Jussi Ekholm

Darcy, maybe you should put up a warning sign that most likely will happen. Really looking forward for seeing more of them.

Excellent project, and I will definately want a copy of that book.

I have a secret ace , I got an used one from Grey, and previous owner had crossreferenced every entry with Hawley code in pencil. That makes it a lot easier for me. There have been couple misplaced entries, but they have usually been most likely just accidents.

Well I have to say I'm absolute novice when it comes to kantei. I think I can spot some more obvious characteristics (at least usually) but then when it gets into fine details it gets too hard for me. My main goal is usually to get the period correct, and if I can recognize some feats which I could connect to something. I can't read Japanese, but of course I've learned to identify some letters and hopefully will continue to do so more and more, and hopefully some day I'll be able to learn to read Japanese fluently. I quite recently picked up Kantei Dokuhon with translation, which I try to use sometimes instead of Connoisseurs. I think this is great practice for me first trying to read the original one a bit and then check from the translation for correct reading (of course I practice on "easy" stuff). Yamanaka Newsletters are very good. As I personally have most intrest in Koto, I mostly use the first book which covers Koto, and 2nd book has 2 excellent parts. 100 page part History of Japanese Sword and 100 page part Identification of Nihonto through shape, I've found both of these to be amazing reads and I keep going to them again and again. I must say most of my "kantei" is not excatly kantei, but more information seeking in general nature. As in many occasions the items I look for are already been identified with persons far more advanced than myself. Then I try to search information from to books to understand the identification. Here of course books like Nihonto Koza are excellent. For example, after the Naminohira school part there is an excellent read in Koto Book 2 page 386, Kantei method for Kyushu mono overall. This is most excellent reading, and plenty of gems like this can be found in Nihonto Koza. As for Japanese ones, for a specific smith I try check the value from Toko Taikan and Token Kakaku Jiten, and possibly try to read the entries. I've also tried to sometimes use Nihonto No Kenkyu To Kantei, but unfortunately I think it's too advanced for me and I've used it very rarely. The previous owner made a small sub-index in English which has been helpful. The small glimpses of information I've gotten from it have been helpful. Then something which I've found very helpful, Nihonto Daizen 2. From pages 40 to 66 there is most excellent Kantei guide with high quality color pictures identifying some stereotypical traits. Unfortunately the text is in all Japanese (and I can't read it as whole), but small identification pointers are fairly easy to read with help of other books. Great information with great pictures about the 5 traditions. Of course this same information can be found in all other books of the same subject, I just really like the high quality pics so I can actually see the details that I try to understand.

I have a big list of schools which I like, but I don't think I have any single favorite yet. Various Ichimonji brances are among my favorites. Kongobyoe and Naminohira might be bit less known schools which I like. And Soshu & Soshu influenced schools I also enjoy greatly. Now I'll have to stop here before I list more and more in...

This has been excellent thread to read, even though I'm not yet a tsuba enthusiast threads like this are fantastic to read. One thing that does puzzle me a bit in Sergei's tsuba is the fact that one part of it has 5 spokes while 7 others have 4 spokes. Of course we most likely wont ever find out the reason, it just stuck me as bit unusual detail. Surely there has been originally a reason for that. Just throwing these pics out here and I'll get back and keep enjoying the discussion as I don't have any information to add to this intresting debate. 32 spokes between 4 attachment points, well 36 if you count the 4 little ones or possible attachment points in their place. However the Jesuit symbol has 7 spokes between the cross sections, these tsuba in this thread have 8 spokes (9 if you count the middle ones too). And to lighten the mood a bit

The Zweihänder comparison is a good one, that's how I feel too. (Both are only replicas but based on authentic examples, I believe the measurements for Hanwei Odachi are taken from Rin Tomomitsu) Overall lengths of those 2 are Zweihänder=160,7cm Odachi=171,5cm. Zweihänder weighs 2675 grams and Odachi weighs 2575 grams. Both of these are massive swords. To put some scale to Taroutachi, just the blade length of it is 50cm's more to the overall length of this odachi. So it will be ridiculously long. Yamanaka states in his Newsletters in regards Nambokucho and Odachi There are lots of legends around swords in Japan, as well as rest of the world. This is a part of Anegawa battle screen, and Makara Naotaka wields his great sword Tarou. Some sources state that Makara Naotaka has been a man of massive stature. Where an average man of this period was about 160cm he has been possibly said to be 195cm in height (however I do not know how valid this estimate of his height is). However he was a Commander, so his size may have been exaggerated. And I am not sure how much actual battling commanders did during that time. One old guide line for Odachi selection is in a book published during Tenbun - Eiroku. The total length was usually the measurement of the wearer under the ear. Odachi are being described as being used particulary by the rear guard Zuigo. Usual term nowdays is Shingari. Was this rear guard an elite troop that guarded commanders? One picture from Gioku Seki Zashi is listed as attitudes of ashigaru and wakato at the battle of Ichinotani. In this picture Wakato (servant) is described riding horseback on his masters secondary horse carrying seoi-dachi on his back. Also 元弘 Genko 1331 and 建武 Kemmu 1334 are listed being as a kind of starting point after which odachi became more popular. There are plenty of descriptions of old famous warriors and their sword lengths listed. Just for giggles the Odachi replica in my pic is bit below my ear. So a samurai of c. 185 cm who used odachi could by that Muromachi period guideline have used a sword c. 170 cm in total length.

Well I got bit sidetracked on another forum when there was talk about very large twohanded swords of variours cultures with very long blades. I thought I'll post this here, as Odachi are among my favorite types (smaller ones, not the monster swords I'll list here). Odachi 大太刀 (large tachi) is term commonly used when blade is over 90 cm in length. There are few Odachi in Japan that have blade near or over 2 meters. (I'm at my parents for the holidays, and I might have bit more information in my books but can't access them now) Most of these swords are famous artifacts. 祢々切丸 - Nenekirimaru (Nambokucho 1332-1394) Total length: 324 cm Blade length: I've seen mention c. 215 cm 太郎丸 - Taroumaru (Kamakura period 1184 - 1332) Total length: 262 cm Blade length: 180 cm Weight: 7,2 kg 志田の大太刀 - Shida no odachi (dated 1415) Blade length: 220 cm 太郎太刀 - Taroutachi (It is described being sword Makara Naotaka used in 1570 at battle of Anegawa) Blade length: 220 cm Weight: 4,5 kg Odachi made by 三家正吉 Sanie Masayoshi (dated 1843) Blade length: 224 cm 備州長船法光 - Bishu Osafune Norimitsu (dated 1447) Total length: 377 cm Blade length: 227 cm Weight: 14,5 kg Feel free to share any information you have on odachi. The more "regular" sized odachi are more to my own taste than these monsters. Just thought I'd share this small info on these couple swords (not sure if all my info is correct, so feel free to put corrections).

Unfortunately I have a train to catch, so I can't write a long post. There is a great article on tameshigiri on several stacked bodies in Token Bijutsu 674. And Sakaue Kazuhiro also gave bit of his insight to that article.

This is CSI-level stuff right here in this thread. Now after seeing the full length shot, I really like the sugata. I just rewatched the episode. As Rick told he paid 18k for sand buggy (I remember that was featured in one episode a long time ago) initially and 4k for rebuilding transmission = 22k (that is assuming he didn't add any own profit to his estimates). So as the deal was sword + 8k, the sword was valued at 14k. Then of course Rick will have to add his own profit margin to the sword when he lists it for sale in his shop. So it will be most likely with much above the 14k price tag now.

Finally found a stream of it that's available to Finland. I really liked the sugata. Unfortunately the resolution of the stream was too bad to see the details. I believe NTHK paper says 長享 Chokyo (1487-1489).

As there isn't a single elephant currently in Finland, I could lend my reindeer antler knife to you. You can PM me the city where you moved to, and other stuff as well. There are few female collectors actually living quite close to us. I really like that koshirae, looks to be nice overall package, and I do like red saya a lot. Can't comment anything about possible schools. The rim on the tsuba looks very beefy.

Hard to pick only 1 from each category, but I'll go with these. Unrealistic: Realistic: I'll go bit against the flow here by not choosing specific smith or school. Instead I choose Koto Odachi with nagasa c. 100-120 cm, no requirement for school or smith, just the age and the shape & physical size. For long I thought this dream was totally unrealistic, but after seeing one go for a price that surprised me, it's realistic if everything lines up right. Of course not now, but in 10+ years who knows...

I think it's a great idea, and the craftsmanship on those pieces is stunning. I am part of the new generation, I watched a lot of anime when I was younger. And now after having a break of it for some years I've started watching again, and some series are just amazing, wonderful story and very well made as a whole. Even though I wouldn't consider myself as an anime fan, I understand how it has such a strong following among many young adults & kids in western world. When looking at these swords, try not to think them as nihonto, but as fantasy swords. I really like that Japanese have made this fantasy exhibition, as in western world fantasy swords have been very common. I bet many of you remember the Atlantean sword in Conan, and other famous fantasy swords seen in movies. And I remember doing the famous "Conan twirling" with my Euro swords as a kid. Seeing movies, anime and such will have huge influence on kids, (and even older folk). Personally I'm not that much into fantasy swords neither Western or Japanese, I've always preferred more traditional swords. But fantasy swords are popular, especially among the younger collectors. Is this improving nihonto as art, probably not, but it's evolving it into new direction.

This following post is just novice speculation. How about Iemori of Kongobyoe school. He signed also Minamoto Iemori 源家盛, worked Bun'an (1444-1449). The work style of this school has following characteristics. Jitetsu is nagare in itame hada, mokume mixed in, it is more or less hadatachi. As for the hamon, hoso-suguba is the most common. And work style of Iemori is described being mokume mixed with masame, mostly suguha, also notare or ko-gunome. I think that fits quite well what is in Andys description, and what I can see from the pics. But I must say I somehow think Soshu by the horimono, somehow that style always makes me think Soshu & related styles.

There were 4 generations of Settsu Tadayuki what I can read from my books. 1st gen. is Chusaku (Fujishiro), Ryôwazamono, and 3 Million Yen (Toko Taikan) 70 points (Hawley). 2nd gen. is Chusaku and Wazamono, 2,5 Million Yen, 15 points. 3rd is wazamono, 2 Million Yen, 15 points. 4th 2,5 Million Yen, 15 points. Also in Token Kakaku Jiten there are two Tadayuki listed. I think they are both listed at 2 Million Yen, unfortunately I can't read Japanese well enough for whole description but one is Kanbun era (1st) and another Tenwa (2nd). Only brief mentions of Tadayuki in Nihonto Koza and Yamanaka. That is about all the info in my books that I can give about this lineage of smiths.

It takes certain qualities for younger generation to get into nihonto collecting. I like I guess most of my peers started by collecting Chinese made replicas. Some years into that I already knew I will be focusing on nihonto. But for young collectors the Chinese made replicas are very appealing form of collecting. Heck, I still have good bunch of various Chinese made Japanese swords, and for me it's the "fun part" of collecting. For me nihonto are for collecting purposes only, and Chinese made replica stuff is for cutting & fun. When you look at the Japanese style sword market in general most of the stuff sold is under 300$. Of course they are not nihonto, but most of the young or even older folk don't want a nihonto. They just want swords they can cut with. For most the origin of the sword does not matter, but the price does, what kind of nihonto will you get for sub-300$'s? Another is the fact that many people have no clue about real Japanese swords. What I mean by this is that many younger swordfans think them as super expensive godly swords that can do everything. I've heard multiple times how you can cut through steel poles with real Japanese katana, and they are so sharp you can't touch them. And many times I've heard how they cost 20 000€, 50 000€ or so. I know the absurd thoughts about the performance of the katana stems from anime, as I've watched my share of it. But what really puzzles me is where they get the price to their head? As this has been common thought among many young sword fans in Finland, and even sometimes I see it in the Internet. Of course the easy explanation is that not the tiniest amoung of research has been done. This is just one opinion. Even though Japanese swords are my favorite swords, there are amazing swords found all over the world. Viking swords and iron age swords might be 2nd in my list. Indo-Persian stuff might come 3rd and so on. I don't think there are truly any ultimates. I believe you in the USA have quite good organizations regarding Japanese swords. And what is important it's easy to find info on them. On forums when someone asks, I have been able to point out sometimes specific sword clubs near someones area and you have JSSUS in general. And you have multiple big shows around the country. Information is easily accessable for those who seek it, it's just the fact that swords are not that popular, and people don't search information. It might be pretty hard to get a lot of new collectors in as this is a hobby which you have to be quite intrested from the start. There have been discussions about popularity of traditional martial arts in Finnish martial arts board. The popularity of UFC and another MMA has drawn people over traditional arts. I think that those martial artists that practice traditional martial arts have bigger possibility to get into sword collecting. I feel that those who practice Japanese sword arts might eventually become intrested in the Japanese sword in collecting mindset too. Where as those that practice MMA, kickboxing & such martial arts will never get such connection with the weapon itself due to their art. As Curran mentioned international laws, I might add that here in Finland if you can prove the item coming outside EU (in this case sword) is antique or art you pay 10% tax, if not you pay 24% tax. Finnish customs has sometimes given me headache as they are quite inconsistent with their decisions. My post ain't really relevant for nihonto market, but more in general for collecting.

I browse the site quite much by my phone. I have some version of Android, don't even know which one. I love to read the normal version of site by phone when I don't have access to computer. I get very frustrated by pages that are made for mobile devices (sometimes they throw you into a loop when you click use the full version of site -> it detects you are using mobile device -> so it brings you back to mobile site...), they make me want to throw my phone to wall. :D

I found a way, and wow, awesome stuff. Big thanks for Pavel for uploading all those pics up.

Big thanks for sharing this Henk-Jan, I've been looking Pavel's work for several years. I'm very happy that he got an opportunity like this. Is there a way for us who don't have Facebook to see those pictures? (Or is it just me who can't get them to work?)

I know that there seems to be some debate on it. But NBTHK has described wakizashi with similar tips as shobu-zukuri. I'm thinking I see high shinogi & thinner kasane, and I'm not sure if I see kaeri or if it's just something else. Of course I might see completely wrong.

I might be totally wrong with this but sometimes as a novice you have to ask stupid questions in order to learn. Could this be shobu-zukuri wakizashi?

Very nice to get some discussion about this. Here you can see the crossections as whole on Ted's site: http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_misc10.htm I sent him an email some months ago asking if he'd still have a lecture handouts leftover from the event. There is a 4 page article about these cross sections on Bushido magazine Vol 2 No 3. (The main reason why I bought the magazines ). I believe Jacques D. has provided few pics of the article some time ago, and that peaked my intrest on it. Ted's cross section number 17-18 is to my understaning Bizen Kiyomitsu which has complex variation of makuri lamination, it's discussed in Bushido magazine article along with other examples. Unfortunately I do not have information about the origins of the chart I posted earlier. I have seen it on couple Japanese blogs if I remember correctly. If I understood correctly professor Eiji Yamasue from Kyoto University was speaking about the properties and uses for tatara steel, so I believe he was the one who had chosen this chart for his lecture. But many of the more basic types are found on many books on Japanese swords. For Mino blades in particular Malcolm E Cox - Mino-to discusses the construction of Mino swords briefly. There is a lot of information about various methods in The Sword and The Same, including one method which ends with the phrase "This method was favored by Masamune and his followers of the Soshu school". Also continued "Needless to say such process was extremely slow and costly. Moreover it was necessary to exercise the greatest care in keeping the surfaces free from grease, dirt, slag or other foreign materials which might prevent the integral welding of the layers and produce flaws in the finished blade." But if I understand the book correctly, Masamune and Soshu followers made mukugitae blades from steel only without added iron. But the steel plates they welded together had different carbon percentages. Piece folded in 2 is first done up to fifteen times, then 4 similarly folded pieces are welded together and the whole piece is further folded up to 5 times. So in book it's calculated that there would be 4,194,304 layers. I do not have read descriptions about construction used by Masamune anywhere else. I don't know if the method described in the book is totally made up or real, but there is a star * with description the above has been adapted from Masahide's book. On the Origins of Nihonto by Carlo Tacchini has excellent part about construction. Also Ohmura's site has so much information: http://ohmura-study.net/243.html Also just found this intresting picture when searching with Google.

Not sure if this intrests anyone, but I thought I'd post this here. There was a collaboration of Couple universties in Finland, Finnish knifemakers guild and Universities of Kyoto & Tokyo Arts labeled as International seminar on Art and Technology of Pre-modern Ironmaking and Blacksmithing in Japan and Finland. Unfortunately I was not able to attend this event, as it would most likely have been awesome. Hearing the lectures and seeing the tatara. However I was able to find lecture dias from the Universitys website. And I'll share one of them here as it will be great for discussing the various construction methods. Feels funny as I think myself being quite far from being an engineer, yet I do have great intrest in stuff like this. Here are my translations of them, please make corrections if I made mistakes. Upper row 1. Hachimai awase 2. Sanmai awase 3. Wariha Tetsu 4. Muku Middle row 5. Hizen Tadayoshi 6. Bizen Sukenaga 7. Nobukuni 8. Shihozume awase 9. Kyumai awase 10. Gomai awase 11. Makuri Lower row 12. Kongobyoe Moritaka 13. Bizen Kagemitsu 14. Bizen Harumitsu 15. Seki Kanemitsu 16. Hon sanmai 17. Shichimai awase 18. Kobuse Unfortunately I missed the lecture, would have been great to hear more about this dia. I've seen the construction for Nobukuni earlier and it puzzled me a bit, but Kongobyoe construction was something new for me, and very intresting, as I have developed a small liking for that school. Also Kagemitsu and Harumitsu cross-sections are intresting.

There was Kanefusa Odachi sold by Aoi-Art recently, unfortunately it's not on their site anymore but you can PM me if you'd like more info on it. Late Muromachi sword, 110,5 cm nagasa, ubu nakago. Spectacular sword, as I'm a fan of big swords it instantly won me over. If I remember correctly it sold for c. 1,7M Yen. Aoi-Art sold last year Odachi that was made 2009 by Akamatsu Taro Kanetsugu (Kanesada Kimura). 102,7 cm nagasa, in koshirae, had very intresting koshirae with kurikata and sayamaki. Price was 800K Yen. If someone has information about a book specifically focused on Odachi/nodachi, I'd love to know too. There are good bits of information scattered throughout many books.