IanB

All, Since this thread has gone rather quiet, I am posting this, the first of two interesting items of a commemerative nature. This first one was a gift from a dealer in Japan and is something I really treasure. Obviously it involves reading the text, much of which is in a rather cursive hand, something that often defeats me. However, a Japanese friend gave me the gist of what it says and I hope he was correct. If he was, it is the only one of its type I have ever seen and is very touching. For those who do not read Japanese, you should be able to at least get the date and the nature of the contents of the package. Ian Bottomley

Piers, The bowl has in fact a small chip on the edge. Do I collect perfect, - no. I never blame the object for the abuse it has suffered at the hands of some idiot. Of course it's nice if something is perfect, but most of this kind of thing has now had a long life and is showing it. Also, in the neck of the woods I live in, such 'Treasures of the Orient' were somewhat rare until the internet opened up the world market - if you saw it you grabbed it. Now one can afford to be a bit more selective. Ian

Piers, It is about 5" across. Ian

Rather stupidly I forgot to attach the images to my post - senility beckons. Ian

All, Here is a little object I have owned for about 40 years. It has sat on various shelves around the house all that time, generally unlooked at because it had become part of the scenery. Having seen the images of Piers' tray / lid and the comment about the cost of lacquering the kamon, I was reminded of its existence. I acquired it because it was made for the Mori of Nagato, and I own an armour made for an official of that clan called Nakagawa Mochinori. An interesting feature is that the lacquer worker managed to paint the alternating kamon around the lid, but in trying to keep the same spacing around the bowl ran into the problem of it having a greater circumference. He solved this problem by including an extra 'three dots and a dog's bone' kamon - presumably because it was easier to paint. Ian Bottomley

All, I realise that this is stating the obvious, but we now face a considerable problem should we wish to send blades to Japan for polishing and shinsa. I suppose that we could arrange for a different mode of carriage for the outward journey but how would a sword be returned? This is all getting seriously out of hand. Ian Bottomley

Andi, Technically what we now regard as a wakizashi is an Edo concept. According to Dr. S. Alexander Takeuchi prior to that, the term was applied to all manner of short bladed weapons carried in the sash that went by names like koshigatana, uchigatana, tanto etc. In 1645 the Tokugawa Shogunate stipulated a maximum length of 1 shaku 8 sun, reducing it further in 1668 and limiting non-military to weapons of that size or less. From Meiji times wakizashi production does seem to be much reduced. I would suggest that was because a considerable proportion were made and carried by chonin, who were that point forbidden from carrying any kind of sword. Such swords as continued to be made were for the army or police and hence were katana. Ian Bottomley

All, I did acquire a good nagamaki for the Royal Armouries Museum quite a few years ago and it is still on display with its koshirae. That had a magnificent iron tsuba, about large katana size, of octagonal outline with the mimi hammered up in an exaggerated way in the centre of each edge - rather Miochin looking if you know what I mean. As I remember it, the nakago, approaching three feet long, was virtually the same as on a naginata. The blade had a hammered-out signature that started 'Taima ...' but was more ichimonji in style with tight small choji hamon. The koshirae was interesting, being black lacquered with a bright red band spiralling from the hirumaki to the end of the saya. Since early nagamaki were often bound spirally with a strip of leather and then lacquered, I took the view this was in imitation of that style. Ian

All, The two small tsuba published by Dirk are of the type one sees on later naginata - where the tsuba is only slightly larger that the shaft and the seppa are only marginally smaller. These weapons were usually provided with a saya having a mouth that is extended to fit over the tsuba and first inch or so of the shaft - presumably to stop rain entering. Older naginata are usually depicted with a somewhat larger tsuba, sometimes mokko shape. I have one, with a Momoyama or very early Edo koshirae (distinquished by the lack of metallic mounts other than an extended copper collar at the top of the shaft). This has an oval copper tsuba that was obviously originally on a sword since it has an hitsu ana. Ian Bottomley

Piers, I think it more likely that the prolonged 'prow' on these helmets was designed to protect the face from cuts rather that arrows. Arrows do not have sufficient energy to pierce plate armour. If you look at the underside of these helmets, there is a separate plate that rests against the forehead, the 'prow' jutting quite a long way forward. They were originally fitted with a shikoro of plates, similar to those on later helmets, but laced together with internal leather thongs. Together with the do, and its long plate skirt, shoulder guards etc, it amountend to a very efficient armour for use on foot. Ian

Piers, Being a computer illiterate (but having taught computing for 10 years starting in the days of punched cards) I have not mastered putting kanji on this site. So, I will fall back on Nelson's dictionary. The shokaku tsuki is written: Sho is char No. 1638 meaning 'brunt, opposition' kaku is char No 4301 meaning 'angle, corner, square' tsuki is char No 363. Ian

Piers, Yes it is a shokaku tsuki hachi (battering -ram helmet) as I suspected. The originals were all dug out of burial mounds so the question is - is it real or a copy? My guess is the latter, judging by the state of the metal. I suspect the corroded holes at the back were to give it a bit of authenticity. The four holes on top were for a couple of prongs to which were tied pheasant feathers. I thing the tray is a lid off a very posh box, and quite an old one at that. I note what looks like the 7 - 9 - 7 kiri mon as well as the kiku mon. Are we looking here at the Toyotomi? On the armours of that period (circa 1600) the kamon are done in gold nashiji on the black lacquer with a gold line border and details added after. Annoyingly, I have deleted and image I had of such both these kamon lacquered side by side on the fukigayeshi of an armour of Hideyoshi's that is now in Paris. As for how much you paid - I prefer not to think about it. Ian

Piers, Please supply an image of the helmet. It sounds like a shokaku tsuki hachi of the type worn with tanko. I remember seeing a couple, probably made in the 1920's or 30's, for use in 'historic pageants'. As for the tray, Are you sure it wasn't just the lid of a large box? Ian

In fact the picture in question is here (look to the left). Ian Bottomley

Ford, I agree the difference in technique is significant and that the engraving of a signature on a kinko tsuba or the base of a fuchi could be achieved with a delicacy. I was amazed, when watching a signature being done on a sword tang, the size of the punch being used. It was quite a hefty hunk of metal and although the smith had marked out the tang in advance, the punch itself all but obscured his view of his layout. Ian

All, Here is a new thread which may have the effect of prodding a hornet's nest with a stick - but which in reality is designed to provoke us to step back and consider what appears to be an accepted fact. In the recent thread about an Omori tsuba there comes across the general opinion that the signatures of an artist on different pieces of work should correspond exactly (although it is accepted that a person's signature may change over his lifetime). The placing, length and angle of virtually every stroke of that tsuba's signature has been taken as evidence that the tsuba is, or is not, by Omori Teruhide. I know that I never sign twice in the same way. Did swordsmiths and other artists take pains to ensure their signatures were virtually identical? In an attempt to determine if this is true or not, I have spent a little time looking at two signatures by the same swordsmith. Far from being the same, they differ considerably. To avoid the effects of scale, the length of the characters of the two signatures were measured (as a fraction of the total length from top to bottom of the name). In the first signature the top character is approximately 0.6, the second being 0.3 - the gap between them being 0.1. For the second signature these figures are 0.7, 0.3 with virtually no gap, the characters all but overlapping. There are other differences but even this simple observation suggests that precision was not considered that important. Ian Bottomley

As promised, here are a couple of shots of my hilt cover both on and off a rather long tsuka. It does fit but only just. I seriously doubt it would be possible to get anything like a separate sleeve under it. Ian

Piers, Yup, like that. Mine has a kamon in red lacquer on it, but is much narrower in the parallel part. I doubt if there would have been room for an inner-tube. I will dig it out and post a picture. Ian

Piers, Same kamon - what a coincidence. Nice tsuka covers, the brown leather ones are WWII I think. I have a very odd one for a katana that has a tubular bit for the tsuka and then a conical part for the tsuba. Interestingly it leaves the kashira exposed. Ian

Brian, Henry, No don't just treat it with contempt, although you would be acting appropriately in doing so. I am going to write to the so-called 'eBay' team and point out the similarity between the action of these companies and their own unilateral and cowardly behaviour after the Watchdog team pulled a rigged stunt to justify their rather squalid programme. We shall see if they respond. Ian Bottomley

On the theme of being helpful, on one occasion I travelled to Tottori to visit the Watanabe Museum there (I keep banging on about it because it displays one of the biggest collections of arms and armour in Japan - on display were 480 armours, swords, yari, guns, jingasa, uma jirushi, costumes and probably a definitive collection of Edo jidai oyster forks but I seem to have missed them). Anyway, back to the tale - needing to take a gift of the local delicacy back to the elderly gent I was staying with in Tokyo, I enquired of a lady at a stall by the station and was told it was pickled mushrooms (would you believe). On ordering 3 boxes, she pointed out that Mrs Fujiwhatevers across the way were fresher then hers. On asking Mrs Fujiwhatever, she sorted out the three boxes with the most recent dates on. Now being a dumb gaijin who was supposed to be unable to read dates, I was seriously impressed by that little kindness. Ian Bottomley

Piers, I just use a drop of washing-up liquid as the detergent. The ammonia is of course alkaline. Start with a very weak mixture, just in case, and be patient. If its not working add a drop more ammonia and try again. Wow!!! - now they are a pair of sleeves. I have seen similar items before but never owned any. The frills are of course derived from the European ruffs of the 17th century and you sometimes see them around the collars of posh armours and elsewhere. Just what these might be used for I do not know. I've seen similar described as sleeves for archery. Does the text explain their purpose? Ian

Piers, Like most of this type of kanamono, those on your box will be gilded copper. I have seem a film of similar pieces being re-gilded for a shrine. It involved coating the cleaned copper with a mercury salt, to deposit a thin film of mercury on the surface, them applying gold leaf. After heating to drive off the mercury, the gold is then burnished (incredibly dangerous of course because of the mercury vapour). They can be cleaned by using solutions of chelating agents, but I always use ammonia since its more easily obtained. Use a very weak solution, to which is added a drop if detergent. Just wipe the kanamono with a cotton bud moistened with the solution and it will take off the tarnish reasonably easily, even when it is green with corrosion. It appears that the coating of gold is sometimes a bit porous and the copper corrosion products bleed up through the holes and spread onto the surface. It is essential to get rid of all of the ammonia afterwards with repeated applications of plain water. It is also important to make sure you don't get the solution on the lacquer. Works for me. Ian Bottomley

As Peter F. remarked, katana do exist but shorter weapons are far far more common. What I tried to say is that these were weapons issued to common soldiers, pressed into service during times of war, who had no equipment of their own. Since much of the fighting was at close-quarters, a shorter sword was probably far more useful (if I have remembered correctly, the tameshigiri officials came to the conclusion that the most effective swords at cutting were about 24" long). Also bear in mind that the sword issued to these troops was always the secondary weapon and that they were issued with guns, spears or bows as their primary weapon. Ian

Peter, The term means a 'lent sword' - that is one issued from stores to low ranking soldiers recruited from the non-bushi classes. In the same way they were issued with a 'lent armour' having a very simple do, pair of sleeves and either a zunari kabuto or more often a simple conical jingasa. I have several reasons for suggesting that this is what these swords were. 1. Almost all of these swords are very cheaply made up from old scabbards, and simple (or even crude) iron mounts. Yours is somewhat better in that the tsuka is at least covered with same. Most have a hilt made from a short section of scabbard. Most or even all of the bindings are from strips of folded hemp cloth, generally dyed green originally, with menuki of iron washers. The whole assemby suggest cheap but sturdy. 2. I had a book 'Stories of common soldiers' originally published in the early 17th century that showed a couple of spearmen. They had swords shown with the simple spiral binding, as did all the footsoldiers in the book. One of them had two looted swords tied to his spear with carefully depicted regular bindings. It was clear that the artist was indicating the the soldiers were wearing their issued swords. I regret I cannot reproduce the image. My copy of this book has dissapeared. I suspect it is in the Royal armouries somewhere but attempts to find it have failed. However, if you have a copy of my book 'The arms and armour of the samurai' it is on page 147. 3. Many of the blades have defects or are from cut down katana. In other words good enough for the rank and file. 4. Finally there are relatively common - as would be expected if most castles had store rooms with stocks of such material. The armours are less common for the simple reason that a lot were weighed in for scrap. The rebellion of the Satsuma samurai involved about 12000 men, almost all of which were of that class and hence would have proper swords.Wikipedia states that there were about 1200 labourers. These it could be argued could have needed swords but since the rebels had already raided several arsenals, primarily to obtain guns, it suggest they wouldn't need to use swords such as these. I may be wrong, but this is the conclusion I have come to. Ian Bottomley