Jussi Ekholm

The part I didn't understand was between hada description and hamon separated by ,, Also subdued is better English word than sinking for nioiguchi. I think hadatachi is common trademark of Hōju school. The above mentioned book is great source for Hōju blades as it has 10 of them. And it just happens to be one of my favorite books. :D

Info on sword n. 20 in that book - is roughly here. I've had a long day so there will be errors and this is already bit above my understanding. Like always I trust that someone more experienced will make corrections to it. 重要美術品 - 太刀 - 銘 寳壽, 正中□年正月日 - 鎌倉時代 （ 一三二四、 五）東京都 武蔵御嶽神社蔵 - 刃長 七四,二 反り三,五 元幅 三,四 - 鎬造, 庵棟, 反り高, 中鋒. 鍛えは板目に杢目交じり肌立ち, 総体に白ける, 刃文は直刃に小乱交じり沸つき, 匂口沈む. 茎は生ぶ, 先栗尻, 鑢目不詳,目釘孔一個, 銘は表に二字銘, 裏に年紀がある. 宝寿は平安時代以来続く奥州舞草鍛冶で現存する寶壽ものは鎌倉時代初期以降室町時代後期に及んでいる. この太刀は正中（ 一三二四· 五） 年紀があり, 殊に貴重な資料である. Jūyō bijutsu-hin - Tachi - Mei Hōju, Shōchū [] nen a day in new year - Kamakura jidai (1324-5) Tōkyōto Musashimitakejinja zō - Hachō 74,2 cm sori 3,5 cm. Motohaba 3,4 cm - Shinogi-zukuri, An-tō, Large sori, Chūhō. Kitae is itame and mokume it is hadatachi, (I don't understand this), Hamon is suguha and ko-midare in nie, nioikuchi (sinks?). Nakago is ubu, saki kurijiri, yasurime can't be determined, 1 meguki-ana, mei is niji mei, there is date on ura side Hōju started late Heian period in Ōshū. And Hōju is early Kamakura extending to late Muromachi period. This tachi is Shōchū (1324-5). This is very important article.

Left one is from Koto-meikan - Middle one is your - right one is from Meito Oshigata Shu, as description is in all Japanese I couldn't read it correctly quickly but I think it says this wakizashi was made around transition period from Kotō to Shintō, so I suppose this is the same smith as in Koto-meikan.

More pictures would help in identifying as it will be hard without seeing the blade. Just looking at the signature my guess would be Mino and late Kotō. There were several Kanenaga working in Mino province during late Kotō period. However in Koto-meikan there is oshigata of Tenshō era Kanenaga and he seemed to use similar curved bottom left stroke for naga.

I don't know about it now that I can guess age by nakago but I must confess if I saw that blade with tsuka on, I would have probably guessed Hizen and mid-late Edo. So I would have been very wrong.

Stephen, could you at least post the overall picture of the sword so we can see the sugata? And some measurements would also be very helpful.

I don't know anything about Hizen swords and they are bit later than my main interests. However as they are good swords I can still appreciate them. So I am just chiming in to second what Markus said about running Hizen article series in Token Bijutsu. 468 is the first number in my library and it has article: Hizen-tô #25 – Jishin-mei of the 2nd gen. Tadahiro (忠広) and daimei of the 3rd generation. In that article you can see about c. 30 Tadahiro mei, with an article that explains things (of course I personally haven't read it fully [just small pieces of it] as my with my beginner Japanese skill even small articles take so long to translate for myself and all Hizen articles are long). Lots of interesting information in this thread and hopefully it will continue on.

Ken the difficult thing is that swords are one of a kind items so it is hard to put a set price on an item. Someone will pay more for some item than someone else. The question is how much is that particular sword worth to you, how much are you willing to invest in it? For example I've had an eye out for a certain sword at Japanese dealer for a long while. It's been for a sale for a good while even though for me the price would be perfect and if I would have that amount of free money I would buy it in heartbeat. However it's not considered to be a top deal as it haven't sold in this time. For comparison few last swords added by the seller were sold almost instantly. Nick is a good seller, have you taken a look of this sword, might be something that you are looking for? (it's much easier to "recommend" stuff if you have something specific you are looking for ) http://nihontoart.com/item-details.php?id=123

That looks very nice, I can't wait to see that one in person.

Yep it's 4,1 cm I think there was an accidental typo of 1 sun too much which would explain the 3 cm. There are many who know Japanese better than me who can explain differences but they both mean blade length. 身, mi ; 上, kami ; 上身, uwami all mean to my understanding the blade above machi, where as nagasa, hacho, hawatari, uwami no nagasa etc. mean the actual length of the blade from machi to kissaki. So in short I believe that both 身長 : 刃長 have the same meaning. For example I have 2 Sano museum books, one uses 身長 and another uses 刃長.

Very nice book find Randy. I believe the title is 中 ( 心 押) 形 庄内刀ノ内 - Chūkokoro oshigata Shōnai-gatana nonai , I'm not exactly sure about those in brackets.

Well I guess that I don't understand how that post of mine sterilized the discussion. I am not a car person, and I am not aware of Dr. Tilden's classification. Heck my car knowledge starts mostly from late 90's, so discussing old cars with me is bit limited. For me sword & knife classifications make a lot more sense as they are what I've been mostly interested in. Classifications are just classifications, they make things easier and sometimes humans like to put things in neat little boxes. Gokaden is just a form of classifying things. If you don't like it you don't need to use it. You can for example just speak of provinces by themselves without any bigger classifications. I am personally starting to be more a fan of the gokishichidō classification as I am learning more and more. Markus of course explains many of the errors of this classification in his blog post oppsed to gokaden. Having Enju as an example of Kyūshū-mono and it's connection to Yamashiro tradition. However I am not an art connoisseur or metallurgical expert, I'm a historical romantic so many times the minor details are not for me. For example in Kyūshū-mono I like Bungo and Naminohira, Bungo swords from Muromachi period are not generally appreciated very highly but they are good enough for my taste. I know I can't collect the highly regarded smiths/works so I must try to collect good swords from lesser regarded smiths. I don't know why you dislike the Mino tradition? Mino was a highly important base of sword making during the time when Japan was in turmoil, so to me that is historically important.

I think you can look at European swords throughout the years and they will look somewhat similar to each other for a thousand years. It's a design that worked for the people who used it. Maybe not the best design in the world (neither Japanese or European) but it's something that will definately be capable of killing you. Here is Geibig typology that is used in c. Viking period swords Here is Oakeshott typology that is used on c. medieval swords. Yes there are in my opinion greater differences in European swords throughout the years than in Japanese swords but it's understandable given the circumstances. There are some regional varieties so some swords can be for example be identified as English, Italian, German, Scandinavian etc. longswords (but you have to look the sword as whole, not just the blade) and similar to that. Some viking sword styles are much more common in some areas based on the findings etc. 1. I think this is a tricky one and it takes lots of knowledge to say 5 big Yamato schools from each other (at least in my opinion). As I've always been wrong with my Tegai - Shikkake guesses, for the few times I've had the joy of guessing. I'm not sure if you have nihontō kōza but in that book (and probably in many others) you can see the distribution map of Yamato province and that it was divided to 15 areas. The text about various Yamato schools will then explain you their historical origins. As an area Yamato province is quite small, as most of the Japanese provinces tend to be as there are so many of them. So the various schools within the province are very close to each other geographically. - For example we have various regional knife styles around Finland. I can identify the few well known ones but experts would probably be able to tell around what part of the region it was made and by whom, similar to Japanese swords. Gokaden as a classification is most likely not the answer I think you seek Peter (based on the part after numbering). I think you are trying to find out about the line where very early Japanese swords evolved into a curved single edged sword, and why it stayed that way? Carlo Tacchini has written an excellent article about the evolution of the Japanese sword, it can be found on the articles section http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/47-on-the-origins-of-nihonto/

Guido don't you know this rare german Volvo 190? I attached you a picture of this car as the few surviving examples are cherished by collectors worldwide. Luckily I photoshopped found this rare picture of it. On more serious note I find it funny how specific my own collecting interests have evolved in the last few years. As I know I can only own few blades I want them to be exactly to my liking, well of course as near that as I can achieve with the very limited budget that I have. I browse sword sites pretty much daily but even though I see lots of amazing items for sale very few really speak to me - as in that is something I would like to have in my own collection. It's good thing to appreciate various swords but I know that as I can only have few swords in my own collection I want them to fulfill my own collecting desires as much as possible. I'll definately pick the sword I like over a higher quality item no questions asked if the price is similar.

Awesome Markus, those books are great as I love all old & mythical stories. They are great to read even if you are not into swords, there is something beautiful about old folk tales.

I had to rush to class so the translation part was left out as I didn't have time. I've seen in many sword books that numbers are just two kanji under eachother. For example when length is is centimeters or item number is mentioned etc. I don't know how correct it is but we tend to shorten numbers similarily in speech in Finnish language. Firearms & swords registration card Registration place & number ( I couldn't figure out the place ) Type of sword - tachi , nagasa 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu - rin Sori - sun 2 bu 5 rin , mekugiana ? (but it has 2) Mei, omote - Bakufu-shi Kawai Hisayuki made at age of 75. Ura - Man'en (I don't understand what this means in the middle) 12th month. Cultural properties committee Issued at Shōwa 26 6th month 6th day Someone can translate the missing parts and correct the errors. I looked and it seems that the sword is published in 新々刀大鑑 ( Shinshintō Taikan ) and it has Koshu Tokubetsu Kicho papers. In pics it looks like a very good sword to my eye. The ad and tōrokushō seem to have incorrect sori 2 bu 5 rin, the book has 5 bu 5 rin which sounds more reasonable, NBTHK papers have 2 shaku 5 sun 1 bu for length while tōrokushō and book have 2 shaku 5 sun 2 bu (76,4cm).

Here is what I think, there are 2 blank spots. I saw your sword at Winners while I was checking the mei and I think it looked very nice even though I'm not really into swords of this era. 銃砲刀剣類登録証 登録記号番号？？？第一 〇七〇号 種別たち長さ二尺五寸二分, 厘 反り -寸二分五厘 目くぎ穴 ？ 個 銘文 表幕府士川井久幸七十五歳作 裏 蔓延元甲年十二月 文化財保護委員会 昭和 二六年六月六日発行

I would say it's Paul Chen Practical Pro Katana. Judging by the blade, wrap, tsuba, menuki and the very long tsuka. Menuki Tsuba In overall too many identical things with Paul Chen Practical Pro. Looks like sageo and sword bag were changed. Regardless of the long tsuka I think it's a solid 300€ sword, but the current asking price is way too high even though I know production swords are bit hard to get in South Africa.

I checked Seskos and there is Masayuki with civilian name Hamada Masajirô 浜田政二郎 but as you can see, different kanji for Hama. He is listed at Genji, 1864-1865. I don't know a thing about Shinshinto and I'm not sure if the above Masayuki ever used Hamada as part of his signatures. I just thought it might be logical that it could be a false signature trying to be his? The above mentioned Masayuki was Musashi province smith and Kôfu/Efu (I think it can be read either way?) is in Musashi province. Too difficult and complicated for me but fun puzzle. I would think like Steve, that in overall it seems weird. Would be nice to see pictures of the sword too.

Thanks for the help with translation Markus and Steve. Thank you Morita san for posting the picture of the tachi so everyone can see it. Jason and George guessed what I was looking for. I think this was the oldest sword in my books that had the that feature. Found few other interesting swords too with this feature.

I would recommend Kantei Zenshu (Koto & Shinto/Shinshinto) by Markus, they are very helpful books but I think they are from mid- too complicated and detailed for beginning. For beginners + advanced too I could recommend Koshirae by Markus Sesko, I think it's great book as it's fully focused on koshirae as could be guessed. :D Maybe replace The Craft with the new one by Kapps & Yoshindo Yoshihara - The Art of the Japanese Sword. It has amazing pictures and is a major upgrade for the old one as I have them side by side. Those would be my recommendations for the list, after those I fear my book recommendations would be too specific for narrower field.

Well I got bit crazy idea yesterday and thought I should do a translation of details of one of the swords in one of the Sano museum books. I felt it could be bit relevant for other topic we have been discussing lately. Like always, me translating by myself is always very slow process and I don't understand everything correctly. I guess the most important thing is learning by doing. I think I got most of it correctly but there are some parts I don't understand. Here is the text and my attempted translation you can see the ?'s within the text. 平安時代 愛媛県 大山祇神社蔵 刃長 ７８,２cm 反 １,５cm 元幅 ３,７cm 鎬造、丸棟、身幅広く、 鎬幅が広くほぼ中央に寄り、反り極く浅く、 鰤鋒。 茎は強く反り、先は無造作に栗尻とし 鑢目は 鋤か鑢がけか判然としない 目釘孔二個、鍛えは板目が細かく、流れごころがあり、きれいである。 刃文は単調な匂出来の直刃で大きく焼落し、匂口は沈みごころである。帽子は焼詁。 身幅が広く、反りが少なく、鎬の幅が広く中央に近く、区が深いなど初期日本刀の特色がよく示されている。 Heian period, (11th century) Ehime, Ôyamazumi jinja Nagasa: 78,2 cm, Sori: 1,5 cm, Motohaba: 3,7 cm Shinogi-zukuri, maru mune, mihaba wide, shinogihaba very wide it is almost at center of the blade, sori very shallow, kamasu-kissaki. Nakago has strong sori, nakagosaki is muzôsa? and end kurijiri. Yasurime is not clear and if it’s made by spade or file? (this part I don’t understand). 2 mekugi ana, kitae is itame that is thin. It’s running and beautiful. Hamon is monotonous made in nioi deki suguha, big yakiotoshi. Nioikuchi is ?. Boshi is yakizume. Mihaba is wide, sori is small, shinogi no haba is wide and close to center, machi is deep?. It shows features of early nihonto?.

Well as it was mentioned in another thread I thought I should make a new one. Ôyamazumi shrine has very large collection of items, including many massive odachi and naginata. Unfortunately I've never yet visited Japan but this place is on top of my go to list when I get to travel to Japan. There are of course some good quality pictures of some of items of the shrine around but I thought I would post these 2 interesting books up here if someone wants them. They are available for free at National Diet Library where I got them, and I merged them together. 国幣大社大山祇神社大鑑 : https://www.dropbox.com/s/378qgq7p7bd0nm9/Oyama%20Taikan.pdf?dl=0 大山祇神社案内 : 大日本総鎮守国幣中社: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7sudq04akdabyo/digidepo_912180.pdf?dl=0 Hopefully someone will find these useful. It's my first time using dropbox but I think it should work.

Don't be so hasty Jean I'm sure there will be more guesses coming in before the deadline. After trying to look into it, I think I would go with Bizen - Omiya. As for the smith, too difficult but I think I'd have to say Morikage like Jean said. I would like to have said different smith for the fun of it but Morikage is the only Omiya smith I have good data on in my own library.

Zusetsu Nihonto Yogo Jiten by Kajihara Kotoken has hikae mekugiana as primary term for this feature. However it also has shinobi ana as an alternative name. Here is the explanation part: 生目釘孔の他に開けられた目釘孔のことで、刀身を柄に強く固定する為のもの And I think it just means the second hole is for securing the fit. However you can find many large odachi that have only single ana, like here with tad over 92 cm nagasa. Which is in size that surely saw use. There are even much larger odachi around c.120cm nagasa that have single ana. So like usual it's easy to agree with Guido. And indeed shinobi-ana does have bit kinky clang to it, maybe my imagination is running bit too wild.