Jussi Ekholm

Should check my own files before posting stuff For years I have just memorized that the Bungo Yukihira 1205 blade is the 2nd oldest dated sword. However it seems that there is a 1201 dated Ko-Bizen tachi, that is fairly recent Jūyō. I have the Tōken Bijutsu magazine where this item is featured but not yet the Jūyō book. Still for us mere mortals late Nanbokuchō Bizen is in my opinion the way to look into onwing an old dated sword. Also if you happen to have a connection/status/relationship with a Japanese dealer most likely you could ask them to look one for you and they would be able to find one fairly quickly through their dealer network.

For something possible for normal collectors I would recommend looking into Bizen and the "unpopular" schools/smiths. I think these are pretty much the only option to get a fairly cheap dated tachi from 1300's. For tachi I would recommend 3M yen budget and for short blades 1,5M. I think this might be the only affordable blade dated in 1300's that is currently available. Morimoto dated 1362-1368 (as actual year is unreadable). Asking price is now 900,000 yen. What is to be noted that this is the 5th dealer that has had this blade for sale in fairly short time. It first popped at 380k and I wanted it, still wanted it at 550k... Now currently at 900k it is not that appealing to me anymore. https://www.e-sword....isashi/2410-2021.htm Here are few other short swords. Just note that historical prices on sales ads would be much higher today. https://www.aoijapan...safune-ju-morishige/ https://www.kandatou...tou/wakizashi16.html https://www.aoijapan...ai-5-nen-nigatsu-hi/ Then some long ones. I know I really wanted this one. I was actually saving money for it when it was with different dealer. Then it appeared to Aoi at lower price later on. https://web.archive....-hidemotsumasamitsu/ This one was also one I considered as plausible buy when it was with another dealer. Then it vanished and Meirin had it for much higher price https://web.archive....swords2/KT222174.htm Yoshii is a school to keep an eye open for, not highly appreciated https://www.samurais....jp/sword/08119.html

Oldest one in existence is tachi by Naminohira Yukimasa dated 1159. The second oldest is tachi by Bungo Yukihira that is dated 1205.

Unfortunately there is no specification on the generation. Paper just states that there is a mei Katsuie.

I think it might have been bit of a language barrier. I posted the missing spine chunk as a reference for the post by Ali D. where a chunk of spine is missing from European sabre? or other type of sword. Showing that you can find similar in Japanese swords. I don't think the flaw on the naginata I posted is related to forging. However I translated flaw in my head just meaning a flaw/problem etc. in general. I cannot say how the damage was inflicted but I think impact damage could be a plausible explanation. The naginata is in rough overall condition but I got what I considered to be amazing deal from the dealer. People in general just don't want naginata and I would think missing chunk of blade made people avoid the item.

I feel one issue for the bulk of rusty swords is that you can buy similar level blades in polish for cheaper than professional restoration costs would be. Many of the items are also below the level that professional polishers would preferably work on. If it would be financially profitable people would be buying these items and having them restored. However there is not much demand for example lower quality mumei wakizashi be it Shintō or Kotō. Therefore you would just lose money in having these professionally polished. Of course it would be amazing that each and every sword would be salvaged but for majority of the lower end items it is just not financially feasible. Personally as I know I cannot afford restoration of items I just look for an item that is in condition that is acceptable for myself. Now I think the different view that people might have is what to do with items that do not deserve professional polisher? For that I don't have an answer as I don't really even look at items in really bad condition, if it is not something like an ōdachi or a big naginata. Would be amazing to be a treasure hunter but with tiny budget it is not happening.

Here is a chunk of a spine missing from Nanbokuchō period naginata that has been attributed to Ko-Uda. It is about 2 cm piece missing. I know for many flaw like this would be unacceptable but it doesn't really bother me. I will rather have flawed item like this that I like in my collection than a pristine item that does not interest me.

Adam posted at the same time another nice set. Looks like good quality daishō koshirae and 2 good blades by Hosokawa Masayoshi. In here you can also see the swords have almost successive numbering so they were sent to a same shinsa session by I believe by same person. I think they might have been tried as a daishō but there is a large gap between the production of the blades. However to me this is also a very good daishō set that I would be very happy happy to own.

The set at Mandarin Mansion is amazing and owning a set like that would be great. To me it is a daishō set in total regardless what the NBTHK says. The blades were sent to NBTHK together but papered separately, hence the successive numbering. So theoretically the swords are not daishō without the koshirae, so they didn't paper them to same paper. You can also see this successive numbering sometimes when dealers have sent in items as their items have rolling numbers. Looking at the pictures both blades are very high quality and the daishō koshirae seems very high quality so an amazing package.

I have the 1st book. Some day I might get the others too but I have not been in a hurry, I have narrow scope of interest and it seems NBTHK high end fits more to it than NTHK high end at least based on this one book. The book also has English index. The format itself seems very similar to NBTHK Jūyō books. The item descriptions are actually pretty short for most items.

Thank you for posting this awesome item Raymond. Would it also be possible to see a picture of nakago and possible signature? As well as curvature and motohaba and sakihaba measurements? It is splendid that this has the original koshirae still in such a pristine shape. I think I might have largest documentation of ōdachi at least outside Japan. I would love to add yours to the list. I am currently at 129 ōdachi, 86 Kotō and 43 Edo period.

To me it looks like a late Muromachi Mino piece signed 兼道 (Kanemichi).

I admit I have always liked the kantei threads a lot and made few of them over the years. So I thought it would be also fun to start a year with one. Unforutunately I don't have any items in my collection that I could post as a kantei item, I will improvise from the massive amount of books I have. This is not too serious as the pictures are far from perfect and my text description is not either. This is supposed to be fun experience and possibly make you open a book or 2, some may of course get it correctly by just quick glance. Then of course after the reveal we can have some discussion in the thread. I will post the answer some time on 11.1.2025. I don't know my schedule for that day yet, so it can be any time during the day. Type: Tachi Nagasa: 77,3 cm Sori: 2,2 cm Motohaba: 2,5 cm Sakihaba: 1,5 cm Kissaki: 2,1 cm Nakago: 18,0 cm This is a shinogi-zukuri tachi with iori-mune. It is narrow style and width of moto and saki are different. Sugata picture is shown. Jigane is tight ko-itame hada. Hamon is shallow ko-midare with some ko-chōji. There is yaki-otoshi. Bōshi is thin ko-maru. Unfortunately, my pictures of hada and hamon are not showing details and I do not have the knowledge is tiny details to give more accurate description. There is horimono as seen in the picture. Horimono are commonly seen in works of this smith. Nakago is ubu and has 3 holes and there is a long signature. Usually this smith signed katana-mei.

Thank you for posting this Luca, what a wonderful result. I think it shows your good eye in noticing this being worth of restoration and Manuel doing amazing work with this.

Get well soon Jacques! I would have gone for Tsuda Sukehiro guess initially. I admit I am not at level where I could tell Ōsaka-shintō smiths apart from worksmanship, and most likely will never be as they don't intrest me that much. However as Jacques gave the extra hint I had to refresh my memory from encyclopedia to figure out what yahazu is. Seems like this detail is often seen on the 2nd generation Kanesada work, as well as his tōran hamon is slanting. Also it seems like the three gunome elements right below yokote are often seen in his work. I am often very puzzled by Japanese descriptive terminology, as katayama-midare elements in hamon are described being featured in his work. As there are many different styled mountains in the world I am trying to understand just what this "half-mountain" element means. If it is the very steep drop compared to more gradual slope? Things like bright nioiguchi, wide nioiguchi etc. I cannot really say Ōsaka-shinto smith differences from those extremely fine details. I do confess I am better with the picture and text kantei than I would be in real life kantei. They are quite different even though of course some same basics apply. My eye is just not trained for extremely small details, and most likely never will be.

My guess is 於肥後下地 / 橋本一至 (花押) Hashimoto Isshi is quite famous maker and guys focused on fittings can most likely offer more assistance.

That is awesome collection Gary and thanks for sharing some of the items with us here at NMB.

+1 my membership is through EB as I believe it is easiest to join the local subgroup.

Without books I would not have been able to go for this guess but I would have been in the direction. Christmas hint by Jacques was also very helpful.

There have been so many good posts it is great to read this thread. NBTHK mumei attributions are bit problematic as as Glen said above they use specific groups etc. It is the same for swords and in my personal opinion they should not be taken as 100% only truth especially for lower end items. There are just thousands and thousands of unremarkable mumei items swords/fittings etc. and they will need to give some attribution for the item. It is just common Japanese style that they will make quite specific mumei attributions be it for swords or fittings. Identifying a mumei sword as a work of specific smith is just how Japanese appreciation seems to be in some cases. And for more unremarkable items you will get broad group attributions. Best works go to top tier smiths and lower works to lower tier. I am focused on old swords so I am not that up to date on tsuba schools. However you fitting guys know much better. My question would be how many plausible categories (in current traditional tsuba appreciation) there even are for mumei Late Muromachi - Early Edo tsuba, 20-50-100+ possible categories? Then there are possibly hundreds of thousands of mumei tsuba that are fitting to that time frame, and need to be classified in some way. I think Glens example with 12 tsuba is a perfect example of that. For me personally having a mumei attribution to X doesn't really give too much exciting information of the tsuba in question. Having the tsuba theme explained is much more interesting to me than majority of the "bulk" attributions.

For me books is just fitting as I can't afford swords. Just purchased bunch at Yahoo JP, and waiting for few more auctions, definately an addiction & obsession of mine.

Thank you Manuel, I was looking mostly at Nihontō Meikan but seems like Markus has done more research . In Nihontō Meikan Mino Motoshige is seen as connected to Bizen and/or Hōki Motoshige and Kyūshū Motoshige has no known period but I believe he is listed as being connected to Mino Motoshige. I think the tricky thing is that there might not be blades by these smiths remaining, as pretty much all early Motoshige blades are (at least judged to be Bizen). So far I have been able to find 64 signed blades by various Bizen Motoshige (169 with mumei attributions) There is one long Kuni Fumei Tokubetsu Hozon tachi with Motoshige signature And there is this Senju'in attributed one. I haven't been able to find any blades by any of the Sōshū Motoshige smiths, Hōki Motoshige smiths, or the Mino or Kyūshū smith. Rarity like this is what makes trying to research stuff fun for me. While some high ranked smiths might be much more desirable, it is a different game when there are 50+ signed items by the smith.

I think Kirill is giving good info on Wake attribution. While I think it is great that NBTHK uses some lesser known attributions, it can be tricky. From Wake basically only Shigenori and Shigesuke are known, and even for them very few signed blades remain. I personally like the bit "loud" hada. I like things I can see easily with my eyes. I feel the koshirae is also quite attractive. One thing I often try to consider is how the sword has been in the original form. If the lower hole would be original it would have been c. 70 cm tachi, however if it is ō-suriage as Aoi and most likely NBTHK think, then it would have been 80+cm tachi. As I really like big old tachi this is something I try to imagine but 80+cm tachi are quite rare to find surviving to this day.

To me swords like this are almost the pinnacle of sword collecting as they are super interesting. I would much rather own this than some average suriage Jūyō katana. This Motoshige smith is not featured in any of the smith indexes. I believe NBTHK sees Yamato influence in this, thus they put it towards Senjuin (as they generally do to unknown Yamato smiths). I see this as an amazing sword but unfortunately far above my collecting level.

I would think it could be an unknown Yasumitsu (安光) smith from the late 1500's. This particular Yasumitsu signature is quite rare character combination, and I personally don't see any of the known Yasumitsu smiths in smith indexes as a plausible option for this sword.