IanB

Piers, My first thought was to agree with you that they are gyoyo, but I think that is what they ended up as. That with the rivets could have been destined as a fukigayeshi, or as Ron suggests,cheekpieces for a hitai ate. The bumps might be a kamon or, fact that there is a hole in the base for a chin tie might substantiates the latter idea. But, no rivets or hole in the base in the other. The rivets cannot be a repair since they do not now attach anything. Good one Ian Bottomley

John, Note that in this case the text is done in gin zogan and the plant motif in kin and gin zogan. George, I too have struggled with early 17th C 'Secretary Hand' and similar scripts so I know just exactly what you mean. Makes Champollion's work with Egyptian hieroglyphs look like child's play . Ian B

Bazza, Having worked in the museum world I have come across such shipping companies many many times. Objects were being loaned and returned on an almost weekly basis. These guys are fantastic, moving fragile and delicate art works around the world without any problems. Their service includes making specialized crates for the objects, handling all the clearance and shipping documentation and packing the objects in your presence. Although I never had to deal with that side of it, I would guess the downside would be the cost for such a service. Having said that, a sword blade is relatively simple object to pack and move. and It may be they could be persuaded to perform this function. Ian Bottomley

Keith, Obviously the decoration above and below the seppa dai are plant forms - orchids maybe? Ian

Curgan, I think the side with the capitals is rather more than just groups of random lettering. If you look, the letters form sound groups: NA NE NI NOE-TA TE TI TO-MA ME MI etc. The combined OE is apparently a 'grapheme' which Wikipedia says was used in English and French and in modern phonetics to represent a kind of 'ur' sound as in the French for sister 'soeur'. This suggests to me the text has been copied from some European lexicon that listed Japanese sounds. Possibly Dutch but it could have been compiled by the English. If you have a table of hiragana you will find them listed in the same sort of groupings. The cursive on the back seems less well copied. Presumably because the decorator was working from a European document in some kind of running hand and he couldn't make out individual letters. Whatever, a very interesting item. Thank you for showing it. Ian Bottomley

I blush with shame to admit that I have 'pinged' tsuba in the past. This despite the fact that I wouldn't really know a good tsuba from the bottom cut out of a bucket. It just gives you time to race through one's mind for suitable things to mutter when asked what your opinion is on somebody's treasure. Having said that, the equivalent of 'rim pinging' was in fact a profession on the railways in the UK. These guys were known as Wheel Tappers and used to march along a stationary train and tap each wheel rim with a special long-handled hammer. The resulting noise told the tapper whether or not the cast steel wheels had developed cracks and were dangerous. Ian Bottomley

There used to be quite a selection of these weapons in the now-defunct Arashiyama Museum of Kyoto, at least one of which had a blade inside as Clive describes. Even more cunning was a variation that looked like a length of steel scaffold pole on the end of a wooden shaft. Inside the iron tube was a weight attached to the base of the tube inside by a long chain. By swinging the tube and then stopping it suddenly, the weight flew out of the end, hopefully hitting the opponent. Like Clive, I suspect many of these weapons are relatively late and more for show than utility. Don't forget that many depictions of Benkei show him armed with one of these clubs of Herculean proportions, linking those who carried them to the warrior monk tradition. Interestingly, the situation in Europe required the more belligerent clergy use similar weapon. Bishop Odo is shown carrying a mace on the Bayeux Tapestry. It would seem that it was OK for a cleric to smash someone's skull as long as they didn't spill blood. Even more comic was a Chinese mace I once saw that had the character for 'long-life' in high relief on the ball-shaped end. No doubt it would leave that sentiment imprinted on the crushed skull of the victem. Ian Bottomley

Jean, The Musée de l'Armée also has its treasures. Two of the Japanese armours on display were a gift to King Henri IV by Tokugawa Ieyasu. They were brought to Europe by Hasekura Tsunenaga and left with the Spanish court who then sent them onward to France. They became part of the French Royal Collection and appear in the first full inventory, together with swords and staff weapons, taken in 1729. Two further armours, given to Stadholder Mauritz that had been in Huis den Bosch in the Hague, were taken back to France in the 1790's by Revolutionary Forces, are also in Musée de l'Armée. One of these occurs in a painting by Jacob van Campen in the Hague. Paris has in fact the greatest concentration of these Momoyama / early Edo gift armours in Europe. They were not specifically made for gifts as has been previously supposed, but were captured war booty. One in the Royal Armouries, on display in the Tower of London, was made for Takeda Katsuyori and another for a member of the Shimazu family about 1560 -80. At least two of the Paris armours were made for the Toyotomi family, possibly for Hideyoshi himself. Another may have been made for a member of the Mori family. The fourth is composite but has some interesting bits in it. Ian

Jean, Carlo, When I was last in Firenze they were installing lights in the cases of the Japanese gallery so most of the armours were out. I spent two wonderful mornings with Civita who was very knowledgeable and enthusiastic. Sadly I didn't get a real look at the swords, but I did notice some fine koshirae. One item that did impress me was a tachi-kake - to take FIVE tachi in a row. They even had five ito maki no tachi to occupy it. I think it fair to say Stibbert did better with his Oriental collecting than he did with the European material. By the time he started collecting the latter, much of the best material that survives had already been acquired by others. It is sad that the collection isn't more widely know to the general public - it rarely even gets a mention in guide books. Ian

Jean, Many of the items, especially the helmets and armours, are well illustrated and described on their website. Yes, it is sad that visitors are swept through by a guide since there is so much to see. They have also published extensive catalogues of much of the collection. What is saddest of all is that on Stibbert's death, the entire collection was bequeathed to the British Government but they declined the offer and it remained in Firenze. At least the Japanese collection has been kept in the right conditions of very low light and relatively stable humidity / temperatures since it was collected in the late 19th century. Virtually all of the armour is in the same superb condition in which it left Japan. In contrast the Oriental Museum in Venice throw open the shutters and windows every morning so that the light levels reach aggressive values. The result is that much of the armour there is now un-displayable. In bottomley

Piers, As always a revelation for which you deserve our heartiest thanks. Isn't it sad how all of the minor accessories have either just been discarded or ignored? Once you move a couple of generations away from their period of use, they then become objects of mystery. I was once given a short woolen cloth tube that fits around the saya of a sword and the kurigata. It is obviously to stop your daito scratching the saya of the shoto - probably almost universal when swords were worn but I suspect quite rare nowadays. Same with guns and gunnery - vital odds and ends that gunners carried to make shooting easier are now all but forgotten. Some years ago a guy turned up at work with some musket balls found on a Civil War battle site. All had a flattened region around the equator, so to speak, that looked as if it had been done by hammering or cutting with a knife. They were obviously made by gunners to cope with the situation when fouling of the barrel would have prevented the loading of a regular ball. You can't stop to de-coke in the middle of a battle so you carried a few 'specials' in your pocket that would go down the barrel if positioned correctly at the muzzle. They would have been disastrous for accuracy, but at least they would keep you shooting that bit longer. Ian Bottomley

Andrew, The seller is referring to the hilt. If you look carefully you will see it is lacquered under the binding. It is in fact a cut of length of old scabbard. The bindings too are in the usual style, made of cotton tape or even folded fabric, with the usual washers in place of menuki. Ian Bottomley

Ron, Piers, It gets more ecclesiastic than that. In the days when they found that corned powder, as opposed to a simple mixture of ingredients, was better, they used urine to moisten the mixture before pressing it into a cake. It was considered that the urine of a Bishop, particularly a wine-drinking one (and how many were not), was by far the best. As a result the clergy ran a nice little number in selling their produce to the powder mills. What a nice set of moulds Piers - and a Maeda hyago. Lucky you. Ian

Ron, I was trying to be politic when I mentioned 'long-range shooting' I fully agree, the windage and bore of most smoothbores would make the idea of a ladder back-sight rather ludicrous, but they made them and apparently provided for their use with most back-sights. I once journeyed for hours to a remote museum in Japan to see an exhibition of early secret scrolls of schools of gunnery. I ended up looking at about 8 or so scrolls covered with yards and yards of squiggly script that meant absolutely nothing to me. Only one scroll had a couple of illustrations including one of a worthy shooting butterflies. I remember thinking - Yeh, in your dreams. This matter of accuracy has been a worry to shooters for years. Early German tests, carried out in Mainz in 1547 in the presence of the local Archbishop no less, attempted to prove that rifled guns were better than smoothbores because of demons. One group thought the demons could not sit astride a spinning sphere and deflect it from its course. The counter argument was that they could indeed ride the ball and guide it to its target to do its hellish work. Apparently they tried comparing shots with ordinary ball against silver ones carved with crucifixes but the results were inconclusive since the carving introduced instability. Guess we will never know . Ian B.

Ron et al, I concur about the need for the bulbous muzzle to lift the fore-sight. For years I was mystified about the back-sights on Japanese guns. They always struck me as being over elaborate with holes, slots and whatever running through them. Then I went to the Tokugawa Art Museum in Nagoya and found the answer - they were to take a fully adjustable ladder-backsights! In their catalogue they illustrate some that fit into a transverse hole through the sight block. I suspect those sights with L shaped slots took leaf-sights of different sizes - although I have never seen any. It is generally reckoned that the India Pattern musket was the most accurate of the British military smoothbore flintlocks with an effective range of about 170 yards. The idea of a smoothbore matchlock needing a ladder-sight seems to be pushing it a bit but they obviously used them. Since some also have adjustable trigger pulls, I wonder if they might be used for target shooting at longer ranges. Ian Bottomley

Having just caught up with this thread so I hope you will permit a few comments on what was being discussed a couple of pages back. Firstly the conversion of matchlocks. My dear old friend Dr. W. Galeno had at one time a Japanese gun fitted with a Snider breech and an iron lock - thus it was a single shot breech loader. Whether or not this had started life as a Bizen matchlock is open to question. I confess I didn't take too much notice of it at the time. The butt was definitely in the matchlock tradition, but in its final configuration was only half-stocked. I'm afraid my memory of the barrel is vague but it was definitely round and I think it had the usual bulbous muzzle. It could have been a conversion but on balance I suspect it wasn't. Ian Bottomley

Morita San, As has been said, there is no proper term in English. I suppose the nearest I can come up with is GADROONED - which means something carved or shaped with a row of rounded forms. Ian Bottomley

Justin, I think you will find the 'war fan' is far younger than either of us. There was a spate of these about a year or so ago. Ian Bottomley

Good Morning, Your straight yari looks wonderful - good length of shaft, good looking blade and the original scabbard. What more could you ask for? I suspect that like many, the jumonji yari is cut down. A lot of these were mounted on extra-long shafts to carry at the head of daimyo processions with heraldic scabbards and proved to be too long for the tourists to bring them home. Your helmet by the way is Persian and appears to be of nice quality. You can distinguish them from Indian ones by the fact that the nasal is held in position by a thumbscrew. Indian ones have a loop attached to the socket so that it can be hooked in the upper position. Ian Bottomley

Piers, Yes it is a superb example, lacking only a slightly bulbous butt-cap. I think I am correct in saying it was exhibited at the Great Exhibition of 1851 and was purchased, with a mass of other stuff, for the Tower collection when the Crystal Palace was finally closed. It even retains its sling of green velvet and gold braid and has probably never been shot. The koftgari work all over everything is very similar to that done in Lahore - dense masses of flowers and foliage that cover the iron almost entirely. I said in my last post that there is probably much we don't know. Note how long the stock is - and some others from the same area are even more attenuated. You didn't snuggle this against your shoulder but either tucked it under your armpit or rested it on your shoulder. If you examine early depictions of people using guns you find all manner of ways of holding and shooting them. A lot of early wheel lock pistols were held with all the fingers over the top of the butt and the trigger pulled with the thumb. Ian

Ron, Piers, I suspect there are many things we do not really know about these early form of guns. As for the tubular object on the Indore gun, it is probably for a pricker of some form, but there just isn't any sign of one. It may of course have been entirely separate and is now lost. I append a picture of a Gwalior gun with a pricker, but absolutely nowhere to park it. I assume it just dangled. AS for the through hole in the stock of my Sakai gun, I can see no purpose in threading the match through it - the one diagonal hole is more than enough. However, I note a cord through a similarly placed hole in the stock of your Kumamoto gun Piers. Is it possible that the Sakai through-hole is for a similar cord? Ian

Eric, Wow that is an oddball. You certainly find them. My first thought was that it looks as if it has been made from a European bayonet of some type. I am guessing a length of about 20" or so? You have me there. Ian Bottomley

All, I have just had a look at the chrysanthemum hole on my Sakai gun and it is drilled all the way through, being as near as enough the same diameter as the diagonal match tunnel. There is therefore nowhere on this gun to stub out the match. It would be possible to thread a length of match through the tunnel and then through the hole to the right side of the stock. By chance I am preparing a talk on Indian matchlock guns and some of those from Oude (now Uttar Pradesh) have a similar medallions on the sides of the stock. One, usually on the right, having a blind hole in the centre. On at least one of these guns, there is red velvet under the pierced part of the medallions, but the central hole itself is clear. Some guns from the same region have a blind hole drilled into the wood of the sloping face behind the breech or occasionally under the stock near the breech. I also append a picture of a gun from Indore with what is normally regarded as a holder for a pricker, for clearing the vent, attached to the right side of the stock. In this case, there is no pricker nor any reasonable place to attach one. I'm not saying it is, but it might be a match snuffer. Ian Bottomley

Andrew, There is quite a lot to be deduced from the pictures of your sword. At least two points strike me as having the potential for a bit of correspondence. Firstly the hilt, tsuka, is one of those which traditionally have been called 'Satsuma Rebellion' but which I believe were made for issue to low-ranking soldiers. You will find an old thread on this topic somewhere. At the time it was running I couldn't find the image which lends some credence to my belief. I've found it now so I will add the image in due course. Secondly the tsuba appears to have broken clean across. This suggests it was cast iron. Ordinary iron would have bent if subject to such a blow and hardened steel would have been difficult to snap in that way. Was it a more modern piece made to deceive or were some tsuba cast, even in the Edo period? Again the subject for a bit of controversy. Finally the blade: As you say unsigned and in the kind of state where it is difficult to reach solid conclusions about. The shape of the tang suggests it might be Bizen and that the lower hole has been drilled and left a burr standing up on one side. Other than that I leave it to others to comment. Ian Bottomley

Joe, No not British. The shell guard is decorated with an eagle holding a sceptre in its left leg. There is an S in the monogram but the image is too blurred to make out any more. Jason, It isn't surprising that similar swords were being adopted around the world for the simple reason that almost all were being made by the same people from fairly standard components. The only specific items for an individual customer would generally be the pommel and shell guard, and possibly any etching on the blade. All the rest of the bits would be more or less standard from stock. Ian Bottomley