Jussi Ekholm

Looked like another top notch meeting, I wish I could have attended it. I'll let more senior members who know more give a better answer to Brian but I think we have good bunch of quite young collectors here in Europe.

Here are few small thoughts from a novice. As for creating conversation, that is a tricky topic. Sometimes the good discussion requires high level of knowledge and unfortunately I know I'm not yet at that level. Take for example that extremely informative topic created by Ford about Shibuichi restoration. To take part and actually saying something with real insight on a topic like that takes high level of knowledge, that is why it's bit difficult to get a very active discussion going. For example in that topic I could only give my thanks to Ford about posting it. I don't know much about tosogu or shibuichi but I learned a thing or two from that topic. One thing that is often feared is asking stupid questions or giving incorrect answers. As this is a place with high level knowledge then people are sometimes hesistant to post maybe even some good questions which would create good discussion. I know books are always recommended and books are amazing I can say this as a book collector but there is a but. I have sometimes thought if it would be more beneficial to ask a question here out loud rather than just jump into my books and search the information for myself? I think questions are often needed to spark some discussion. I know as I've been trying to create some public discussion in Finnish language about nihonto, it's very difficult if nobody says anything and you are just writing stuff. What kind of information people will like to know? This is a hobby for very small group of people so it's understandable that this is not a messageboard where a message comes in every minute. I think NMB is quite active message board given how specialized our subject in here is. I think at the moment various sword forums NMB, SBG, MyArmoury, SFI etc. are working well alongside various social media platforms Facebook, Reddit, Twitter etc. There is lots of activity going between one and another. I tend to hang quite a bit at SBG where various production swords are the main subject, as I feel that I can offer more help and knowledge in there if people are interested in Japanese swords. As unfortunate it is I know that at my current level of knowledge I can't create that much high level discussion in here. Hopefully those from various forums who have serious interest will then join our ranks in here. I know several have joined so it's a good thing. Gabriel is helping people out at Reddit, and lots of folks at various forums know about NMB and will recommend this place for Japanese sword study. NMB members are really helpful bunch, and this is in my opinion very friendly forum. I think the quick identifications, translation assistances, price asking etc. are somewhat going on in many forums. I've gotten used to it so I don't really mind it. It takes so much time to gather knowledge about swords & weapons to make a good guess how old your Japanese sword, Arabian dagger or European polearm is. And you can most likely get an answer from people who are specialized in that field if you ask the question in here for example. I can understand it very well, I've asked few translation requests too on another forums as I cannot for example understand Arabic. Of course as Japanese swords are so often signed then it is easy to seek translation assistance, and I think that many think that it must be really valuable as it is a Japanese sword.

Thanks for the correction Steve, it's always very important to use correct kanji when using them. I was lazy and copied from dealers site without checking... Should have done the usual checking. I must say that on my phone these two kanji 末未 look almost identical, however on my computer they look noticeably different as they should because they are different. I'm no tech guy so I find it really weird.

未関 = Sue-Seki So I think that the seller described it to you correctly.

That restored set looks stunning. Thank you very much for posting this up Ford. I had no idea about these features of shibuichi.

Does it have 1 or 2 ashi (hangers). I think the upper portion is nishiki (brocade).

It's Gabriel, he is doing valuable work at Reddit. I've never really understood Reddit but it's great to have someone with knowledge participating there because I think Reddit is quite popular among young folks.

1st 吉井住吉則 - Yoshii ju Yoshinori 2nd 駿河守国正 - Suruga no Kami Kunimasa Others can hopefully provide more info about the swords.

Damn Elvis seems to be everywhere, I could almost swear I saw him few weeks ago in Tampere... On more serious note I was wondering how complicated the group ordering will be? As I was just browsing around the CD Japan that Dirk linked earlier and it can be ordered through there quite easily, and with already very reasonable shipping costs.

I'll get one copy. I really like the books that Gakken has published before. I was sold at this: Including many National Treasure and Juyo-Bunkazai swords all reproduced in the full size. I think the full sized pics in previous books are amazing.

Awesome Jean, I think that Yasumitsu is my favorite of the bunch. Of course lots and lots of viewing would be needed to be certain about that.

I'm just very beginner as Japanese language student so I can't offer much assistance. I'll give you my thoughts before the big guys chime in. I'll show in hiragana what I mean. Zusetsu Nihonto Yogo Jiten is my glossary bible, as it has readings in kanji, hiragana and romanji. Bô hi - 棒樋 - ぼうひ is the only one written with ひ hi in hiragana. Rest of the bo hi types in terminology is written usually with び bi. However when categorizing then ひ is usually used. For example, varieties of hi 樋の各種 - ひのかくしゅ. As you ask for the day 日 hi. Then it's ひ in hiragana in basic form but for example in weekdays it's bi び (yôbi ようび). I didn't know the English name for this reasoning but I found Wikipedia entry on Rendaku: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku

Very nice sword. I tend to like long hira blades, there is just something about them. Of course the fact that it is Muramasa makes it even more amazing. I hope you don't mind the quick photoshop I did. It was done in few mins but it will show how symmetrical both sides are.

Tsuruginoya seems to have 4. http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/mn3_2_1.html

I think there are things that can be learned by seeing multiple replica swords of various cultures. Sure it might not give more knowledge about the authentic swords but it'll give other type of knowledge that might be usable when for example determing the origin of the sword. As I said earlier I've been lucky enough to briefly own swords from multiple production companies over the years. So far the best Chinese made katana I've owned was made by Kaneie. I got very lucky and got this by trade for an average sword. This would cost much more than I would spend on Chinese made katana. I then traded this to a high end longsword, which I later sold to fund a nihonto purchase. That being said I didn't like the balance of the sword but that is quite subjective thing. Other than that the sword was pretty sweet. I'm just putting up the pics so everyone can see that some of the Chinese made production swords are very good. This is about their mid-tier sword, this sword is mono T10 blade. You can notice the "hada" on the blade even though this is monosteel sword. They can create a hadalike pattern with their own hybrid polishing process they call Kessho hadori. When you see this in person it actually looks quite nice, the best I've seen among the production swords. Sure it's not perfect polish but in my opinion these swords start to be at an overall level where it becomes quite hard for a regular person to say if they are Japanese or Chinese made. Kaneie has to my knowledge had some Japanese swordsmiths and craftsmen visit them and help building up their knowledge. That is one of the reasons how they can produce much higher quality work than rest of the Chinese manufacturers. Here are 2 pics of details on their more traditional swords. I know this is kinda off topic as this is not about the sword in OP. I still think it's important to recognize the different quality that they produce in China. As Jason said in the previous page maybe we should have an Izakaya thread or something on how to differentiate obvious fakes, low-mid quality production swords and high quality/custom swords by non Japanese smiths from nihonto.

James, do you have pictures of your sword?

But searching the few out of the norm blades is so fun. Found one, Shinogi-zukuri wakizashi by Soshu Masahiro, dated Meitoku Sannen (1392), Sano museum, Masamune book n.48.

I did a quick search on some of my books and failed to find any pre-Oei. I found 2 Nobukuni wakizashi, one shinogi-zukuri and one shobu-zukuri dated Oei Yonnen 1397. All the dated Nanbokucho era wakizashi that I found were hira-zukuri. I can search more books later when I have more time. It's quite interesting subject.

Mariusz have you checked your eyesight lately as I think you might have something in your eye if it hurts? Just kidding mate. You can hear crickets chirping at the SFI Japanese sword section, heading to SBG is the logical thing nowdays. While I agree that the Chinese made production stuff is not in lines of nihonto forum I still think it's sometimes nice to discuss them even in here. No these are not art swords but cheap and affordable user blades. But I really think this is above average production sword, heck I might buy a blade like this for 400-500€'s. I think it will be a nice cutting sword. I've cut with plenty of Fred Chen swords over the years and I think they are pretty good cutting swords in general. The more pics I see of it the more I'm thinking about Fred Chen & Cicada. There are multiple big names in China, Paul Chen (Hanwei) and Fred Chen (Huanuo) are the most well known. In my opinion currently the best forge in China is Kaneie, the Zhejiang Zhengs that Mariusz linked above is low-mid tier maker in my books. Here is the Fred Chen website, and yes they sometimes even sell nihonto: http://www.huanuosword.com/ I think one of the major issue to us who collect nihonto is how to call these. Like Kam I think Chinese production blade is pretty good term. These are not fakes as they are not even sold as genuine Japanese swords in most cases (but apparently in this case this was but it was not from the source in my opinion). Historically there weren't problems as other nations had their own swords. Now you have European, American, Chinese etc. smiths producing Japanese style swords. So it gets somewhat complicated.

I think it's a good sword. I still think that it's made by Cicada Forge. They used Fred Chen, and I tend to like some Fred Chen blades. Now that I got home I can provide some reasoning why I think what I think. I guess Cicada Forge died in 2007 but I was able to find some pics through the Wayback Machine. At Summerchild Polishing, look at the hamon: http://www.summerchild.com/itemcom1.htm FS, at Myarmoury, look at the hamon + same F&K: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.8943.html Some old pics of Cicada Forge line up: http://web.archive.org/web/20050204221611/http://liveblade.com/cicadaforge/iaiyoavailable.html, http://web.archive.org/web/20060805132858/http://liveblade.com/cicadaforge/liveswords.html Cicada Forge offered custom swords, wo you could choose the parts. Many Fred Chen swords back in c.2005 had similar hamon style. I think the F&K might be Fred Chen "exclusive" as it can be seen on several manufacturers who used Fred Chen for example DGuertin/Oni/Kensei. I think it's monosteel, so no hada. I believe that the effect you see on the blade is created by skilled hybrid polishing. Those skilled in that art can make "hada-like" surface to the blade. I bought an used Paul Chen PPK for 150€'s that looks like it has tight hada. See the pic attached. That is achieved by skilled hybrid polishing on a monosteel blade which in reality does not have hada. In general I think nihonto collectors give too little credit for these production blades, some of them are actually darn good for what they cost. I will say I have bias for them as I started with them as young kid. Better pics will of course help, and I can and I will change my opinion if I'm proven wrong.

I would think the same as Guido. My guess would be a sword from companies using Fred Chen/Huanuo from the early 2000's. That was long ago when I was starting my collecting as young kid so I can't remember all the models from to of my head. My guess is it might be Cicada Forge or DGuertin. Both made good quality reproductions but both companies went under over 10 years ago (at least that is how I remember it). You can search their sites through wayback machine (Internet archive), and old posts at SFI.

As a fellow member of NBTHK-EB I can say that the organization is great as is the knowledge among the members. I agree that joining NBTHK (or any other sword group near you) is very important. You will get to see amazing items with people who can tell you more about the items on display. Our Scandinavian NBTHK group is very healthy with great people & meetings. I haven't been able to visit the meetings in Germany yet but I met some of German members in the big European meeting in May. I think the communication within NBTHK-EB is improving all the time. I remember when I joined several years ago, I didn't get any information about the Scandinavian branch or the German meetings by some email problem, I just got the membership card in mail and the magazine started coming. I was amazed to find out some years ago that there is a very active NBTHK group in Sweden, as for me it's possible to travel there fairly easily. I'm trying to attend the meetings when I can because they are great. So as I was getting only magazines for the beginning of my membership, I can say at least for me they are enough reason to be a member, as I stayed as a member not knowing about the local meetings. There are some amazing articles published in Token Bijutsu over the years. I'll just have to improve my Japanese skills greatly to fully enjoy the magazines. However I will say that for me the other NBTHK-EB members and the meetings are the things that really make the organization shine. Magazine is just a nice membership benefit.

Looks to me like 時代大永頃 - Jidai Taiei goro, 1521-1528.

Looks very nice Piers.

I'm pretty sure that most of the books will have sori measurement from munemachi to tip. After all this is how sori is measured according to pretty much every book I have. I own couple very nice oshigata books that have fullsized oshigata and they are amazing, I've spent lot of time with them as they have blades that interest me very much. These books list the curvature like this, which is really handy. So by just looking at the numbers you get bit of information how the sugata might look like. 反り - Sori 茎反り - Nakago sori I believe full length from nakago end to kissaki end is 全長 - Zencho. For some very curved old tachi this overall curvature can be very large. I measured few for the fun of it. I took 3 swords for which Imeasured this, as the overall curvature is my own measurement it's only c. as I couldn't get it down to mm accuracy as the book has folds and I am very careful in stretching the pages. 1st sword: nagasa: 80,3 cm, sori: 3,2 cm, nakago sori: 0,7 cm, overall curvature: c. 6,0 cm 2nd sword: nagasa: 84,4 cm, sori: 3,2 cm, nakago sori: 0,6 cm, overall curvature: c. 5,0-5,5 cm 3rd sword: nagasa: 83,7 cm, sori: 3,8 cm, nakago sori: 0,4 cm, overall curvature: c. 6,0 cm First two pictures are of sword n.1 and third pic is of sword n.3. As both of the swords I own are tachi I can give similar stats of them as those above. Kuninobu: nagasa: 67,2 cm, sori: 1,9 cm, nakago sori: 0,4 cm, overall curvature: 3,6 cm Kanemoto: nagasa: 84,6 cm, sori: 2,5 cm, nakago sori: 0,4 cm, overall curvature: 4,5 cm And as curvature is discussed Mariusz has just listed this one: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17117-ubu-kamakura-tachi/ Don't know if this post is helpful in any way but I had a lot of fun writing this and measuring things.