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Everything posted by Hoshi
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Does polishing absolve all sins?
Hoshi replied to Northman's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
It’s possible. It’s also one step before the hadori. However it is appropriate only for a few types of blades, ichimonji in choji comes to mind. And then it’s impossible to capture on camera properly. There isn’t a cookie-cutter polishing style which is better for everything. Each blade has a « best in class » polish and Tanobe-Sensei would be the best for advice. Even within schools of polishers, honami, fujishiro, etc, there are flavors or ways to do the polish which will gives different impression and result at the end. For instance, mishina’s hadori heavy style is best for Shinto blades, whereas Dodo-san does miracle on Bizen I’ve heard. Can be training, artistic take, but it can also be rare stones. Polishers aren’t interchangeable. They’re artists in their own right hand and are very much inseparable from the final product. So it’s not just « hadori vs shashikomi » but rather the process of choosing an artist for a particular piece of work, with all his peculiarities and sensibilities. I think the bad rep in the West from hadori is there because we’ve been exposed to cheap and misleading hadori jobs due to excessive bargain hunting. -
Possible Kagemitsu tachi. Signed and in polish
Hoshi replied to gustaf's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
This isn't the Osafune Kagemitsu. As for what it is, it's very difficult to say. If I'd venture a guess: Shinshinto based on shape and hamon style Ubu or close, second Mekugi-ana added to make it seem O-suriage Gimei with the intent to pass as Osafune Kagemitsu Example of Kamakura-period Osafune Kagamitsu. -
There is a substantial overlap between these schools, and an attribution to Enju can mean different things. It can be a quality assessment "lesser Rai" in the absence of defining traits. And in general Rai is better. But there are exception in which the Enju piece is at Rai-level in terms of its Jigane, hamon, and other characteristics, and goes to Enju because of the Boshi. It's a case-by-case basis and each blade needs to be evaluated individually to figure out whether the judgement is a quality call or a school call. Repeat this over time that the best Enju work gets absorbed into Rai, and the bad Rai get sorted down into Enju, and you end up with attribution-as-quality, notwithstanding the exception based on the defining traits. Back to the NTHK, I would be interested in learning about blades which have scored highly as well.
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Soshu to Yamato can be quality gradient for some smiths, for instance in the case of Yukimitsu, especially the work with medium to high shinogi. The best work will go to Yukimitsu, and the lesser work to Yamato Taima. The cross-fertilization between Yamato and Soshu is even more pronounced in Yamato Shizu vs Naoe Shizu. It's not just the hamon which intersect. Ultimately it takes knowledge to differentiate between an attribution as a statement of quality, and an attribution based purely on defining characteristics. For instance, Enju generally means 'lesser Rai' but in some cases, the blade may be 'Rai-level' in Jiba and feature a defining Enju boshi which will put it at Enju with the quality of Rai. Something tells me its the same high-end collectors with green paper to Masamune and Juyo papers to Yukimitsu which will come to say 'high-end Soshu is all subjective and a matter of personal preference' - not the other way around. Strange how things flow in one direction only I've yet to see a collector show me a proper Masamune and whisper "you know, this is really Tametsugu...NBHTK is wrong..."
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Ambiguously worded. While I agree that I haven't personally heard of a change from H to TH, changes do happen at Juyo and TJ. It means the judgement is converging to a better idea after deeper study. There is nothing to gloat about. Exactly my point above. Go the the NTHK if you want Muramasa judgement on a wide-gunome blade. Use that wiggle room to extract maximum cash. Because these are judgement of quality first and foremost, Uda means "below Norishige student" on top of meaning Uda. Shimada means "low quality late soshu" in most cases. Now you have exceptions to this once you get a judgement at the smith-level for Uda, e.g. Uda Kunimitsu means Uda Kunimitsu, outstanding Uda smith who even has a blade at Tokuju. I'm not convinced of this, but assuming it is the case - it could simply be because the NTHK uses Mihara to communicate a certain standard of style and quality, while the NBTHK uses Sue-Bizen. It's not like these works follow an archetype, there is a lot of fungibility at the lower levels. The lower the attribution, the wider the error-bar. My Shizu is a Masamune. I made a HUGE bargain on this one. The NBTHK is just plain wrong on this. They also made a typo on the paper and added "Naoe" before Kaneuji. Thankfully my sword-sensei knows the truth because he was initiated to the secret Honami methods through the scrolls of the late Chosiki. You wouldn't imagine how much I paid for it! Jokes aside, there are many foolish rich people who think they own gold when they own lead because their ego prevents them from appraising the situation objectively. Now, there is wiggle room between Yukimitsu, Masamune and Shizu for some swords which can fall into the middle, like a very notorious tanto, but on the whole - the majority of the corpus is very well differentiated, to say it's a matter of personal preference is a wild hyperbole...
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The problem with multiple standards of certification is straightforward: Submit twice Discard the lower attribution Profit I suspect this is why dealers in Japan generally regard these alternatives with mistrust. Imagine if they all played this game, the mess it would be. This is why personally I would also be suspicious of a different provider of Kanteisho if there is not an accompanying NBTHK kanteisho, and would be a no-go in Japan in particular where such an occurrence (Big name + NHTK kanteisho) would raise immediate red flags. So it seems the natural equilibrium of commerce has converged to the NBTHK as the norm to avoid this wiggle room. And in my opinion for good reason, because the NBTHK has not one, but four opportunities to revise its judgement. This means that bad calls get the opportunity for revision provided the blade is good enough to advance. This also means that attributions at the highest level are more reliable - and generally more precise - than attribution at Hozon. Hozon will typically be more conservative in judgement, with a greater use of 'buckets' where one needs to read between the lines. Juyo sees the bulk of the refinement in attribution. This is most often where a bucket can be further specified into something more specific, or a bad call overturned. Tokubetsu Juyo: This is the final chance to set the attribution to the best idea and as such it's a big burden of responsibility.
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Here is the one tanto koshirae which is juyo from him. I am arguably biased from that singular example, and there is a variety of styles he worked with. My worries reside entirely in the expression of the tigers (more westernized, less Japanese) and composition (very heavy even for him) not with the workmanship which I agree is commensurate, at least based on the photos we have at our disposal. I am sure that in hand we could discern much more (e.g. are those strips inlays or not?)
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The dragon passes the sniff test, it's the big cat which don't. These cats look much more modern than what would come out of his workshop in style and presentation, based on the (arguably limited) corpus of his work with which I am familiar which are in the Juyo volumes. Here is another fake piece sold not too long ago. Now the style of cats here work, but the quality and composition are low. Now I could be mistaken and Katsuhira opted for a completely different style of cats at some point in his career...
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Doesn't look right. Too busy, and the representation of the theme doesn't fit the corpus either. It's a kitsch imitation designed to appeal to a wide audience going 'wow' and not knowing really better. I suspect a late Meiji workshop has been producing this one. Just like this one here and perhaps this one here. The F/K set by contrast is very elegant and beautifully carved.
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Where is this tanto koshirae from? Something doesn't look right quite right about it. Seems like late Meiji imitation made for export.
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Visiting Aoi Japan - First Nihonto Ever
Hoshi replied to radicalrad's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
"Three blades max at once" As if its a courtesy to be able to see the merchandise. The reality is that you will be much better served in terms of customer service in the many Ginza shops, such as Ginza Choshuya. There you will find a wonderful English speaking staff which will entertain you about swords and fittings while offering you fine tea. AOI photoshops blade to hide flaws, and this is just one of their many, many questionable business practice. While it may have the biggest online presence in the west, and they do once and a while have a good blade up there for sale, this is a rarity. They specialize in 'problem swords' which are hard to sell in Japan because of some hidden issue which allows them to buy cheap and sell high by exploiting ladder theory. I call their offering the 'freak circus' because you have all sorts of strange things, such as the RAI tanto with an unbelievably disgraceful horimono, a bizarre Ichimonji with a hamon which no longer corresponds to its old Oshigata, a Chogi tanto with a Hitatsura tempering which doesn't fit the smith, but the signature is authentic (?). The deeper you dig, the more you know, the more unsettling it gets... -
Visiting Aoi Japan - First Nihonto Ever
Hoshi replied to radicalrad's topic in Auctions and Online Sales or Sellers
I wouldn't touch any of these blades with a ten foot pole. Stay away! the Koshirae are makeshift junk 'bought by the kilo' and the blades are exceedingly poor in quality. While they look good at first glance, I guarantee that as you dig and dive into the hobby your eyes will sharpen and you will see it as what it is. Generally AOI is full of landmines and you need a lot of knowledge to avoid getting burned. In your price range what you want is MUMEI + top Muromachi / Shinto / Shinshinto maker. The MUMEI (no signature) will cause the price of a very high quality item to dive down to oblivion. This is how you can get away with a top quality piece at a steal. For example, a mumei first gen Tadayoshi which was, if I remember correctly, priced at 550'000. I had a look on the web to see if by chance I could find something nice as a starter piece within this very tight budget. I couldn't, even looking a prior listings. But as soon as you break 3.5+ you can start finding things which meet the criteria above (mumei, high quality, Muromachi+) Here is one: https://tokka.biz/sword/kanemoto6.html A fine Kanemoto Wak with the classic Sanbonsugi hamon (saw-tooth pattern). Healthy, no flaws I can see. A piece which illustrates an iconic style of hamon of the late Muromachi period which would endure for many generations. The price would be five times what it is, had the signature been preserved. As a bonus, there is a so-called 'Kinzogan' mei, a gold inlay inscription which reads Kanemoto. Now, the question is which generation kanemoto. This is a question for you to research, and here you can find a good primer. Of course the better option is to wait and build your war chest. Wait and see what comes up. Look for big names or big schools on the NBTHK papers, flawless, healthy and mumei of these eras. In the meantime study, study, study. Collecting Nihonto is a very slow hobby... -
Green paper Muramasa on eBay: ✓ Enough said at this point. I have to admit the burley oak with plastic Mon sticker made me chuckle...
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Oh my. Nowadays we don't need to bash on a Kabuto to 'test' steel. We have software to simulate their physical properties. We can demonstrate by simulation that modern steel is superior in every possible way, except aesthetics. Tamahagane was good for its time, but by modern standards its a total disaster. Nobody would use it for any application when you can buy precision-engineered tool steel by the billet. If you're looking for the best blade steel for the application then go ahead and buy a billet from one of these. I would argue that preservation requires destruction. Blades made to trick and swindle newcomers and collectors damage the whole craft. But this topic broaches into something wider, namely how to evaluate the value of a fake and whether or not fakes ought to be preserved and considered art or not, and if not - whether it's a moral imperative to get rid of them.
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I see kinsuji, ara-nie, and other typical Koto activity. Mokume/masame mix, with the hardened masame on the Ha creating activity. Blackish steel (could be a photo lighting/burnishing visual bias). These are signs of a tired old koto blade, big risk that the hamon runs off the edge. Overall, I my best guess is late kamakura/early Nambokucho, Northern province, could be UDA, or Sanekage. Inspiration is clearly Norishige with an attempt at Matsukawa. Could also be some old mumei hankei beater. But aside from that, it's unlikely to be Shinto. Stop screwing with it with Uchiko immediately and have it inspected carefully by someone in the know to check for fatal flaws.
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Stay away from both. Don't touch either with a ten foot pole. Ludicrous prices on these otherwise close to worthless waks. Shinto era, kanbun, unsigned ~= 0 value Mid-edo period from chu-saku smith wak ~= 0 value This deal is also known as the 'noob trap' or the 'pay your dues before you enter the hobby' trap. Skip on the entrance fee.
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It's not Morikage. It's a mumei shinto sword trying to masquerade as something else. This is exactly the type of thinking "maybe it could still be Morikage and I'm the smartest buyer in the universe" which makes these tainted objects dangerous. Get rid of the paper and make a profit. Easy and immoral. This is why I'm making a case to use such swords as cutters. A noble ending with its intended purpose.
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Well, I'll be a contrarian here. I don't subscribe to the value that nihonto are sacred objects and thus must be preserved on this principle alone. Some are of little to no value anymore as collectible items, but still possess practitioner value. Others have been ruined because of greed and now masquarade as things they are not. Take a defaced sword - such as a healthy shinshinto or shinto blade attributed to a great smith - while such a sword has close to zero collectible value, the hardiness and quality of blade still makes it a great cutter, one which can be used without any guilt with regards to damaging a historical artifact. I'd go so far as to feel that for such a ruined sword, on some animist level, it's a charitable act to return it to its original purpose for one last generation... Because what is its future? To be sold on Ebay, pretending to be Koto, to be corrupted further as part of some sick swindler's game. Better the honorable destruction. For instance, consider this tainted sword: https://tokka.biz/sword/shizutada.html Mumei Shinto, with Kanzan Shirasaya to Morikage, a solid gold, daimyo-level habaki and a second mekugi-ana to pass off as suriage Koto. There is nothing honest left about this sword. Sooner or later, it will be used to deceive again, and again. I would argue that we have a duty of anti-preservation here. To remove it from the market is the right thing to do because it exists are corrupt object. And what better way than to use it for its intended purpose? Discuss.
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I don't even know what this poor Shinshinto blade was trying to fake. Return it to the seller.
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The most obvious explanation is that these are made in china, and the production methods are simply getting better. We're witnessing Komonjo blades Gen 5. The first one were terrible chinese fakes, and slowly he's upping his game as he can re-invest the proceeds of his scams. The Nakago remains plain wrong in shape and finish and the proportions on the Kissaki are off. Give it five years and we won't be able to tell anymore. "Apprentice blades sold under the table" is just a way to romanticize his merch. And it contains its own sort of twisted irony: he's actively contributing to putting traditionally-apprenticed Japanese swordsmiths out of business.
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Beautiful work. The relief on the rabbit's head and how it is seamlessly integrated with the body carved in the negative is absolutely exquisite.
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This isn't a tanto. This is a broken shinto wak/kanata which is being repurposed into a 'tanto' to salvage money. Most likely because the original blade has a hagire or a similar fatal problem.
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Interesting. I wasn't aware of stamped manufacture in this domain. With the malleability of copper under pressure, it makes a lot of economic sense and must have been a very cost-effective manufacturing process.
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Remember that Japanese culture is extremely polite. Horyu is a gentle way to say it won't pass because something doesn't match. Translated into american English, I fear it means something much more dire than 'try again next session'. It's not going to change if you resubmit I'm afraid unless it's an extremely borderline case and some new scholarly data comes up. If you remove the signature it will come back as something else if the signature didn't match the deki. In case the signature itself is deemed bad, it may come back as a mumei piece of that same smith. Tanobe sensei would be the person to tell you more about it and if it's the later case you need to be very mindful before engaging in signature removal.
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It's a little bit apples and orange. Very different swords which capture different periods and makers. The Sue-Sa with the gimei gakumei has been making the rounds for a while now. It sits in a weird spot of 'almost juyo' and good for Sue Sa. But Sue-Sa is a bit of a cryptic attribution because it can mean anything from direct student to fully diluted end of line. I think here it's quite clear it's late Nambokucho, perhaps bleeding somewhat in Muromachi, worst case. It was tried on auction last year to test the water, but the reserve was too high and it didn't sell, without papers to try and get some gamblers on board. Good one to haggle on as its been sitting in inventory for far too long and after a while people start to get suspicious. The Yamato Shizu is Yamato sword. Personally I really like the Koshirae, to the point where it makes me like the sword perhaps more than I would otherwise. That said, Juyo 19th is a weak session, where borderline things which wouldn't pass today could pass back then. I don't know enough about Yamato Shizu to say if it applies here. But It's not Naoe Shizu either, which at Juyo 19 I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. It's one of those cases where it can be an interesting deal but because of Session 19 you need to study very carefully the other Juyo Yamato Shizu to see where this one is situated. The Ichimonji has great activity, shusho, period koshirae etc. It's a great package. The only thing that kills me is that its on the short end but it was so strong on other aspects that it passed Session 61, which is a good session and this tells you something important. At the end all of this is priced in. You can be sure that if it was ten cm more it would close to double the price. It's also fresh on the market which is desirable.