Bruce Pennington

Still, that some nice, unique work.

Thanks to @John C, who sent me a fully translated page from Ohmura's site, we have confirmation that the stamped numbers on RJT blades were in fact put there by the armory! We still don't have documentation that explains the stamped numbers on non-RJT blades, but this is great news, for me at least! From the page: "The sword blade stems delivered to this armory are: (1) Those with only a "star" mark that has passed the Army Material Inspection (2) A "star" and a number stamp on the stem butt (3) A "star" and an inspection mark on the stem building (4) There are various types such as those with a "star" and a small "sekiin". Items made before the designation of a swordsmith or items sold directly without delivery to the armory due to special circumstances even during the period of swordsmithing will not be marked with these inspection seals, number stamps, etc. A sword that does not have the date of manufacture cut on the back of the stem is not a sword that has been once delivered to the armory, even if it is a standard sword of the swordsmith." Noteworthy on another topic is the statement that "Items made before the designation of a swordsmith or items sold directly without delivery to the armory due to special circumstances even during the period of swordsmithing will not be marked with these inspection seals, number stamps, etc." confirming what we've been saying about RJT qualified smiths selling blades directly to the market, bypassing the arsenal, not having stamps. Edit: I just realized they stated that blades sold outside the armory will NOT have stamped numbers: "Items made before the designation of a swordsmith or items sold directly without delivery to the armory due to special circumstances even during the period of swordsmithing will not be marked with these inspection seals, number stamps," Translated page attached: About the specifications of the sword.docx

Just an effort to warn potential buyers. There is a group of 5 swords for sale by Rock Island HERE that has a fake Type 95 NCO in the mix. I've messaged them, so hopefully they will adjust their item description. They usually will add the work "style" into an item description if questionable, like "Samurai style sword" or "NCO style sword" but this one is straight out described as "2) NCO sword, 35 1/2" OAL, 26" single fuller blade, metal hilt and sheath."

Just curious, as I see it's up and running today, what happened yesterday?

Specifically, Matsue Supervisory Unit of Kokura Army Arsenal. Modern Matsue is (Japanese: 松江市) is the capital city of Shimane Prefecture, Japan, located in the Chūgoku region of Honshu. @mecox

Yes, I was going to recommend the same forum and same Guy (pun intended)!

Ok, thanks guys. Brian, no need in my pointing. This is an area I'm completely ignorant about, which is why I am really counting on you guys who know this stuff. So, one down, a few to go. This was poste by @Nic in 2010, on THIS THREAD. It's all he posted, and he hasn't been here since then, so it might not be enough for a valued judgement, but here goes: An undated Kiyonobu And here's another undated Kiyonubo found at Japanesesword.com. Might be a better prospect for evaluation: At the risk of overload, one found on Aukshunshuset.com. Undated Kiyonobu

Going through these slowly. Please join in and give me your thoughts Nihonto guys! Sadatsugu, 1942, posted by @hxv. Has obvious hada, but to my untrained eye, seems to have black spots in the hamon. Does this mean oil quenched? Only 2 photos I have of the blade:

Wow, Okan, are those actual inserts holding the sides together, or are they painted on or inlay?

Hi Zack! You may already know about your sword, but in case you don't - It's a Type 98 Japanese officer sword (gunto). You can see plenty of other examples on Ohmura's site here: Army commissioned officers Shin-Guntō (Type 98 Guntō) 1938 (ohmura-study.net) The small stamp at the top is called the "Showa" stamp, and is an approval stamp of the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Association. Blades with this stamp are usually nice quality, non-traditionally made.

The only actual document we have stating which stamp was being used by the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers (Industrial) Association is the magazine article quoted by Ohmura on his page - Japan Syōwa-tō of Seki (ohmura-study.net). It was published in 1940 and states the Association used the Showa stamp: "Akira" engraved on cherry blossoms Conventionally, the memoir of Technical Major Keiyi Oto, the head of the Seki Branch of the Nagoya Army Arsenal, "Japan Sword", and according to the "Seki History" materials, the switching time between the "Seki" and "Sakura ni Akira" inspection stamps was estimated to be around the end of Showa 17, but " Based on the appearance of a sword blade with an inspection inscription, a re-investigation was conducted. With the cooperation of Seiji Ido, chairman of the "Sekiden Japan Sword Forging Technology Preservation Association", in Showa 15, the "Katato Seki" magazine published by Sekimachi at that time The blade, which has passed the strict inspection of the Seki Cutlery Industry Association, is stamped with the inscription "Sakura Hana ni Shoji", and has been well received as a practical sword that is invincible under the heavens This makes it highly likely that a new inspection stamp was used in Showa 14. The documents of the "Seki Cutlery Industry Association" of the parties concerned have not yet been found. The reason for the change in the inscription and the official timing of the change are still unknown." He also has a page (I cannot find it now) where he cites a survey done of the inspected blades and it notes that the number did not include nihonto as "they were not inspected." We don't have any documentation proving who was using the large Seki stamp and why it replaced the Showa stamp. Ohmura discusses it from an interview with someone from the war, but his recollection of events has it reversed, stating the large Seki was first and the Showa replaced it. Observed blades prove it was the opposite (along with the cited magazine article). So, the Showa and large Seki stamps were being used on blades that passed inspection (likely showato). Showa stamp - 1935 through 1942 (3 '45 blades found with the stamp); really kicking in at 1940 (319 observed) Seki stamp - seen 1940 - 1945, but kicking in in 1942 (380 observed) Tan stamp - 1940 -1942 (22 observed) I was hoping to see that the smiths with the Tan stamp would be few and all from a particular forge, making the stamp a marketing image, like Piers suggested, for that forge. But we have 11 smiths now with the stamp. While all of them are from Gifu, it seems unlikely they all worked for the same forge (unless @mecox can tell us otherwise!). COULD the stamp have been used by the Association on gendaito? It is a possibility. First, we would need to study as many of these blades as possible to see if they were gendaito. If so, then we still wouldn't know WHO was using it, but the Assoc. would be a possible suspect, if all these smiths had no connection. Tan 1940, Feb Kaneaki (pre RJT) – Gifu Bangbangsan, NMB 1941, Aug Kanetsune – Gifu Yahoo Auction 1942 Sadatsugu – Gifu Hxv, NMB 1942, Jan Kanetada – Gifu David Price, NMB ND TEXT ONLY NO PHOTOS Amahide – Gifu Worthpoint.ebay ND Kaneaki (RJT) – Gifu Cillo, pg 37 ND Kaneaki (RJT) – Gifu Military trader, W-A ND Kaneaki (RJT) – Gifu G584, NMB ND TEXT ONLY NO PHOTOS Kaneaki (RJT) – Gifu SwordsofJapan.ebay ND Kaneaki (RJT) – Gifu St Croix Blades 2 dots ND Kanekuni – Gifu Zook, NMB, kaigunto ND Kanekuni, Ogawa – Gifu F & G, Swordmiths, pg 78 ND Kanenaga, Amichi 包永 – Gifu Waljamanda, NMB ND TEXT ONLY NO PHOTO Kaneshige 兼重 (RJT) – Gifu RIA auction ND Kanesumi, Sato (RJT) – Gifu Sksguide, NMB ND Kanetoshi – Gifu Slough, pg 122 ND Kanetoshi – Gifu GregD, NMB ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Cillo, pg 85 ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Beater, NMB ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Aukshunshuset.com ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Nic, NMB ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Worthpoint.ebay ND Kiyonobu, Nagamura – Gifu Japanesesword.com

Wonder why the mei of both swords are so faint? Great peak into history, too. There were several operations dedicated to improving the steels used for swords in those years, like SMR Mantetsu and Yasugi steel. I like Ohmura's rant about the steadfast classification of "nihonto" and "gendaito" clinging to tamahagane as a requirement. His point was that all of these steels (except those who used foriegn steel) were Japanese. They were forged in Japan, by Japanese craftsmen, trying to make a better sword.

Thanks Thomas. I'm recording it as "C?365" for now.

The Kiyonobu from Japanesesword.com

The Kaneaki pics, from St. Croix blades: (note the 2 dots on the un-dated side. I have one other Kaneaki on file with 2 dots)

That seems to be the growing consensus. 2 of the blades Thomas just posted were being sold by St Croix blades and Japaneseswords.com and both dealers stated the blades were gendaito, showing pictures.

Timothy, Good pics! Someone who knows gendaito/nihonto should be able to help you, like @PNSSHOGUN

Thanks, Steve, just discovered this and adding it to my charts of blades with stamped numbers.

If that is known, then sure! We are just trying to understand the significance of the stamp. Even Richard Fuller, in his book, understands what the kanji says but no one understands why it is there. Does it mean the blade is made in a traditional manner? Is it a quality stamp by a particular forge??Just trying to figure out why it is on some blades.

Ah. I thought it might be something that would shed some light on the tan stamp.

Old Thread Warning!!! @SteveM @Kiipu Still feel good about the Chonsai Emura translation on this? Thomas, What do you think that first character is before the 365?

Timothy, I don't read Japanese, so maybe you can help us with this post? Otherwise, we'll wait for @Kiipu @BANGBANGSAN @SteveM. Photo righted and enhanced a bit

Time to have fun, Max! Good thing you got them down in price. $120 is the going price for fakes, which this is. A known design from a productive fake operation. Take a look at the Ohmura site for legit NCO swords: Non-commissioned officers Gunto 1935 (Type 95 Guntō)/title> (ohmura-study.net) How was the trip to V.N.?

I ran through my files. Only one was from a member @Michael 67 and I sent him a PM hoping for a mune shot. The rest are from auctions, dealers, and sales that didn't post mune pics.

We see so many army blades that are unmarked and instamped because there are so many more of them. Current theory is that unmarked blades were sold to private shops, going around the military, because the smith made more money that way. Maybe these navy blades fall into that category. Maybe they were sold directly to a civilian sword shop, bypassing the Navy Arsenal, and making more money for the sword smith.