Jussi Ekholm

Interesting piece, would be nice to see more of it. Can't really say anything based on one pic and not having any measurements. You might want to check out late cusped falchions, messers, storta etc. Those specialized in European swords of c. 1500 to 1600 could give you more accurate info. I can see how it's easy to think it has European influence but it seems very short to be a European sword. I have couple hangers from c.1600 to 1650 in my European sword books that bear some resemblance and length is similar but they are "hunting swords". I can hit up a pic of them tomorrow. So if it's European style sword made to Europe I'd think of a small hunting sword that was carried by nobility on hunting games. Made for an European nobility in Japan when they heard about good Japanese swords? I don't know Chinese swords well enough but I think there are some Chinese swords that have slight resemblance to this (well as well as to European falchions, messers etc.). Here is an image that shows some various dao tip types. There are dozens and dozens of variations and it would need someone in the know of Chinese weapons to say which type might have this cusped tip. I only know the names of the couple most typical sword types and even within them there is a huge variation on sword specs.

I think it reads 於厳島盛俊造之 - O Itsukushima Moritoshi kore o tsukuru. Moritoshi made this in Itsukushima. The beginning had me puzzled but I think it's correct.

I'm happy that I solved this puzzle, I might get a mention in Hizen smith-codex... The image you linked in the op reads 真鍛 shin no kitae. The hints that made me think something fishy is around is you connecting this to Shinkai. When you look at the mei in your op it is a tachi mei and you see ana. As shin no kitae is usually at the bottom of the signature you could guess the hole is second hole on the nakago. So I started checking my mei collection, looking for few certain things, as I knew you were playing a game with us. The image in your op is from Tadahiro sword featured in Token Bijutsu 639 and the sword is also on Markus' Kantei-zenshu (where I believe you got it from). Attached is the sword in TB 639. I do think that it's kinda rude thing to do as you knew the answer to begin with and wanted to play a game with us... But at the same time I had few funny moments solving this so in the end.

Would be nice to hear your thoughts in full Kunitaro. European member base of NBTHK is quite small. I don't know our total numbers but I have a guesstimate of our group size, I'll let members more in the know comment on that if they want. We are good bunch. I read the Token Bijutsu, well read is too strong word as my Japanese is very limited. You could say I browse through it and try to translate the item descriptions that are interesting to me. It takes a good while to arrive to Finland and I'm quite sure the February number arrived to me after the last NBTHK meeting I attended. Usually I don't even read (browse) the keijiban portion because it will be a huge task with my Japanese level. I don't need to stress out towards papers as I know I'll own only few swords probably for the rest of my life. And those items will be swords that I like regardless of their level and/or papers. I understand it will be a much bigger deal to someone who has multiple swords, and for those buying & selling a lot. At the level on which I am collecting it's pretty stress free. For me NBTHK is mainly about the other NBTHK members in Europe. I know non-members might treat it as a "papering organization" or something similar. Getting together with our other members is my reason for being a NBTHK member. There are so many Hozon & Tokubetsu Hozon swords, it would be a shock to me if there weren't any faked papers. How many are currently circulating I don't have a slightest idea and it would be nice to know how widespread this problem is. I have been under the assumption it's very minor problem but I could be wrong.

Can't add much useful into discussion other than link to Usagiya where they have listed prices for couple various qualities of tamahagane from NBTHK (there are many more grades I believe). Grade 1A (the best) = 8,100 Yen/kg Cast Iron? = 3,240 Yen/kg Lowest grade = 1,620 Yen/kg http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/others1.html I used my google fu as I don't have access to my books currently but on The Craft of the Japanese sword Yoshindo Yoshihara states that first phase of forging consumes about half of original tamahagane. So after the 1st stage you'll get a bar which is about 2,25 to 3,5 pounds. It is cut in three pieces. Short sword can be made from 2 pieces long sword needs 4 (1 additional piece from other bar). It is said that these 4 pieces when welded together weigh around 3,25 to 5,5 pounds (at this point half of the original starting material is already lost). This is for kawagane, the jacket steel. So you could be starting about c.6,5 to 11 pounds of tamahagane which is about 3 to 5 kgs. Yoshindo also uses 2 pound (about 900g-1kg) chunk of tamahagane with average carbon content of 0,5% as a starting phase for shingane.

Well that is too complicated for me to answer. I know they know a lot more than I do so I take their opinion like that. Unfortunately I don't know them at personal level and I don't know the connections between them. I have been under the belief that Satō Hitoshi is running Katana no Kura and Minoru Mitsui is also in the company. Here is their website: http://jasmk.jp, and you can find their appraising team here: http://jasmk.jp/info/index.html

I believe their acronym is JASMK for us westerners.

清次 Kiyotsugu, real name Sakai Magoichi 坂井孫一 born 1897 died 1971. Worked at Seki during wartime http://www.jp-sword.com/files/seki/gendaito.html Unfortunately that is all the info I have on him.

I think the signature might read 関小川兼国 - Seki Ogawa Kanekuni

I PM'ed John a good sized chunk of various published Tadahiro mei by different generations, most of them by NBTHK. There are a lot to study for and should help out a bit. For Karl Peter, do you know for example how 2nd Tadahiro changed his signature over the years? NBTHK explains this in quite easy to understand manner. That is probably the reason why I among many others will rather trust NBTHK than this mysterious Hizen smith code that must be kept as a secret. I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just trying to say that you need to explain your smith code in way that people besides yourself also understand what you are talking about.

I think modern classification is sometimes too strict when it comes to "borderline" things, as I don't believe it would have been a big deal back in the day if your sword is 59 cm or 61 cm. I picked 10 swords from Kantei-Zenshu that were listed being used in katate-uchi style by NBTHK. Here are the blade lengths, and 3 of them are wakizashi but the few cms wouldn't have mattered back then. 66,8, 66,3, 64,8, 64,3, 62,3, 61,8, 60,6, 58,3, 56,5, 53,3. Here are portions of the description of swords that are 56,5 cm and 53,3 cm. Now that was the actual portion that I had data to backup, next one is recreational own opinion that I don't have things to back up as I am not a koryu practicioner nor any martial artist. 60 - 65 cm is a very short sword for two handed use. I have a Chinese replica of katate-uchi which I custom ordered to my specs, and it has 61 cm blade and 20 cm tsuka. I've used it for cutting (+ trying to do some iaido kata from memory) and in my opinion it is best suited for one handed use.

I think you'd enjoy Uchigatana-goshirae book by Tokyo National Museum as it has lots of detailed info about this type of thing happening. The book also features how the tachi koshirae declined in use during Muromachi period and became only formal. Like Darcy said before there are many famous swords in Uchigatana-goshirae book that later on their life got mounted in katana koshirae. Then I'll also jump in the terminology train. :D I have quote from Uchigatana-goshirae book and NBTHK Issue 663-665 as the sword was kantei blade. 1. 拵は柄の寸法が短く片手打用となり。 - This is from uchigatana-goshirae book and I would understand it (with the help of translation by Markus :D) meaning short hilted koshirae for one handed use. I searched the book through pretty fast and they were usually described in similar fashion. 2. 室町後期の永正︙大永頃によく見られる片手打ちの打刀姿です。- NBTHK kantei (Markus also has translated this in his Kantei-Zenshu), I think blocky translation would be Late Muromachi period, Eisho to Daiei, typical uchigatana sugata of katate-uchi. Markus has more fluid translation in his book where he just describes the sword as katate-uchi which is easier to understand. Also you must take note that NBTHK describes also another form during late Muromachi, to diffrentiate from katate-uchi. Sword that was meant to be used two handed, morote-uchi, which I believe are usually more towards Eiroku - Tensho, as the sword size was evolving again. Both of these swords are uchigatana but special terminology will help to understand what we are talking about without longer explanations.

I'll say the same advice as I said last time, Scandinavian NBTHK will help you a lot. We had a great meeting today and I was hoping that I might see you and this sword. Our experienced members can give very good advice when they see the sword in hand.

How old are you looking for? It will be pretty tough to find original koshirae that is early Edo or before that.Here are few that might be something you are looking for from Uchigatana Koshirae book. 48 - Sukesada blade dated 1524 but the koshirae was made between 1598 and 1604. This was a sword Kuroda Yoshitaka carried a lot before that but the koshirae was made during that time. Sword is a kazuchi-mono by Sukesada and it has hikae meguki-ana. Koshirae has two holes so it was mounted through both. There is also a later copy of this koshirae featured the later copy koshirae just has a single hole as mounted is the famous sword Heshigiri-Hasebe. Both swords were own by Kuroda Yoshitaka. Nagasa 61,2 cm, nakago 15,5 cm, tsuka 21,9 cm, overall length of koshirae 91,6 cm 63 - Kiyomitsu blade dated 1514 but the koshirae was made around 1661 and 1704. This sword also has hikae mekugi-ana, you can find plenty of swords around the 1500 that have this backup hole at the end of their short nakago. Koshirae is not as old as the sword but still pretty old. Nagasa 67,5 cm, nakago 17,5 cm, tsuka 22,0 cm, overall length of koshirae 95,3 cm

I'll also jump in the sue-Soshu train. As you are in Czech Republic you might want to hit up: http://nihonto.Japan.cz/Having experienced collectors giving you personal advice would be a good thing. Don't try to polish it by yourself. Members of Czech nihonto club can teach you a lot, so it will most likely be a very fun experience to meet with them. As far as polishers in Europe I believe Massimo Rossi (Italy) and Tony Norman (UK) have both gotten nyusen in competitions. I've never been in contact with either of them so I do not know their background more than that.

Going bit over my own level here but I'd guess that might be 2nd gen Yoshitake who is listed working at Kyōhō (1716 - 1736). I am thinking this as the first generation used to sign Izumo no Daijō. I don't think your sword is o-suriage but it's little shortened from the bottom. I can't say if the mei is genuine but it does start on the position where Yoshitake signatures tend to start. However in your sword there seems to be a strange looking bump, which makes me think that machi has been moved bit more down the blade. So the sword would have had a tad longer blade length originally, or that's what I think. Can't help you much with this but if the signature is genuine the smith is quite good. Definately could use a look by someone more experienced than me.

Thanks for the writeup Dirk and amazing lineup of items. I need to get myself to Bonn too as I've been planning attending one of the meetings down there for a good while now. Seeing the items and some familiar faces makes me want to grab a flight so badly...

I must say I am really torn... That sword has a lovely sugata, it's somewhat perfect for my collecting taste. 87,7 cm, 3,8 cm sori and wide and strong sword, signed and dated... I will say I don't know how Morisuke ranks in the hierarchy among Bizen smiths but for me that is not a big deal because it's more important for me that I like the sword. But then comes the but... You can find so many amazing swords in this price range. That is the really tricky part as I think the sword is amazing and I think I could look past the flaw but when I'm thinking about the possibility of investing that much money into a sword it gets really complicated. So I'm kinda balancing between the things Thomas and Brian said before. I'm with Thomas that sword in overall would be almost perfect for me collecting wise but I also share the view that Brian told about wanting a sword in best possible condition after certain price. I can't even dream of shopping in this price bracket so it will be irrelevant for me aside from dreaming. The answer to original question, yes I could live with a flaw like that on the diamond of my collection.

I think 相模守藤原国綱 Sagami no Kami Fujiwara Kunitsuna.

There are few that are being sold by Japanese dealers. I'm not sure how appropriate it would be to link them but you can search 古青江. Darcys stuff is always top notch, and he can definately get you geared in these rarer items.

Fredrik you are in luck as Scandinavian NBTHK branch is based in Stockholm. I will PM you emails of 2 of our members. Stockholm is good place to live for a nihonto enthusiast.

I would second Steves guess of 四. I checked Kajiharas glossary and there are listed varieties of mokkogata tsuba form names by the number of "lobes" they have.

Sign me up too.

I think Dirk summed up pretty well how I feel about this thing. I like really old stuff the mostly due to the history attached to the pieces. Swords made during the modern age do not have the same historical importance in my view yet they have other qualities. What Thomas said is also true, we need new makers to keep the tradition alive. Likewise we need new collectors & enthusiasts to keep the tradition alive who collect new stuff as well as old stuff. In short the newer the sword the better condition of the sword would be important factor I'd guess. Seeing as tameshigiri would be about the hardest use swords of modern day will have to endure, and most precious modern blades will probably not be used at all for cutting things. So like Dirk said above, flawless typical work of the smith would be of highest importance, or that is how I believe. The debate about "power relations" between smiths old vs. new - new vs. new I'll leave to more experienced folks.

The most important thing is that you like the sword, I don't think anything else really matters. As you are buying it for yourself. I will say that the "Hizen smith code" by KarlPeterSmith is bit controversial subject and it is a research in progress. See more here -> http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/14763-tadayoshi-waki-expert-help-on-mei/page-4 How long are you staying in Sweden? There are people who have great nihonto knowledge in Sweden and also on Hizen swords. I am not personally that fond of Hizen swords, and I don't know a thing about them. Still I'm guessing I should have around 100 Tadahiro signatures (various generations) scattered across my books & magazines. I think I could gather bunch of them up for you if you'd like. Like others before me, I would be leaning on gimei. I also think John at Nihonto Australia seems like a good guy, I've only exchanged few emails with him.