash=item34062dffc0:g:LGwAAOSwbmFcg80Y A current comparison on the market - later variant and it looks like the blade has been abused significantly, but ... nice photos for stamp and serial number comparison

UGH !! - I read Brian's note and I thought he did the right thing (remove listing) and we saved a bad thing from happening to someone! .... I honestly was thinking that maybe this isn't a bad chap, he just got "duped" by someone on a bad sale and he is trying to recover his funds. He'd recover some of his investment if he would just break it down and sell it as items in proper context! However, he labeled me a "troll" and continue to re-shape facts. He reminds me of a quote I heard once in a movie, "I agree with the truth as I interpret it" ... Dan

Hey Tom - I made the mistake of getting into a running dialogue with the guy, … He disagreed with the translation feedback but provided the latest (and last) update below (read from bottom). I am done with him .… … I gave it the varsity try. It's a waste (in my opinion) to go into the other elements of the blade. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- email exchange: Your previous message Thanks! - good luck with the sale, you may want to post your translations as an addendum to your listing, but that's just my suggestion. Folks like to know the translation, even if it is best guess. Good luck, Dan 32309fl: He states the name says "GYOTEL" on the opposite side of the tang, which in rare cases this may be the owner of this Samurai sword. S Your previous message Hi S - and did those same associates translate the other side? … what did they say one the name of the sword smith? Dan 32309fl: Updated on my Samurai Sword. Several associates stated the writing on the tang is written as such. - Year March 1944 19 years of Showa era. This KANJI is Showa 19 years 3 months. - The KANJI is only a date and not the manufacturing date. Which means this sword could be a 14th Century Sword. Best Regards - S

PS - I should have edited my post better, but everything below "New message" was the response ....