Ted Tenold

From Symbols of Japan, Thematic Motifs in Art and Design, by Merrily Baird; Arm of a Demon. The artistic presentation of a forearm with fist refers to a legendary episode in the life of Watanabe Tsuna, a retainer of the Heian-period warrior Minamoto Yorimitsu (Raiko). Watanabe is said to have accepted the challenge of spending the night at Kyoto's Rashomon Gate, which was haunted by a fearsome demon. When the demon appeared and touched him on the head, Watanabe responded with a slash of his sword that severed the demon's arm.

Yup, looks like a seven to me too. Mayby part of seventh as in generation, or perhaps something like Nanjusai "seventy years old" with the other characters obscurred. The obverse left character looks like Mune, and the two on the right X shu. Mune was a popular Myochin character, maybe start looking in that school.

Steve, Keep in mind that the Japanese sword is essentially a provincial creation, and development of changes are measured more in terms of evolution over generations. The basic differences evolved over long periods of time as schools developed within provinces or regions, then over time expanded, migrated, branched off, and even deteriorated to the point of dying out. Each generation perhaps changing some things in the form of baby steps in most cases, though there are examples of radical changes in workstyle for reasons not fully clear. As warfare, politics, and even economic influences changed, so did the sword with them. The most elementary of this is the shape which evolved with changes in warfare, or the lack thereof. Entering the 17th century, there was a greater confluence of travel and interaction of smiths that mixed the provincial elements into more general ones, and smiths changes smaller details a bit more rapidly, and this included things such as nakago shapes and yasurime styles. These features are halmarks of the smith, the school, the period, and sometimes even the timeline of the particular smith's working life. Smiths also made works inspired by, or even copies of, older works that would dictate implimenting the elements of that origin work, even if not their normally executed workstyle. Then again you may have a smith that copies the style of an earlier period but puts some small element of their normal style into it as a recognizable hallmark of their standard tradition. Clear as mud, eh? Over time, the haze starts to settle, but don't ever expect crystal clarity. :lol:

Not necessarily true in the most general aspect though. I've asked this question of a Japanese smith in the past and the response was that it was the *easiest* to do, so much so that it is generally the first yakiba that an apprentice smith attempts. When you consider the number of possibilities of things that can go wrong in more complex hamons, it's a point of fact that some are *much* more difficult than others. As an example, Ono Yoshimitsu has mastered Juka Choji (stacked clover) and his copies of the Yamatorige require a huge amount of time for preperation. It takes him multiples of the normal time (I'm told days) to lay the tsuchioki (insulating clay/material) for the pattern to develop properly. He also is very particular about outcome and only accepts the very pinnacle works. Any minor flaw or unsatisfactory characteristic is cause for destruction and starting all over again. Going back to suguha, I would also add this though; There are a great many hamon that are in basic form, quite attainable. The real skill is the development and control of the *finer* things within that particular hamon that make the grand differences. Features such as the brightness of the hamon, the hataraki elements, the consistancy of the nie if any, their quality and development, the depth of penetration and consistancy of the nioi into the yakiba, ashi, etc., all make the profound difference. Arguably the quality of the steel is the major contributor to the outcome as well, but the forging is also an extension, indeed the very basis, of the smith's skills to make a qualitative yakiba. Hamon and steel must harmonize for a sword that in the end, looks greater than just a sum of parts, suguha or otherwise. Details, details, details, and thats what really contributes to the enjoyment some (myself included) have for sugu based hamons.

Great explaination Guido. Here's two more images showing further examples on a gendaito. These are essentially examples of the "unintentional" types that Guido commented on that aren't flaws, but mearly cosmetic. Notice the central solid field of hardened area surrounded by various formations of nie, while there are also concentrated areas of the transparent nie patches. Granted it's interesting activity, but the randomness of it illustrates how unintended things can happen. This sword is by Chikamitsu, dated 1943.

Forget the legs on the pigeon...Look at the biceps on that rabbit! He's got some guns! That's what pounding Mochi will do for ya. :lol: Very unusual piece. Signed habaki are rare. I think from a technical standpoint of a foil covered habaki, this might be quite a bit more difficult piece to make.

Very interesting set Barry. I would venture a guess at these being Hizen/Namban fuchi kashira, and perhaps the tsuba as well looking at the shape of it. No seppa though, eh? Was it fitted this way?

Well, I also have to admit; I thought Guido's response was danged funny, and I'm fairly sure it's not the first time Guido has been called "尻". I think a *lot* of patience gets exercised on the NMB already. I know my first thoughts don't always get to print, because the benefit of the doubt gets granted. As moderators, I can also say that we make a firm attempt to not be the first ones to jump into a thread and answer questions because it shortens the interactions between members and can lead newbies (or others) to the false conclusion that moderators are "know-it-all's". But like Ford said, why should moderators be the only ones to temper their words, especially if others don't. How many threads go astray because posters don't "temper themselves"? There were reponses given to the OP's question. Perhaps others here should subject themselves to the same self control the Moderators are expected to demonstrate. Otherwise, all I can say is "People who live in glass houses, should not throw Orgies". This forum may not be for everyone, and I for one don't think it possible or prudent to even try to entertain "everyone" who chooses to visit. If anyone thinks Guido is being hard on folks.....he pales in comparison to many forms of education in the culture of Nihonto.

Very contrived looking John. Not even scripted well in my opinion. Very obvious fake and nothing I can make any sense of, but the image isn't good enough to make out better details. I have a feeling that even if it were, it wouldn't change the answer.

Austin, nie of even the finest type can be seen with the naked eye. Now *glasses* may be needed, but a magnifying glass on shintetsu will only magnify the shintetsu. Kyle, sorry buddy, but this is clearly shintetsu. The first clue is the lack of any real "life" to the steel. But a larger clue is the fact that in the ji, and shinogi there is a profuse amount of ware and course grain coming through.

I think this piece is a copy casted in a sand casting mold. There are a number of features that point to that; Lack of crisper details that would be expected of Choshu. Sandy Texture of the iron and generally gray appearance. Small "bubble" nodules in some of the details. Roundness of the seppadai and nakagoana edges. Mei details are blurry and look melted. In closing, it may be old, but it's not Choshu. Sorry, but that's my take on it.

Not really common, but fukure can occur in the yakiba. I have one here in the shop, but I wouldn't call it fatal eventhough it's in the yakiba because the surrounding steel has a great deal of mass around it to support it. We have to be careful not to confuse what is fatal from an art value standpoint, versus a weapon standpoint. While the sword I have here has limited value as collectable art, it is still a fully functioning and dependable weapon. All fukure are not created equal. The magnitude and location of any flaw determine the level of concern. Saiha blades are technically fatal flaws (at least from the art collector's view), but so many are out there and can be regarded as still functioning weapons.

Yes, but you can't open them in the presence of the Daimyo. Does make me wonder... Will shops now have katanakake at the entrance to put you umbrella on? :lol:

The yakiba looks like pretty standard seki work. The mountings look Inaka-mono (countryside work), crude looking. My guess is this was made for export or tourist trade.

I agree with Curran. I had a tsuba very very similar to this and it was an Aizu Shoami.

Mikeal, Please understand that I mean only to be constructive when I ask you; If this sword were mumei, would you be able to truely distinquish the difference between junk, mediocre, precious, and treasure? Many people cannot, but rather see a sword that doesn't appear stunning in any way and would proceed without hesitation thinking that it is nothing special. "It's just a suguha hamon" or "It's retempered anyway" or "I'm just removing the chips" all are very poor rationalizations that lead to actions that have serious and irreversible consequences. I can relay at least three personal incidents of swords several people thought were "nothing special" that ended up being Juyo level swords. They had been looked at by a whole lot of people and thought to be of no consequence, one so damaged that it was thought not only to be of no qualitative consequence, but also unrestorable because of the damage inflicted to it. Both thoughts were completely wrong. This is the fear of all that appreciate Nihonto. So Brian makes a good point about not encouraging conversations about "do it yourself" projects. The enthusiasm to restore something often leads to folks using completely wrong approaches and materials. Sandpaper is not an acceptable wholesale replacement. While it removes metal, it does not restore the blade correctly regardless of the quality of the blade. Is this really making it better? Or just creating a new form of detriment? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There was also the use of different adhesives besides Matsuyani. I've seen raw lacquer (urushi) mixed with sawdust or stone powder used as a backing material and adhesive. Japanese black pitch was also used and is quite strong. Shiroganeshi, Tsubako, and Swordsmiths use this to secure the piece while working. It is not the kind of pitch you can find in jewelry supplies though. It has a different properties and composition. Perhaps Ford can elaborate on it more. You might want to determine what the material is so you can address it most compatibly.

Nothing wrong with being accurate, or a schoolmaster. Headmaster maybe but not schoolmaster. :lol:

Getting any images from Tsuruta-san will be of very limited value. In order to fully view the kitae, the cross section needs to be prepared by polishing and etching. The papers are very interesting in that they show both the suriage nakago and the original which documents both pieces ase part of the whole, yet the description lists "mumei (Rai Kunitoshi)" with a reference to the mei on the other piece. We could speculate that the sword was intentially broken or destroyed post WWII by either requirement of law, to prevent it from of falling into occupation hands, or by perhaps an occupational soldier out of duty or vengence. Who knows. The visable marks on on side of the original blade show what could be either a saw or a file. The hardened edge would not saw or file easily and likely there was only a partial cut made with the coup de grace being the act of just snapping off, thus would fracture the hardened edge as well. The chip may not have been the result of use or battle but rather the result of the cutting or breaking of the sword. Because there are no other chips of the same magnitude, or apparant severe damage, it could be reasonable to assume this theory.

Yes, it would be an interesting candidate. The study might have limited results because the sword is already showing some fairly extensive depleation of the jigane. It was quite polished down before having been broken/sectioned, and the remaining areas in the osuriage show a great deal of looseness and less than appreciable hada seen in healthier examples. None-the-less, it would be interesting and educational. We need some benevolent patron of the arts to step forward and purchase this sword so that the nakago can be sent to me for study. Any volunteers? :D Hard to say with any conviction when the sword was shortened. My feeling is that it was modified to fit a koshirae, gunto or otherwise and perhaps the ana was misplaced requiring the hole to be filled and redrilled. The silver habaki looks quite contemporary to me and likely was made within the past twenty or so years, so that is a clue for us.

So this one not only had red rust, but also a red shirt. Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Togishi!!!

I agree with Reinhard. Signed Rai Kunitsugu, and wrong in a number of ways for that smith. Oddly enough, I had a sword in my shop last summer that could have been this sword's near twin. The placement of the mei, which was also Rai Kunitsugu, and the shape were very much alike. In hand it looked like some kind of late Senjuin blade, maybe Akasaka Senjuin.

Hey Mike, It really depends on how good the work in the blade is and it's condition. If it's good work and restorable, then having the signature removed is just part of the process of making it "honest" again. In short, it'd need to be examined for potential. If the work is lackluster or the blade diminished, then it may not be a good candidate.

Rod, He usually attends the San Francisco Token Kai, and sometimes the Florida Token Kai. The Florida Show is this coming weekend by the way. http://www.floridatokenkai.com/

Lee, As a moderator on the forum, I am obliged to be blunt sometimes, and as a person who is very often in touch with martial artists using live weapons, I have a very low threashold of tolerance for improper or unsafe applications, thus my opinions regarding folks swinging unsafe Nihonto around that can potentially cause harm is anything *but* moderate. Admittedly, my message does have a harsh tone, and in truth, meant to be stern, but not demeaning. Perhaps its the experience *I* have that lends to this hypersensitivity. Though I will step back and say that I am sorry this first posting experience was not exactly warm and fuzzy for you, I stand by the intent of my message and hope that you understand the sincerety of my concerns, shared by those who also contributed. Until this previous post of yours above, you gave me no impression that you were entertaining alternatives other than taking action to secure the blade in the shaft for training and sequester the losses to the MOP during use. So if there are any misunderstandings, I believe they are mutually shared between us. I'm glad and relieved that you are choosing to preserve the naginata rather than use it in training. May it bring you many years of enjoyment. Also, per forum rules, please sign your posts with your name. You can add it as a signature to all posts in your profile.