Bruce Pennington

Update: Don't have major changes to the doc, but have added some things and corrected a couple. Considering where to take the document next. One option would be to start collecting kokuin. Not sure this is useful, though, as each of the smith's personal kokuin were always tied to the smith, so you see the smith name, you know the kokuin. However there are a few items like a diamond or square or double dots that may be worth collecting and watching for reasons/connections. Any recommendations? Stamps.docx

Thanks John, that's a nice one! This "Sa 520" number is close to another I have listed, "Sa 459" and it carries the "Nan" stamp too. I'm attached my updated chart for anyone following. Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

Update: Another unexpected development! I started finding serial numbers marked with kanji that didn't fit the katakana very well. Turns out they are HIRAGANA!! The Japanese-fluent will have to forgive me, but I didn't even know about hiragana. As it was explained to me, katakana are for "foreign" sounds, while hiragana are Japanese sounds. Hiragana are recognizable (to me) in that they appear to be written in a fluid "script" like style, while the katakana are blocky "print" style, in English terms. I've included a picture of one. It's a hiragana "To", which has a resemblance to the katakana "To". I'm not sure how this affects my efforts to identify a methodological pattern to the numbering of blades. We will see .....

Neil, Do you have a year on that gunto? I'm posting an article by Nick Komiya on the use of aluminum to replace nickle and copper in awards/medals and coins. The shortages hit them hard by 1941 and aluminum began being used. http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/anyone-care-rinji-seishiki-contingency-spec-badges-677442/ Personally, considering the weight of a gunto, I would have preferred the aluminum saya to a steel one, so I could see guys paying for the aluminum. I have not heard nor read anything that talks of it though.

Peter, It may be surprising, but the massive majority of the Mantetsu blades are marked using katakana. Only a few have, what I'm learning, is hiragana. I even have record of 3 very early Mantetsu with English alph-numeric numbering. I'm posting some examples, along with my dad's Koa isshin with some before and after pics.

Please forgive my ignorance, but is hiragana equivalent to our script writing where katakana is like our print?

Yes, it definitely looks that way. Thanks for spotting that!

Help! This is the serial number on the nakago mune of a Mantetsu blade. The first kanji SHOULD be a katakana, but I don't see this one on my chart at all? Any ideas? Thanks!

Tom, After seeing Trystan's batch of Mantetsu, 2 of his have flat nakago mune (Spg '44 SE 2575, and Spg '44 SE 1066). So my idea of it being a very early style just went out the window!

Thanks Trystan! I had already translated them, but with your post I was able to double-check my work, I appreciate it.

Hi Jean, Your point about blades getting koshirae changed over the years is a valid point, however it MOSTLY applies to ancestral swords that went through centuries of use. I'll admit that even the modern gunto, once suffering damage, would see replacement fittings as well. But even with the old blades, you could imagine the value of one found in original, 600 year old fittings (in decent shape of course!) compared to one in fittings made yesterday. But even that varies with the taste of the individual collector. Part of the interest, to some of us, is the story. To have a Type 32 saya drag with serial numbers filed off and re-typed gives a tiny view into the life of the blade, and some of us find that fascinating. To know that post-war owners have mixed stuff around spoils the purity of the story. As already stated by many, to some of us who enjoy the discipline/hobby of studying Type 95's, it contaminates the evidence to mess with stuff. Much of what we have to study is simply the gunto themselves, since there is very little documentary information for us to go by. The detective work is fun. Tampering with the evidence interferes with our hobby. As for Luis - he is simply another guy with his own tastes and opinions. Their mercenary view of making money off our hobby is as repusive to many of us as is the practice of cleaning the nakago of a nihonto to nihonto collectors. It wouldn't be quite as bad if Showa22 would document the originals before making changes, and posting the history with the sale. I cleaned my Mantetsu nakago, but I took pictures of the original state (and of course I will never sell it either!). But this is not the only bad practice of the guy. If it were, this conversation probably wouldn't be taking place. He has been damaging blades with bad polishing and faking mei as well. His is not a matter of taste, it involves clear intent to deceive.

Trystan, You're killin' me man!!! 1 - that you have so MANY Mantetsu!, and 2 - that you made me translate all those dates and numbers!!! HA! It was good practice, though. So new developements: We now have TWO consecutive numbers Ku 326 and Ku 327 in 1942 - we would hope to see that; and ALL 6 of our '44 numbers are 4-digit numbers. (thanks to DaveR, who pointed out one of my numbers "243" was really "1143".) (oh, and one of my 4-digits were transposed) I've updated the chart and attached. Mantetsu Serial Numbers.docx

Hamfish nailed it as a "transitional" Type 8 (transitioning to the Type 19). Jim Dawson says the black is custom order, as would be the tempered blade. The nihonto pro's can get more specific on the age, but my inexperienced eye says it's just a period (late 1880's - early 1900's) custom order, tempered blade, not nihonto. These run in the $400 USD range, plus or minus. Terminology is a bit looser with these, as some guys call them "dress" or "parade" swords. Personally, I use those terms for the chromed, non-tempered blades. Tempered ones like this, were often carried in battle, all the way through the war (or "wars" as they lived through Japanese-Sino, Japanese-Russo, and WWII).

Tom, Thanks for the new number! As to the mune surface - it's a new one on me. I just checked my Fall '40 and Spring '41 and they are both rounded. It's something I've not noticed before. I'll start watching for that, now that you've mentioned it. A couple of changes happened those first couple of years, so, it's possible the shape started flat, then becamed round in '40 onward, but we'll start watching for that to see.

Thanks Stephen, oh anywhere from $20 to $60 depending who you get them from.

Got some seppa, mekugi, and chuso from Neil (IJASWORDS) (Thanks Neil!!!!), and they fit nice and tight! Still need a sarute. Anyone have one to sell?

Pics aren’t high def, but looks legit.

Wow Seth! It was the bright gold that threw me off in the first place. Hmmm. Did they say whether they thought the gold plating was done for the palace initial order?

Chuck, read this thread. We broke the code dude! : http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23543-pet-dragon-solves-faux-roman-numeral-mystery/

I wonder if they were special order.

So, for that purpose, these are a fair representation.

Chris, Nagoya seemed to have less quality control compared to the Tokyo operation. Variations abounded. I'd have to see more of the blade, serial number, and tsuka to make a call. I agree the stamping is thinly cut, and the definition in the ito wrap looks poor, but everything else seems normal, so lacking more of the gunto, even the saya, I'd write those differences off to Nagoya quality control.

Charlie, you just made my day with that single-digit serial number! But this throws an interesting development into the mix. I've seen a "Na 124" and "Na 190" on a 1939 blades. Yours, as a 1941 means that the numbering was either not sequential, or the numbers ran to a certain amount, and then started over.

Wow, Trystan! That is the first Mantetsu I've ever seen with a wavy hamon!

DEH, (Note: please go to you your settings and put in a name we can talk to, thanks!) You've got a nice Type 98 Japanese Army Officer gunto, made in August 1943, for the Nagoya Arsenal (small stamp). Someone better at this may correct me, but I believe the smith's name is 兼定 (Kanesada). Welcome to the club! It's the same way (my father, though) I got hooked on the hobby! Great place to learn some basic about these is the Ohmura site: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html and The Japanese Sword Index: http://japaneseswordindex.com/nihonto.htm