DirkO

I'm waiting for the holidays - Lulu usually gives better discount codes then and then I can order a few - but this one will be definitely on the list! Keep up the good work Markus - Lord knows you're not in it for the money - the effort you put in, isn't reflected in the price nor in the amount of books sold - pity actually.

For more about mekugi-ana styles, please also read Markus's blog: http://markussesko.wordpress.com/2013/09/14/the-secret-world-of-mekugi-ana/

I actually sent them a mail about this book lot - it puzzles me that they didn't split it up - I think you'd have more buyers for a number of smaller lots instead of this huge library...

Isn't this sayagaki by Sato Kanzan? The writing of Tanobe-san is quite different?

Hi Gabriel, Here's a little line up - all the reference examples are papered and from 1911->1914 (so roughly the same era). Please look closely and you'll find a lot of differences in the strokes. The yasurime also don't look fine enough and quite superficial.

Sure, but I think it has reappeared: http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d144131128 Once again, a huge amount of bids, but nowhere near the old price....

not the first time something gets pulled from Yahoo Auctions only to reappear a few days later - also when they had a private offline bid, they can stop and cancel the auction as well - although some doubts were expressed on this forum, a lot of people were willing to gamble a lot of money on this one

could be Hon'Ami Chikayoshi from the Kozan lineage - Kanji seem to match.

It's a pity that none of the normal Proxies (YAC,...) don't want to deal with nihonto, because sometimes something really worthwhile pops up. http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r105221663 more pics here: http://hpcgi3.nifty.com/bugu/view126.cgi The end price won't be for the faint hearted....

Actually not a bad idea to try and do this using this very forum - if we could get a decent sample of verified polishes (so from togishi from either Hon'ami or Fujishiro tradition,...) and their nagashi, we could try. All we would need are the pics of the nagashi, who polished it, what tradition the polisher was trained in, and when it was polished. I know some people don't like to make pics of their collection public, but it's just the nagashi we would need. Maybe a nice idea for Brian to conjur up something?

George, I think you're right when you say that most probably very few of those original polishes will remain. I always heard that a good polish will last a 100 years, obviously there are exceptions and known examples of older polishes, but I think this to be correct for the majority of the polishes. Seeing the Kiya were apparently more low key than the Hon'ami, this also doesn't help any documentation. It would for instance already help a lot if we knew the nagashi-scheme they use. We know a little bit about that for the Hon'ami and Fujishiro trained polishers, but even that knowledge is sparse and far from being conclusive...

Here’s what Junji Homma had to say about the Kiya family – extract from the accompagnying booklet to Kiya Oshigata (comparable to the Kanzan Oshigata Scrolls in contents – all full length oshigata): “The Honami family who had served successively under the Tokugawa Shogunate Government for three hundred years are more or less familiar to everyone who is connected with the world of the Japanese Sword. The Kiya family, however, who had also server under the Tokugawa Governement during the same period of three hundred years are almost unknown even to scholars and experts of the Japanese swords. It is assumed that the reason for this is that the two families acted in opposite fashion, i.e. Honami took an ostentatious position of being the only official connoisseurs while the Kiya family played a quiet role of polishing blades. The Honami family were consequently able to establish their prestigious reputation. /-… bit specifically about the Kiya Oshigata… there were only 3 remaining copies… Junji Homma studied them and did a limited reprint (300 copies) … He compares them to the Kotoku Oshigata, and judges the Kiya Oshigata to be superior in realism whereas the Kotoku Oshigata are superior in intensity. If you want the whole text, buy the Kiya Oshigata, like I did …-/ Genealogy ... It is described in the “Kiya Kafu” written by Hayashi Razan in the 19th year of Kaneie (1642) by order of Kiya Mitsuyasu, that the Kiya family date back to Sawada Kunihiro who had served the ex-Emperor Gotoba (1180-1239) as a sword polisher. He lived in Kyoto at the time when the ex-Emperor had built up a system of swordsmiths who were engaged to work for him on a monthly basis (“Bankaji”). According to this reference, the descendants of Swada Kunihiro succeeded to his occupation from generation to generation. The eighth descendant, Sawada Sukeyasu, lived in Oshu district and was active as a polisherand connoisseur of great ability, to such an extent that he left his writings of two scrolls regarding connoisseurship resulting from his studies under Rev. Utsunomiya Mikawa who had served under Ashikaga Yoshimitsu. His grandson, Jotan, was also a great man who wrote on the subject. Jotan’s son was Jocho, whose son was Mitsuyasu. He was the one who asked Hayashi Razan to write the Kiya genealogy which officially documented the fame and honor of his family. However the name of Mitsuyasu is not found in other references. It is stated in an archive written by Mokuan Yusei in the 10th year of Kanbun (1670) that Jotan had 2 sons, Yasutada and Yasufusa. Another archive which seems to have been writtenduring the Genroku and Kyoho era (1688-1735) indicates that Jotan had 11 children including the already mentioned 2 sons Yasutada and Yasufusa. Conceivably, it is possible that Mitsuyasu may be one of these two or one of their brothers. The descendants of Yasutada and Yasufusa became the two main lines of the Kiya family. Each family served successively under the Tokugawa Shogunate and received a yearly allowance of 100 bags of rice from the Government. Some of those whose Oshigata drawings are included in the Kiya Oshigata are listed in the line of Kiya Yasufusa: Jotan-Yasufusa-Yasuhisa-Yasunao-Yasunaga-Jozo-… Other Oshigata-makers such as Yasuteru and Yashuhideare thought to have come from the line of Kiya Yasutada. Sumino Masatsugu, one of the Oshigata-makers, seems to have been related to the Kiya, as there lived in Edo a polisher called “Edo Kiya, Sumino Jugen” whose wife came from the Kiya. Therefore, it is considered possibly that Sumino Masatsugu may be this same person. This should be further studied in the future. Important Person of the Kiya Family It is thought that Jotan and Jocho performed important and remarkable roles in bringing about the development and prosperity of the Kiya family, and in addition to these Yasufusa was a distinguished person. What follows is a short history of these 3: Jotan (Hisamoto): He was born in Owari province and popularly called Katsuhachiro or Shohachiro. His first given name was Hisamoto, Jotan being his second given name taken after he became a priest. While Hisamoto was a sword-polisher, he left a distinguished list of services in battles while serving under Oda Nobunaga. Not only a brave warrior, he was a philosopher of Confucianism and also a man of ability in administrative affairs. Nobunaga trusted him greatly and finally promoted him to Administrative Assistant to Nobutada, the heir of Nobunaga. After the fall of the Oda family, he became a priest, naming himself “Jotan”, and spent a retiree’s life at Kiyosu in Owari Province. With the coming of the days of Hideyoshi, Hideyoshi who had served under Hisamoto wanted to have Hisamoto serve under him, but Hisamoto refused. When Hisamoto was compelled to appear before Hideyoshi, he thought that he would be punished with death and so asked his relative, Dokyu, to take care of his three children, amongst whom was Jocho. To the contrary, however, Hideyoshi did not force him to serve but gave him a fief of 50 koku and a house. In his later days, he moved to Kyoto where he died on the 22nd of May in the 14th year of Keicho (1609) at the age of 65. Jocho: He was born in Gifu province as the first son and heir of Hisamoto(Jotan) and popularly called Chojuro and later Katsuzaemon. Jocho (whose name can also be read Tsunenaga) was his second name after he became a priest. Oda Nobunaga presented a crane in celebration of the birth of Jocho, who was very much loved by Nobunaga. When Jocho was received in audience by Hideyoshi at the the age of 14, Hideyoshi was extremely surprised by the depth and breadth of the Jocho’s knowledge of the Japanese sword and his fine memory, with which he made clear and eloquent replies to Hideyoshi. In the 13th year of Keicho (1608) Tokugawa Hidetada (the 2nd Shogun) gave him a yearly allowance of 200 bags of rice, that was passed on to succeeding generations of his descendants. He lived usually in Kyoto, and his two sons, Yasutada and Yasufusa, server under the Tokugawa government in yearly turns. There’s an interesting episode which shows his connoisseurship. One day, early in the Kaneie era, Jocho accompagnied by his son, Yasutada, was received in audience by Hidetada. He was shown 10 blades as a kantei contest. 8 of them were judged correctly by him and his son. It’s interesting to know that kantei contests were already held at that time at Edo Castle. In the meantime Oda Joshin (a son of Nobunaga) was still staying in Kyoto and Jocho presented to him 20 koku of rice and some fodder for 2 horses, thus continuing to show his thoughtfulness. Jocho died at his house in Kyoto on the 15th of September in the 4th year of Shoho (1647). He left 11 children. Yasufusa: He was born as the 2nd son of Jocho and was popularly called Hachirobei. Sufficient reference materials concerning his brother Yasutada have not been found to enable of study of the line of Yasutada. Furthermore, Yasufusa rearranged the graveyard of the Sawada, located in Kyoto, and erected gravestones for Jotan and Jocho. It is considered therefore that Yasufusa’s line became the main line of the Kiya family. As mentioned previously, one might think that Mitsuyasu, who had requested Hayashi Razan to write the Kiya Genealogy, was the same person as Yasufusa, and this is still being studied. Like both his grandfather and father, he was a student of Confucianism and acted as his daughter’s teacher on this subject. The daughter was born in a house located in Shijo in Kyoto, and it is therefore thought that the house was his residence. He died on the 22st of February in the 19 year of Enpo (1681) and his heir was Yasuhisa (Joon).”

:D

当麻 本阿弥文三郎 磨上 之 Thanks Thomas - like I said, it will become easier as I progress - but I'm learning a lot of kanji along the way!

Thanks Dick! Kicking myself that I didn't find that one myself Any takers for the rest of the translation?

Hi, I'm working on an index for one of the NBTHK branch books, and although work is slowly but surely progressing this entry has me stumped: It's a Kinzôgan-mei (金象嵌銘) on a Juyo-Bijutsuhin (重要美術品) I have the large part of the date - but can't make out 1 kanji: A day in the eleventh year of Tensho (1583) 天正十一?月日 As to the real kinzogan mei - haven't got a clue for this one Also the parts in comment confuse me. The more I'll translate, the easier it will become, but this one is non-standard to say the least :-)

Is that the famous and rare dai-san-sho ?

Here's the direct link: http://www.anticahistorica.eu/dl/anticahistorica_catalogue.pdf

Hi, While there's a lot of info out there about the Hon'ami and Fujishiro families (probably because they're still active) - I can find very little about the Takeya and Kiya families, although the NBTHK named their top polishing prizes after them. Does anyone out there have more info on these two families? As far as I know, they both stopped working in 1876 - due to Haitōrei. Fujishiro is a relatively new school so from Muromachi untill Haitōrei you had 3 main families, Hon'ami, Takeya and Kiya. Kiya was the polishing family that worked closely with the Tokugawa shogunate, so I expect that there would be some info out there, but I'm unable to find it. Their lineage before the 16th century is doubted, but from Tsunenaga on, it seems to be documented. I've found this small essay, which seems to hold some basic information, but I'm unable to translate it coherently - maybe some of our more fluent Japanese speaking members might be able to help out? http://www.mokuzai-tonya.jp/05bunen/zuisou/2006/02nihontou26.html

Saw this for sale and alerted the seller of this thread: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400-Year-Old-Soshu-School-Wakizashi-signed-Kunishige-Horse-Menuki-In-New-Polish-/171061790239?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item27d413c61f

Welcome John! There's a wealth of information here for everyone, and although sometimes the replies to yet again "I bought something on eBay, but can you tell me what I bought" might seem harsh, please stick with it and don't hesitate to ask questions, because it's an addiction for live and very rewarding :D

Here are some better pics of the tsuba - first signature Mitsuoki?

Hi Kiyoshi-sama! Ah I see you found the seal! Very nice - I know the Hon'ami papers I sent you will be in good hands :D

Ah Gilles - I know the first one very well :-) Almost bought it myself - Gassan Sadakatsu - thought it was very well made! Good to know it's in France - Should you ever look to sell it one day - please think of me :-)

I thought it was widely known that Zen Gallery gets its stuff mainly on yahoo and resells it on eBay? Anyone following Yahoo and eBay can easily confirm this