Rich T

ok, well here's some ointment in ya eye LOL http://www.freewebs.com/kamakiriken/tsubaupload.htm (scroll down to item 12) Not sure how they compare, but I suspect this is what I remembered when I made my call. However, I STILL think it (both of them) might be Shoami. Rich

Hi all, well this is fun isn't it I like Ford's line in that This is something I have believed for many artists for a long time. Age, change of rank (as in, I used to work in the corner shop, now I am in the Lord's keep), mood etc must have plaid a huge role in how artists signed, just as we make our way through life with our personal signatures. I have added some examples of these mei form Wakayama's Toso Kodogu Meijei Taikan. I have grapped as many different styles of signature as I could and there are some intersting variations here as seen in this first image including cursive, straight up and down and a more free flowing example. In this second pic, I have hightlied 4 areas that I was drawn to when I started reading this thread. All significantly different from the mei presented from Ford, and the Text book examples supplied in the original replies. However, the examples from TKMT showed me that there is more to this signature than first thought. 1: The square (I think Ha section) of Hagira is very "boxy" in Ford's example but I found similar samples in TKMT 2: The bottom if the Katsu in nearly every example is small and tight, the test example is long and open. Again though, I was able to find at lease one mei similar 3: On Hira, the small right side stroke is short whilst the textbook examples appear to be longer, again, I found a similarity in the book on a couple of occasions. 4: In every case, the top of the Kao on the right side is short and upturned, where as Ford's example is long and bends down at the end. Until I found this. What I found here, and I have found many times in the past, is that any one may, with enough Shoshin examples, make a mei out of the individual characters of a group of other mei (I hope that made sense). Never hang your hat on just a few examples. Ford has, I think hinted somewhere in an earlier post, that this is Soshin, and I concur (Oh I do like to stick my neck out but it's happy on the chopping block LOL). I think this mei looks well struck and correct for a talented hand, and has enough similarities to the supplied text book examples for me to say I think it is ok. I am ready to be shot down in flames of course at any time. Cheers Rich

yeah, that's why I said in my last post, it might be a Shoami copy. Rich

I think this is, based on the last images, a middle to late Tadatoki tsuba (1700's - 1800's) and not modern at all. I have to disagree with Ford and co. Shan, send it to the NBTHK and see what they say. Prove all wrong (or right) LOL. Rich EDIT: looking back at the last lot of photo's, I am going to keep my dates, but might consider a Shoami copy of Akasaka.

Hi John, It looks like it might be, or is meant to be Korai 光夾 who was a studend of Ichijo I think. I cannot find a visual match to this though as everything I have looked at so far is cursive. It does not mean of course he never signed straight up and down. I will need to go through my Goto books later. Cheers Rich

International members can register, I am one. I remember it took me a couple of goes to get through, but I got there in the end. Rich

All good valid points here, and yes, the tsuba is to protect the hand from sliding onto the sword, not from sword strikes in my opinion, but as Colin has pointed out, there are examples (write or wrong ) of this. http://www.meishitou.com/shin_tsuba_html/13.html cheers Rich

Some interesting thoughts here. I am enjoying the read. In regards to the shape of the horse on the fuchi, I see it as being viewed from above, or over the top, thus the reason for the different shape. In art this is called foreshortening, and it is an odd thing that while is correct, can look strange at times. It's a bit hard to explain. What it is though, is difficult to achieve and requires great skill in art. It also may be a 'gestural drawing' which basically is trying to express movement with single lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_(graphical) just some food for thought. Cheers Rich

Dear all, I am wondering what the opinions of the members here are on this. In reading through Sôken Kodôgu Yôgo to Meishô no Kaisetsu (A Harvey) it states that In recent times, I have acquired a strong interest in particularly early but also all mainline Gotô works, and as a result, schools of similar style and influence. The Yoshioka group fall well into that category. Presented here is a fuchi kashira signed Yoshioka Inabanosuke 吉岡 因幡介. The surface is Shakudo mikagi ji (赤銅磨地) or a polished shakudo finish. The colour is a deep black and as fine as any Gotô work of that time. The design is carved in kibori (毛彫) and the gold treatment is Kin keshikomi zôgan (金消込象嵌). What are the opinions of members on this idea that "Many tsuba lovers do not approve, on principle, this practical application of chemistry to art, holding that it is offensive to art" I find this a curious thought since even a primary base such as Shakudô is exactly the same thing and quality shakudô is held in the highest regard. Cheers Rich

close in focus shots of the inside walls of the sukashi, and close up also of the mimi, and any surface detail (rust or otherwise) worth looking at. Cheers Rich

without detailed images, it is always a little hard to tell, but I do not think this is cast. Has anyone not heard of Maru Bori or round carving. Common in Kyo Shoami work amongst others (what others you ask ? I am trying to think ) I see no evidence of casting here though. I see some pitting damage I think. I think this is or would be classified as a Shoami tsuba with the maru mimi and mirrored design. Agree with Ford also, put a bag over it's head................ m2cw Rich

I think that group closed down the year I started collecting LOL. It's funny that the president listed here is Alan Morton, that same Alan from alansue who posted here in this thread. But as Al said, there are just loose collectors all around the country. There are strong groups in Sydney and Melbourne, we have a good little collective here in Perth, and there are plenty of folk about the other states. This is new to Sydney - http://www.sydneytokenkai.com/p7.htm Cheers Richard

Most likely low end Aizu Shoami, late period, pretty sad condition. Cheers Rich

That Tanto book is not that rare, can be bought from Japan for about $40 and the JSSUS has a translation for it for about $20 from memory. It''s an ok book though, but that is way over priced. Cheers Rich

well spotted Piers, but you have guessed me correctly. No I would not change this. I wonder if I ever made a set of koshirae, and found a kozuka to matched perfectly, and wanted to be sure that the back of the kozuka was protected from the hard iron ? well, I am not sure, it's not as though I would be using it in daily life !!!!! It may be that at the end of the day, if not there and it looked very odd, and I found someone expert enough to do the job so it looked like it all belonged (maybe not too hard) then maybe, maybe I might. Rich

Why ???? do you think it cheapens the tsuba in some way ??? Lead was a very common metal for sekigane. The Sadahiro has lead hitsuana, the Heianjo, lead nakago sekigane. I would never think of removing either. In regards to the original question, another Why ??? I say leave it all alone. It is what it is, I tend to think, if you want one in excellent condition, then buy one that way. Rich

To add to Ford's last comments, lets also not forget that a lot of these names for these tsuba which where mostly unsigned , were thought up in the mid to late 1800's by people such as Akiyama and Ogura. It is believed either these names did not exist before then, or they were called something else (who knows what that may have been). Obvious signed works were known about, as were the big schools such as Akasaka, Higo etc. but all of larger groups of unsigned work we really know very little about. It is quite possible that Tosho, Katchishi, Ko Shoami and others were all the same work/style, like wise in sukashi, Owari, Shoami and Kyo work crosses over to the point of becoming hard to distinguish between. All these tsuba blur and bleed in and out of each other. It's a tough road...... Rich

Thanks mate, I appreciate that, I am experimenting at the moment with a new flash for my camera, I need to work on the lighting a fair bit but the Ezo menuki on that page are getting closer, just a bit blown out. I am having a scan through "The Techniques of the Japanese Tsuba-Maker" but I am not having much luck there. These guys cut more tsuba in half than I can ever begin to imagine LOL. If I see an old rusty one on Yahoo Japan, I will buy it and send it to you for decapitation Cheers Rich

Interesting stuff Ford, and for those that would like a visual reference If you look at this Sojo kogai, and at the position of the puppy, find the corresponding area on the back and there is the back of the rivet, I believe hammered down and finished off flush. The profile shows the gold puppy, in kataschi-bori, almost like a menuki, resting on yop the nanako. I have this technique (the post fixing) described as Karakuri-dome (絡繰止). I admit I had not heard the term Suemon used for the decoration on the front but it makes sense. I think the majority of kodogu that used this were Kozuka and some kogai, most tended to be early Goto works I believe but I am sure there will be some Ko Kinko and Mino thrown in there as well. Cheers Rich

Hi John, yes that is a well documented Heinajo that one, but with shinchû zôgan, not kin nunome like the Bungo guard. A nice one though, I like this shape. Rich

It's interesting to read "Lives of master swordsman" which is supposed to be the closest account of Musashi's life, and how they portray him as a drunk, vagabond and womaniser for a lot of his life. I wonder if he would have been capable of producing anything that controlled LOL, but then one only has to look at his artwork to know he was a real artist. Rich

Bugger , in all seriousness, he was (Nagasone Kotetsu) the first guy I went to, because of the control in the work. I scanned about 6 books this morning early and found enough sukashi examples but it was all heavier than this, so I left it. More the fool me for not taking the chance. Nice guard Ford, the execution of the sukashi is superb. Rich

Just for those not in the know, Collin informed me he made those stands himself. They are very nice. Rich

Just as it's for fun.......... I'll go with Tosho, just because no one else is, plus the Edo Tosho made some very fine (as in delicate) sukashi tsuba, Rich

Sokendo is in Harajiku and is one of the best stores in Japan, you can visit the Meiji Jinja while your out there. Their selection of fittings I was shown (not on display) was unbelievable. I also recommend Ginza Choshuya, Japan Sword, Ginza Seikodo and Iidakoendo for not so cheap but really amazing items. I'll be there in August for 3 weeks and am hanging to get back to the shops and museums. Cheers Rich