Jussi Ekholm

I believe Manuel is correct with how the lineage goes. The problem for me arises in that who would the smiths that the work is attributed towards, and how they come to that conclusion for a mumei item. As I have been tracking down old items, I have found out only 1 ōdachi and 1 signed katana that would be work of Chiyozuru Kuniyasu. For Chiyozuru there is smith Morihiro that was for few generations. He is currently the only early Muromachi Chiyozuru smith for whom I have many signed items in references. NBTHK has many mumei attributions directly for Chiyozuru Morihiro. This is not the only school/attribution where this happens to me, I am often puzzled how things can be attributed as X when there are extremely few signed references of X. I do think you got a very good deal. The negative of the blade is the short length but I feel it was more than compensated by the price you got it for.

Oh, sorry Mark. I have been member of NBTHK for 10+ years but I haven't realized they do not have an email on their website... The organization is so slow in their modernization. I think I have never contacted HQ in Japan by email, I think I should have an email somewhere for them as I did an online registaration of some sort few years back but couldn't find it anywhere... As you live in Australia, perhaps you could try to contact the American Branch: https://nbthk-ab2.org/ or the European Branch: https://www.nbthk.ne...opean_branch_english if they would have an email for the Japanese NBTHK. It is bit comical how difficult it seems to be to find an email... I will be visiting the HQ in probably c. 3-4 weeks time when I get to Japan. If you haven't gotten the email by then I can try to ask about it when I buy some of the books for myself.

Congratulations Adrian & Andrew

If you are needing some specific info on an item or 2 in the book you can PM me and I can send it to you after the weekend. Depending on how dire your need is for the book, NBTHK will probably have a new one in storage: https://www.touken.or.jp/shop/ Of course their price is quite steep but it is a sure way to get one. If you are not in a hurry they do occasionally appear on Yahoo JP or Japanese book dealers, that is how I got mine but it could be a long long wait that is unpredictable.

You made a nice find. I feel the research on the signature, and the whole item, is also warranted as there are several generations of Heianjō Nagayoshi. Here is quote from Seskos swordsmiths (I am not sure about the original source of this following information) for 4th gen Bunmei era Nagayoshi I know it is said in most (pretty much all) sources that there are no extant blades by 1st generation. However there is a 1339 dated katana in the collection of Kunōzan Tōshōgu Museum. For me it is way too difficult to differentiate various Muromachi period Heianjō Nagayoshi. However there is some variation in signatures that are authenticated.

The one with horimono that Ray pointed out above could be an interesting item. Still by only those pictures as information I would skip all the others. The katana length blades do not seem interesting based on those poor photos. The other wakizashi with 3 holes in the tang could be mildly interesting but looking at the low quality pictures its lines might have been buffed out.

Thanks for the awesome pictures Randell! I have not yet visited the new museum building in Berlin but your photos were so high quality it felt like visiting there. I would agree with Thomas that the Masamune is not by "the" Masamune but later Muromachi sword. There is (was) actually a meibutsu tantō called Kuroda Masamune: https://meitou.info/index.php/黒田正宗 but I believe it's current location is not known perhaps for few hundreds of years.

We have many collectors in the forum who specialize in WWII swords and have huge knowledge in these. They will be able to give you very good information. Unfortunately my own specialization is with very old swords, and I would probably lowball value these WWII items. Just to note some of the war time smiths did work of varying quality, some were of high quality and some were low-mid quality items.

15-20-30,000 dollars is a big budget. Like others above I would recommend seeing some swords in hand before deciding on the direction you are aiming for. Buying online can be bit problematic if you are new to swords and do not totally know what you will be buying. It can still be problematic even if you are experienced and know what you are buying. As for the high prices by (some) dealers, they are running a business and need to make a profit.

NTHK states this swords as ubu mumei - 生ぶ無銘 in their paper, so they see it as original length. By first glance it looked like a bit shortened sword to me but it is easy to be wrong when looking at items. You guys did well in finding that deal.

These look amazing

I will strongly recommend going. I went to both 2018 and 2023 events, unfortunately I have to skip this one as I will be in Japan. On both years I enjoyed lectures very much, I think on both years I tried to listen to all of them. They are very nice however they can be quite specific on certain subjects. For me the best part of the events is meeting the people around Europe. It is fun to meet some NMB members, NBTHK-EB members, people that I know from other sword related stuff. Previous years have been excellent on that front, lots of familiar faces. On 2018 event I enjoyed the joint effort of sword clubs/collectors as there was an amazing study section of very high level swords & fittings. Unfortunately that wasn't present in 2023. On both previous events there have been for sale swords and fittings etc. from affordable to very expensive. In general I didn't really see cheap low quality stuff being offered either year. The affordable items were also of quality, so I feel that it would be "safe" to purchase as first time buyer. Of course depending on what you are looking for there can be a variety of offerings. I have not bought anything from the events. The special Friday event might be a new one? I think the show last year was 2 days and 2018 special event was only for exhibitors etc. if I remember correctly. As you are from Germany there will be (most likely) lots of German guys with very high level of knowledge attending, so I hope you will meet some of them and maybe get to discuss some sword stuff.

If I have the correct seller I believe the seller often has ads on Yahoo JP & eBay. The items that he has are mostly not hidden gems but legitimate antique items yet often bit problematic. The pricing Japan vs. eBay can be very different, I think the current value of the item would be roughly what you got it for, as that was the price it changed ownership.

That was a fantastic display Thomas, so many interesting items in the pictures.

Nice list of dealers, many of them very high end. I think there was one bit of misinformation in the article. Authentic Japanese sword do NOT need NBTHK authentication to be considered as authentic.

Like others I would think ubu late Muromachi blade.

I believe mumei Bizen Yoshimitsu (賀光) as an attribution would be a mid-Muromachi attribution. I have not tracked work of these Yoshimitsu smiths as the earliest dated works I remember finding have been in Kanshō (1460 - 1466), and more works after that. Of course that would depend on how long you see early Muromachi going for and when you think it is mid-Muromachi as I don't think there are exact dates.

To my knowledge there is no public database of papered items, and no private data for members either. Staff most likely has the access to data as they can check the certificates. I agree with much that has been said earlier on this thread and it is complicated matter. It is unfortunate that probably NBTHK wont see international members (or non-members) as huge source to invest in as we are so few in numbers (international members). Still I think if I had any good ideas I should try to send them directly to NBTHK. Unfortunately haven't gotten them yet I never visited the old NBTHK museum so I cannot comment on that. I remember last summer I thought I would use the NBTHK reading room when visiting the museum but I was adviced I would need to call and reserve it in advance. Which I felt might be a bit complicated process with my very limited Japanese. As for comparison I was able to use Tokyo National Museum research facilities without prior reservations and got my hands on some books after filling in proper requests for them by their computer. I think I might try to reach out NBTHK if I could try to use their reading facilities this summer and see how that will go and what references I might be able to request. NBTHK publishes the Jūyō & Tokubetsu Jūyō books for every session and they are a huge resource. I believe when visiting NBTHK reading room you could request for example specific Jūyō book to study. So living in Tokyo area it would be easy to study them, for us international folks it is much harder often needing to buy the book(s) if wanting to study the items.

TJ set sold.

I have voiced my opinions and thoughts about NBTHK shinsa in few threads lately, even though I am a long time member who has never submitted anything to shinsa. I hate to talk swords, fittings etc. and money. Ideally I would leave money completely out and just discuss the items. However over the years NBTHK has achieved monopoly position in appraisal market and I don't think that is a good thing. Of course as I wrote examples at last post on this subject how much revenue NBTHK is creating on the shinsa. I think they have calculated the maximum numbers that they reduce the panic of deadlines while still keep the organization running financially on solid base. I believe they had to set the limits per session as more and more items were being submitted each time. Hopefully NTHK / NTHK-NPO, JASMK etc. organizations would get more recognition by the community and could perhaps try to up their game a bit in the appraisal field. It is not a good thing if pretty much only certificates by 1 organization are held in value. For monetary value the NBTHK appraisal can carry huge difference, for example depending what attribution the mumei sword gets...

It is quite rare to have so long hira-zukuri katana. NBTHK states in brackets that it is (Uda school - late Muromachi). I am actually not sure what the 2nd paper is, to me it seems to be NTHK paper but it is unlike other NTHK papers I have seen. Is it possibly the very low rank NTHK Shinteisho? I have never seen those in person so I cannot say for sure. The NTHK paper also gives Bunmei (1469 - 1487) as an era. I think it is interesting item but unfortunately condition might have issues.

Unfortunately there are no English translations that I am aware of. I think the problem in selling these and my other books is that they are highly specialized so the number of interested buyers world wide is extremely small. That is the problem when I keep searching more and more specialized and specific books, selling them will be almost impossible. I asked the postage costs to USA for the TJ set and it seems to be c.75€ so bit expensive. I thought from the beginning that these would be a hard sale but I did think that Sesko Meikan set would sell quite fast.

NBTHK publishes the financial report yearly, so it is easy to see where the money comes in. It is featured every year in Tōken Bijutsu magazine. I won't post exact numbers here but I can list few things to give some insight. Reiwa 5 - 2023 report Jūyō shinsa makes little bit more money than full year of NBTHK Sword museum admissions. Yearly Hozon/Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa generate roughly 8x the money yearly NBTHK Sword museum admissions. (This seemed to be very good financial year for museum admissions vs. previous ones) Reiwa 4 - 2022 report Jūyō shinsa makes bit over 4x money vs. full year of NBTHK Sword museum admissions. (I believe this financial year had TJ shinsa too) Yearly Hozon/Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa generate roughly 15x the money yearly NBTHK Sword museum admissions. Reiwa 3 - 2021 report Jūyō shinsa makes c. 2,8x money vs. full year of NBTHK Sword museum admissions. Yearly Hozon/Tokubetsu Hozon shinsa generate roughly 15x the money yearly NBTHK Sword museum admissions. I am not interested in economics or money stuff in general but it is easy to see that shinsa sessions are huge source of revenue for NBTHK. Those interested in financial stuff can pick up the May issues of the magazines as they have the full information with exact numbers. However the money brought in by shinsa sessions actually provide the means to NBTHK to carry out their purpose as listed above. You need enough money to cover the expenses of the organization (which are also listed in the report) in order to keep it running.

I am a fairly longtime member of NBTHK and I am supporting the organization as I believe they are doing many good things. However I have never sent anything to shinsa and for the forseeable future I wont at least in few upcoming years. This is bit astray from the original topic but as I feel the discussion is quite interesting. While I do believe the system that Japanese shinsa provide, however I believe for all of the organizations it is business. And while various organizations of course work as well as they can, there are several factors that affect their full capability. Here it should be noted that I have never been even close to a shinsa session and do not really know how they work. For NBTHK time seems to be a limiting factor. As some may know NBTHK has now put a maximum number of 1,600 blades for Hozon / Tokubetsu Hozon tōken shinsa. I do think the submission numbers were higher than that recently so they had to put a limit in order to manage deadlines. I am not priviledged enough to know how they process the swords and evaluate them but when you process 1,600 swords within a limited time, you cannot actually spend huge amount of time per one blade. I remember few years ago I discussed this a bit with Darcy and perhaps we tried to crank some numbers. I am not mathematically that good but I know that big number of items with limited time equals little time per each item. Here are some numbers for recent Jūyō shinsa that are of course previously already passed Tokubetsu Hozon, so items are already verified. Session 69 - Application period 2.10. - 4.10. and 828 blades were sent in. Final judging for swords 1.11. and 56 blades passed. Session 68 - Application period 3.10. - 5.10. and 817 blades were sent in. Final judging for swords 2.11. and 66 blades passed. Session 67 - Application period 4.10. - 6.10. and 852 blades were sent in. Final judging for swords 29.10. and 111 blades passed. I do believe NBTHK probably might have one of the largest reference collections. Plus I believe they do keep a record of all issued certificates but I believe they would classify them by number as that will make it easiest to search specific certificate numbers. As that is the most logical way to keep them. I would also believe that access to NBTHK certificate data is to staff only. However with the reference materials I can focus on the second issue time vs. reference materials. As we all know there are some common references where we usually check the signatures. However in order to make a reference book effective you can only feature X number of items per specific smith. When working with time restraints there is a limit how much research you can do. When you have to go through hundreds of signatures within one month it gets bit limited compared to researching one specific signature for multiple months. I take Bizen Nagamitsu (長光) here as an example. Fujishiro - 8 reference mei Sesko Meikan - 11 reference mei In my personal references I have 207 different (verified by experts) signed items by Nagamitsu The reference books will create a good general base for signatures but there are possibilities not featured in common references. Of course in general you don't have to dig up all the possible reference signatures of the smith but sometimes few in common references might not be enough. And the final thought on my mind that must be considered is expert knowledge. I have never attended NBTHK meeting in Japan but the times in Europe I have been around senior NBTHK-EB members I have been astonished by their kantei skill and knowledge when quickly viewing items. The kantei sessions in both years at Utrecht were really nice to see how much details people pick up in extremely short viewing. I will always remember taking my own tachi to NBTHK Scandinavia meeting where a senior member told me fine details after a minute or so viewing the sword that I did not know about my own sword I had owned for quite a while... I think that my point is to encourage doing research and having fun doing it but at the same time there is a reason why NTHK or NBTHK shinsa team would have certain members, they are experts.

I don't really like the item from Aoi Art, there are some things on it that I am puzzled by a bit. For Nanbokuchō Masahiro you most often will find short & wide wakizashi instead of tantō length blades. I will also recommend budget of 10,000$+ even for the "lower" tier verified mumei items, and these will be also very difficult to find. Signed and dated ones, good luck finding available ones... Here are few references for you. This was 11,500$, very nice item: https://web.archive....0/Soshu_Masahiro.htm I didn't get the price for this but nice item: https://nihontoantiq...ahiro-sword-fss-857/ Personally didn't like this as much, 1,6M yen: https://www.seiyudo.com/ta-010121.htm