Spartancrest

Jake, I like the odd ones. Keeps us all guessing I wonder if some of these "off centre" ones are designed to act as a katana-kake, that is, a way for the sword to lay on a flat surface, when you don't have access to a stand, without rolling?

I look at it and the more I look the nakago-ana twists my brain. [in a good way] It looks off centre with the outside shape but then perfectly in-line with the hitsu Then if you try changing the nakago-ana to fit the outside design there is not enough of a hole to fit the tang? So what came first, the shape then the nakago-ana was deliberately put in out of alignment? Could the outside shape have been altered? This is a mystery piece to me - my brain hurts!

Not very good at spelling yourself "aint" you!

I fervently [look it up] hope that any Newbies give this thread a wide berth until the bickering stops. Once again . . . are we here to HELP or frighten people off? Personally I think encouraging new members should be the priority, if a "Newbie" [which is a condescending title to start with - as we know nothing about their backgrounds] wants information on a tsuba or anything else that we may feel is "junk" - - so what? Does it damage anyone reputation if you can simply say "Show us what you want to buy next time, so we can steer you away from making a bad purchase"? Just saying things like "You wasted your money" or "We only judge true works of art" helps no one. Please don't say it doesn't happen - it definitely does. [don't make me start compiling the list of names - it is all on record and very accessible ] [An Idle threat, I wouldn't waste my time - you know who you are ] PhoenixDude You do know M.J. is dead don't you?

Museums do this all the time - most people would have no clue what the facts are. I guess they have to put down what the donor tells them, it becomes a trail of "Chinese whispers" when it goes further back in time. I guess the next generation can look forward to having all sorts of misinformation thrown at them from AI - and who will know the difference?

The Walters Art Museum has some Chili pepper tsuba and fittings. [Chili peppers originated in Bolivia and were first cultivated in Mexico. After Columbus and the exchange of foods and cultures, many cultivars of chili pepper spread around the world, used for both food and traditional medicine. This led to a wide variety of cultivars, including the chinense species. Cultivars grown in North America and Europe are believed to all derive from Capsicum annuum, and have white, yellow, red or purple to black fruits. In 2019, the world's production of raw green chili peppers amounted to 38 million tons, with China producing half.] Source - Wikipedia Note. Chillies did not reach China and Japan till the late 16th century. https://art.thewalte...ating-chili-peppers/ https://art.thewalte...uka-with-red-pepper/ https://www.bonhams....912-circa-1870-1890/

Just to give some background to that "corroded" tsuba. SWORD GUARDS IN THE MUSEUM THE D. Z. NORTON COLLECTION The Bulletin of the Cleveland Museum of Art, Vol. 7, No. 4 (Apr., 1920), Author: J. A. M. pp. 45-51 "3. Solid iron guard with corroded surface. Two pieces of metal of different degrees of hardness were hammered together, and after having been folded and flattened out a sufficient number of times a round guard was cut out and hammered to the right thickness. It was then submitted to an acid bath. The softer metal naturally disintegrated faster than the harder under the action of the acid with the result that an inimitable surface was obtained, which when carefully colored and finished finally produced a guard of admirable texture. It takes on an ancient appearance without apparent imitation; therefore, it frankly appeals to one's artistic imagination. Some process was employed to soften the lines of the corrosion but so skillfully handled that no trace of it is detectable." The technique is reasonably common and intentional not an accident, but often not taken to such extremes. I agree that the type does not appeal to everyone [me included] but as you say horses for courses and it obviously appealed enough to end up in a museum collection. Which in itself is not saying much as like most museum collections they often include cast and substandard pieces. [yes even the very highest regarded museums! - just go and LOOK] I have no doubt this is true and you are quite correct in feeling this way, but some people crave the provenance of a piece even over the true value - why the previous ownership of an object makes the slightest difference eludes me but somehow it has become an important sales feature. Have you noticed the number of guards at auction being displayed next to a book image of what purports to be the same guard - but close up it isn't?

Hundreds of examples - the Ito thread cutting technique was very popular, probably because it was so time consuming to do. It also had the advantage of decorating both sides at the one time. The last example is what I call a cheat because the fine line starts at a larger opening than the thickness of the thread cut. Just think how small the hole had to be to start the cutting process and how many holes had to be drilled to make up some of the patterns. A good description is given by W. GOWLAND in 1915. METALS AND METAL- WORKING IN OLD Japan. by W. GOWLAND. REPRINTED FROM THE TRANSACTIONS OF THE Japan SOCIETY OF LONDON, Vol. XIII Tuesday, March 2, 1915, "From the twelfth to the fourteenth century the iron guard is still without ornament, except simple geometric perforations. From the sixteenth century onwards, this simple ornament gave place to intricate pierced patterns and richly engraved and inlaid designs. Many of these iron guards, especially of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, are marvels of skill and patient work. Forms of the greatest delicacy, often almost microscopic in their details, others with bold contours and sweeping curves worthy of the artist's brush, are alike carved with as much accuracy and freedom as if the material was plastic clay rather than solid iron. In some, the pierced cuts are so fine that they do not exceed 1/250 of an inch in width, and their sides are perfectly parallel. These were produced by a very laborious method of procedure. A minute hole was first drilled in the iron with a fine steel wire moistened with oil and powdered garnets or siliceous rock; the hole was then elongated into a slit by means of another fine steel wire used as a saw, also moistened with oil and the above powder. These cuts were further continued with flat wires, and were then reduced to the extreme degree of fineness required by hammering both sides of the metal until they were sufficiently closed. The sides of the cuts were kept parallel by rubbing them from time to time with flat wires of steel and grinding-powder."

Well back to the piece at hand - we are supposed to be here to help, not criticise peoples choices. [If any member can say with certainty that they never bought a low grade tsuba in their past then they either have too much money or are losing their memory JMHO.] Looking at the design [and it still has one] I would say the ito thread cuts are following a "Kakine" formula much like this pattern but obviously thinner lines. The KAKINE (垣根) design is much pared back but that is what I think it means, see this image borrowed from Glen Cordner's post Jan 21 2022 https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/38322-meaning-of-beam-on-tosogu/page/2/ A kakine motif has four angled sticks that form a box [or rhombus] with overhanging tips, Paris' example does not have the full box shape simply because a bit less than half the design would be under the seppa and not seen in any case. [Kakine signifies a sacred place or a water well] Condition wise compare this one: From the D.Z. Norton collection now in the Cleveland museum of Art - yes I am sure you could buy it from them for $20 [good luck with that!]

Somewhere near Norwich? What! That distance is just down the road for us Aussies [heck I live in the smallest state and we drive further than that to take our dog to the vet!]

I do have to sleep sometime! Hey Colin how close are you to Bristol? This Museum could do with some help https://collections....collections/?s=TSUBA especially with their shorthand descriptions [and maybe a tape measure!].

I have had a few tsuba coming from Hiroshima and more recently Fukushima - does customs get a Geiger counter out for inspections?

I hate to say it but some of the more modern copies are a far cry from the crude ones made in the 1950s and 60s for practice swords. But you can see the pattern has not changed very much just better quality and a bit more gold paint. still bad ones getting about of course https://www.jauce.com/auction/h1145055901 https://www.jauce.com/auction/f1114842948 Ebay https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/365048053993 expensive for paperweight! Is this the daisho you are looking at Colin? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/405135677910 US $1,299.99 that is an expensive learning experience!

I describe tsuba as sword ornaments and have no trouble with customs here in Australia. I would almost guarantee most customs people would have no idea what a "tsuba" was so I avoid using the word because they might want to find out! "essential parts of weapons" I guess that customs might think you are bringing in weapons in pieces to reassemble? I see people do that with gun parts. I suggest you change the description to something like "iron coaster" or "Chinese belt buckle" They were often misidentified that way in the past.

Hi Paris, I notice the "explorative" drill hole has started to darken up and gain some patina since Okan had it, we won't ever know why it was drilled but it will always be another intriguing mystery about this guard, the speed in which it has changed colour would suggest it was drilled not that long before Okan had it?

The ocean!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/355934072462 Tsuba have gone over to the Dark side!!!

Paris, personally I don't think the tsuba is cast[at least not in iron], the very fact that the rim was chiselled off would suggest it is not brittle cast iron. I don't know if it was ever worked out just what the metal it is made from is? We don't see any rust on it so is it iron/steel or is it a copper based alloy? If it is an alloy then yes it is likely cast at some point in the production and it would withstand the chisel cuts. Being cast in soft metal is a legitimate method of period production and does not mean it is fake. Could you run a magnet over the piece and see if it sticks?

I can do better than that - this guard was already discussed back in 2022 https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/40021-unusual-tanto-tsuba/

I think the two holes are where two Yoshiro 'Mon' may have fallen out - even melted out if indeed the tsuba was in a fire but then the ategane would have been gone too? The size is consistent - these examples are Outer diameter 1.7cm Thickness 0.4cm but could vary slightly. The design on the guard looks to be a string of old coins not 'mon' [I believe we have seen another tsuba very much like Paris' example but I can't put my hands on it yet.] It could have looked like this [I think very attractive?] Check this Marcus Sesko thread https://markussesko....invincibility-tsuba/

Not entirely sure this item fits in this thread - A kozuka converted to a kiseru. https://www.jauce.com/auction/b1147440022 fantastic workmanship

Squirrels in the grapes. This is a modern fake [shows how popular the design is] Walters Museum See SteveM reply Posted March 17, 2021

Looks good to me as well -

One other museum has some questions to answer. In 1907 the Metropolitan Museum of Art was gifted three tsuba from the Goda Masa Uji collection. Two of those guards caught my attention. Accession Number: 06.1265 & Accession Number: 06.1266 You can see from the images that both had ategane at the time they were given to the museum, however sometime before 1924 both of these guards had the ategane removed [or stolen?] Both guards remain on display in the museum to this day - but what happened to the ategane? If you read the rather heartfelt letter from Goda himself on why he gifted the guards, it is very sad that his trust in their care was so let down. "On July 29th in the 38th year of Meiji (1905), Prof. Bashford Dean, Curator of Arms and Armor of the New York Metropolitan Art Museum, together with Mr. Amagasa Isao, a student of law of the University of Kyoto, called at my residence in the latter city, and stated that he (Dean) had learned in Tokyo that I possessed a large collection of Japanese armor and arms and expressed his desire to be permitted to see them. I consented and thereupon brought out and exhibited to Prof. Dean various articles of armor, etc. Among the things shown were six tsuba made by Kaneiye. These he asked me to sell him, but I declined to do so. Then he requested me to sell him three of the number, but this also I declined doing. Subsequently he called twice upon me and again on the evening of the 20th of October, 1905, when he requested me to loan the three tsuba for a period of five years to be exhibited in the Museum for educational purposes. This, however, I also felt constrained to refuse, yet when I reflected over the persistent zeal exhibited I could but admire the same, and considering that the request was on behalf of an American institution, while unable to consent to receive any compensation, I determined to make an offering of the desired objects rather than exhibit them as requested, and I stated that such was my desire. To the inquiry thereupon made by Prof. Dean as to my motive in this act, I replied: That at the time of the Tokugawa Shogunate I was a military attendant and resided in Osaka at the Castle. When I was yet a child eight years of age Commodore Perry came to Uraga, Sagami, for the purpose of opening our ports to foreign trade and commerce. A promise to that effect having been obtained by him from the then government, from that time on until the present Meiji period our intercourse has spread far and wide with all foreign nations, and that our honored flag should float to-day over all the seas was largely due to the friendly offices of the American Republic. Again during the recent conflict between the Empire of Japan and that of Russia thanks to the warm and friendly attitude of the President of the United States in his successful action in putting an end to that deadly conflict by bringing about the Peace Conference at Portsmouth, with results yet to follow though still unknown I felt much gratitude for the many and valuable services rendered by America to my country. So therefore when Prof. Dean continued to express so great a desire for some of the objects in my treasured collection, I consented to part with the same and send them to the Art Museum of New York as an evidence of my warm personal regard for the American people. Upon this, my statement to Mr. Dean, he was and expressed himself to be extremely gratified, and said that upon his return to America he would bring the same to the knowledge of his Government and that upon receipt of the necessary notification to be sent me by the Governor of Kyoto after a request to that effect by the proper Japanese officials thereunto moved by a communication from the Embassy of the United States at Tokyo, I should forward the articles offered. This was entirely satisfactory to me. Meanwhile as I was growing old and at any time I might be overtaken by death, I had the promise of those of my household surviving me to execute and fulfill my undertaking to the letter. On the morning of 2Ist October, 1905, Prof. Dean left Kyoto and returned the following year to his country passing through India. I saw him off from the Kyoto station, bidding him farewell. On the 26th of January of this year (1907) I received a communication from Ambassador Wright offering kindly to transmit through his office to America the three Tsuba referred to herein." (Signed) GODA MASA UJI Samurai Masaouji Goda died in 1917