Ted Tenold

Mark, The Osafune Choshi Token Hen has an example of a Sukenaga Daito. I quickly glanced the commentary and it notes that he called himself the 58th generation from Tomonari. I don't have the ability to resize the scans so I'll email them to you. I had a sword signed the 57th generation that was also signed Sukenaga. There's a bit of vaguery in a couple of these generations and that was capitalized on by forgers. Finding hardfast examples can be a challenge and shinsa may be the only choice if the work looks righteous.

Interesting that on the page listing their inventory, the link to this one (Number 4 on the list) is titled as "Tokubetsu Juyo".

Quite true indeed. My comment was perhaps too glib. At the end of the day, the market sets the price. But that price is generally seen as relative to condition, quality and rarity, and for the most part these considerations get compared to other smiths of arguably equal caliber. Fundamentally speaking, this is accurate in it's general application. However the "mystique" of Kiyomaro, bolsters the prices of his works to bigger than life proportions. This mystique factor contributes to other smiths as well, such as Muramasa and Hankei. In my opinion (worth what I charge for it )the magnificence of even the best Kiyomaro works vs. the prices they tend to get listed for are inversely proportionate to that of other master pieces. So collecting good work does not entail focusing on the highest prices asked whether realized or not. As your other thread illustrates, there are many good works out there by smiths that didn't board the "fame" boat (whether they cared to or not), but are none-the-less, good works. Work vs. signature, tempered with price is all I was trying to express.

Guido hit the nail on the head. There was a very long Kiyomaro for sale some years back. 32 inch nagasa if I remember correctly and it was listed for well over a million dollars USD. At that price I'd have to ask myself how much I really want a Kiyomaro vs. several other excellent swords I could have for the same price. For that one could re-unite the Sansaku of Osafune with some top rated works, and have change leftover. But I guess if one has the budget to even consider the price, perhaps comparison shopping is a moot point. To answer your original question Ken, there's no way of knowing how many swords he produced. In his state of mind he probably couldn't have told you himself. It will forever be a mystery wrapped in enigma.

Hi Klaus, Please send me an email directly and tell me the user name you registered and I will be happy to look into it. Also for everyone, if you have problems or concerns in the future, please email me directly, or PM me rather than address it here on the thread. In respect to NMB, I don't want this thread to dominate over other threads. Thanks!

Hi Bob, I sent you an email.

Hi Henry, I'll send you a PM. Thanks,

Hi All, Just FYI, I opened bidding to listed items this morning.

@ Jean; Who knows what will come up? I have this weird US postage stamp with a plane flying but it's printed upside down... can't be worth much as a misprint. :lol: @ Keith; Yes, the problem with general auctions is that essentially anyone can put anything up. Places like Ebay can't possibley police and vet every single item listed. Let's face it, that's like one guy trying to authenticate every item at a swapmeet or flea-market before the sales happen. I just wanted a place that I could dictate what gets put up, for what price, and stand behind everything I sell there. It's a bit more labor intensive, but has the merits you described. We'll see what happens. I have so many more little odds and ends around that I'd rather sell them on my bid board than try to deal with all the hassle, jerks, and fees of a commercial site, even if I might not get as much for them as I might in a wider exposure of a commercial market. Like I mentioned before, I can use it to list thing for other folks too, but they'll be described and gauranteed as listed according to my comfort level or "screening" if you will. @ Bob; Your reference went right over my head. Thanks everyone for the vote of confidence! The response has been very re-assuring. Edit: Also forgot to mention; there will also be a section for "Reverse Auctions". This is a method we see on forums occasionally, though not really the intended method by the seller, it's just a different way of finding a buyer. The way it will work is that the item will be listed at a starting price. If it does not sell for that price, the item will drop in price increments periodically until the absolute base is reached (which may or may not be announced) or the item sells. It could be fun based on how the price might make for some itchy trigger fingers!

As Patrick pointed out, it really is subjective depending on the individual's chemistry. It's not something that can be generally recommended. As an example; I've worked on a lot of swords owned by Iai practitioners. Iai styles vary greatly in techniques regarding contact with the sword during use, "noto" (replacing the sword to to the saya) specifically. A client came to me with his sword and asked me to address the rust that was forming on the sword. He had only just started using it and the rust was in streaks along the mune and shinogiji, and thought perhaps there was something in the saya. I asked him to show me his technique for noto and he did. I pointed out that the rust streaks were consistent with his hand and finger contact with the blade, and that the problem was likely him and not the sword. I removed and neutralized the rust at his request, and he was back again the following week. My response was "go back to using an Iaito". He didn't sweat any more or less than other people. His chemistry simply was not ammenable to steel. So what may very well work, is subject to some careful consideration because it's not a good general approach. Leave patination to the pros.

Me too! Hopefully it will be a good experience for everyone. Thanks! @ Brian; Thanks very much Brian. I appreciated it. I placed the announcement in what I felt the most appropriate spot. Believe it or not I had this board and it's members in mind when considering it way back when, and elluded to it when I stepped down as moderator. For so long, we've lamented the obvious problems with other venues. I know another member here has started a Nihonto specific auction site. It looks great and I wish him luck. I plan to participate there too. Of course listing items here is great too, but bidding scenarios don't work as you well know. There's been a good registration response, and bidding for items will begin very soon. Thanks All!

Hi Jason, After registering, I will send you a confirming email. You'll answer that one from me and I'll activate your registration. Thanks,

Unfortunately, I cannot this year.. again. I will have to live vicariously through you Jean. So make sure you get really drunk and wake up in Yoyogi park the next morning, or I won't have the full experience. :D

Hi All, I have a new venture (or adventure :D ) in selling that I'd like to make everyone aware of; Ted's Bid Board. The inspiration for this is my experiences in numismatics when I was a kid. My father used to take me to a coin shop on Saturday afternoons where J.R., the owner, had a simple bid board in the shop. He would take your name, address, and phone number, and put it in a ledger and assign you a bidder number. To this day I can still remember mine, #1153 . Coins were attached to a simple index card and hung on a pegboard on the wall. A minimum starting bid was listed by him, and then bidders would write their number and bid price on the lines of the bid card. The bidding closed on Friday nights and the board was cleared on Saturday morning. New items were put up on Monday and the cycle repeated week after week. He would call the winning bidders and then they would settle up with him. If a bidder didn't pay, they lost their bid board privelidges. It was a lot of fun and so incredibly simple that I felt like trying something much like it. The simplest way to augment it was a phpBB type format. I really don't like dealing with the hassles of selling on ebay (though I do occasionally still buy there) and didn't want another "auction" atmosphere. . I wanted a very casual place that was basically just my own, with no extra fees, hassles, or red tape. I'm the only one who can list on it, so all items are gauranteed as listed. No one else can post items to it unless I post them for them (for a nominal fee) subject to my comfort level and rules, and then by virtue I would gaurantee what I describe on the piece. So, there are a few items up for review already, but bidding hasn't started yet. I'd like to get at least a few dozen folks registered before beginning the bidding. All the information regarding rules, bidding, minimum starts, etc., are on the site, or will be in the individual description. Registering is indeed a process just because over the last couple of months I've been playing with it, the bots have been trying to access it. Since registration requires my personal authorization, they have not been able to gain access. The downside it that registration is a little more involved and takes a little more time due to the confirmation process I must do with every real participant. When registering, it would be best for you to register with an ID that doesn't look suspicious, because those get deleted by me without response. I suggest that you put your name or use the same ID that you do here, because I recognize most of those. I will require confirmation of mailing address, name, email address, and the ID you want to use during the confirmation process. Payment info is not required until a bidder wins an item. If you do register and do not receive a confirming email response from me, please email me directly. Your ID choice might have the flavor of bot and I may have deleted it accordingly. Have a look at it and if you feel like you'd like to take part in it, then please send a registration to me. http://www.legacyswords.com/phpBB3/index.php I want to stress that this is a bit of an experiment for me, and somewhat uncharted territory, so please be patient and understanding of this. It is still a bit of a work in progress, so no whiners! :lol: I also want to mention that it's not restricted to Nihonto items. I have lots of tchatchkies, bits and bobs, and whozeewhatzits laying about just waiting for new owners. It might even be fun to see what I come up with. :lol: Thanks!

One should not be so quick to assign blame for their condition as found to the location or organization in which they were discovered. They may well have already been in a condition (or lack of quality) that precluded restoration and conservancy, and thus were artifacts and not art.

Brian, I wish you the happiest of birthdays! Your work and dedication here is never goes un-noticed or taken for granted. Three cheers for a great guy on his Birthday!!! *clink*

I think Grey and Mariuszk are on track. This is not an old tanto in my opinion. Probably 19th century at the earliest for the aforementioned reasons, plus the nakago ana is very crisp and looks like a burr is raised at the rim from machine drilling. In addition, from what we can see in the images in what looks to be a newer piece, the forging is weak and unskilled. Though sometimes issues like that can be remedied, there's little that shows the ends will justify the means and thus it's probably not a good candidate for polish. Uda nakago are very distinctive (very straight with little taper, and a well rounded jiri) and the "kuni" in their mei is also uniquely written (with three verticle strokes in the lower left quadrant), neither of which are present in this piece.

These are all good reasons for lacquering, and there's no singular reason for lacquering them. It simply cannot be catagorized that way. I'd also offer that there is a juncture between hiding a flaw and covering one; lacquering the hi will provide an environmental barrier that polishing will not. A flawed weapon is still a useable weapon which was a very expensive and labor intensive one. Large or running ware are a place for moisture (water or blood borne) to intrude. Polishing and burnishing them will provide less protection against this factor than just sealing them with lacquer. So, lacquering seals, covers, and protects. Just my thoughts.

Good point Reinhard. However, I do remember seeing a Goto kozuka of a tethered cat attacking a mouse. I have to wonder what the underlying *acceptable* theme was for this. Indeed rare, but still an exception.

I'd also concur with Grey and Franco. Top notch craftsman, and true gentleman. He's also likely one of the last of his kind in that he was a true Uchideshi (lived with his teacher). This is almost unheard of these days as most trainees attend the studio of their teacher, but live elsewhere.

I've seen that before in the article and I think there's something that was lost in translation whether through misunderstood articulation or mistaken description. The subject of "XX" number of layers has been a subject of rather elementary contention for many years. It's impossible to accurately assess the resultant *extant* layers in a finished billet, so the only way to assign a reletive value is to employ exponential calculation. The reality is that the basic raw material, in conjunction with the style of forging, the desired goal, and the skills and methods of the smith, determine the final result but even then it's moot to assign a qualitative value in terms of layer quantity. If the material was crap to begin with, then folding it 15 or 20 or 100 times will not change a sow's ear to a silk purse. If it was good material and the smith overheats and/or overfolds, then the material may very well be changed from good to bad. Each heating of the material results in a loss of carbon. Each folding results in a loss of material (and who knows how many of the previously created layers), so the billet gets smaller with each cycle. Only so much can be done to mitigate the carbon loss with each heating. So over folding also means over heating which in turn can be detrimental to the composition of the billet in terms of suitability for sword production. There is also some amount of layer drift as the hammer strikes the billet and layers "squish" and intermingle. All in all, the way to look at the subject is that the material is folded enough times to meet the smith's desire and need for suitable sword material. The number of layers is interesting, but focusing on it somewhat pedantic.

I returned yesterday from the show and had a great time. Lots of really excellent pieces there. I had the chance to look at the Ima Aranami Ichimonji ( http://www.nihonto.com/AraIchi.html ), and it was everything one could expect from an Ichimonji and more. What a lovely piece. Many other really nice swords were displayed and the NBTHK/AB display and lecture by Bob Benson covering Shinshinto was a large success. There were examples of Suishinshi Masahide, Taikei Naotane, Yokoyama Sukekane, Tairyusai Sokan, Satsuma Masayoshi, and others. Mike Yamazaki also put on a great lecture with superb examples of fittings. I particularly enjoyed the charming little "Bunbuku" he had on display. There was a good attendance by foreign visitors from Japan, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Germany, and England. The show was well attended by the public and there was a buzz of interest in the room, but sales still seem moderated by overall economic pressure. Prices have come down on many items and the general feeling I got was that purchases were tempered by future concerns outside the world of Nihonto and folks are just exercising cautious prudence. However the interest and passion for the crafts is very strong. There were some great buying opportunities. I saw some potential "diamonds in the rough" acquired at very good prices, and some very nice and papered works as well. As always, it is a very enjoyable show with a fine group of folks that organize it. A big "thank you" goes out to these folks and the NCJSC for their tireless efforts to promote such a great event.

Not trying to be too glib about the subject, but many times the easiest way to obtain papers is to just buy papered swords. Otherwise, the process is what it is, and requires a measure of time, money, patience, inconvenience, and sometimes disappointment. Welcome to the world of Nihonto. It's not a "convenient" environment.

Al Bardi is promoting the show on his own, without the Florida Club. I received the letter as well and it's basically the formal announcement to the membership reaffirming what was said earlier this year. Al Bardi is going to promote it as an art and arms show which will include early firearms (early arms such as early percussion and lock types, not rim or centerfire). He's also promoting it as a public show which will be a very welcomed change. I think we can consider this a new show in the same basic time slot and location as the now defunct FTK show. Way to go Uncle Al!!

I should probably clarify that what I described as general "koshirae parts" meant parts such as metal kojiri, menuki, kashira, etc.. Another adhesives I've noted that was used to bond horn to wood and metal parts to wood which is lacquer (probably a raw lacquer) mixed with a fine agregate such as wood dust, stone powder, etc.. My implication was that rice glue isn't something I've seen used for your applicaiton, though it is used to bond the samegawa to the tsuka foundation and often times there is white paper used in conjunction with it to further reinforce the seams and add a white background behind the samegawa. I was once told by an Armenian fellow that a common construction adhesive that part of the world is egg whites mixed with pulverized gypsum. Don't know the validity of it, but it seems reasonable.