Bruce Pennington

Neil, I tossed and turned on the same decision about my Dad's Koa Isshin. It's got lots of stains and scratches that give it the "used in combat" (or on some poor hapless Chinese) that is tempting to preserves as-is; but it's Dad's. So I've decided to have it polished. Sentimental reasons only. You know that there are really good polishers out there that can do it for around $2,000, right? That's what I'll be paying for mine, when my turn comes up this Spring.

Stephen, amazingly I was running that same thought through my head as you must have been typing it! David, yes, I have been delving fairly deep into Type 95 NCO gunto for some time lately. They have large "Arsenal" stamps and alongside, there are small "inspector" stamps. Yes, the inspectors are tied to the arsenal, and just seeing the inpector stamp immediately identifies the blade's arsenal, but the two are there for different reasons. It's like buying a new shirt. On the tag is the maker's name, say Land's End. Usually, also, inside you'll fid a little paper sticky with the quality control inpector's number that we always peel off and discard. The inspector's sticky is not the same as the maker's name and is there for different reasons. So, yes, we're (or I) having a semantics problem! the "Arsenal Stamps" thread has become much more than just a collection of arsenal stamps. There are swordsmith (I've forgotten the official term) personal hotstamps. There are area swordmith guild stamps (Gifu, Seki), there are quality stamps (star, showa), there are patent stamps, etc. Yes, most of those are used and put on by arsenals, but they are not the trademark (to use Ohmura's term) of the arsenal. So, I realize I must broaden my scope when I read someone ask about "arsenal" stamps! The stamps have become a bit of a secondary hobby interest for me, so I'm just going to have to seek clarification with the question asker before launching into my answer. Good discussion guys, thanks!

Neil, yes I've seen stamps on koshirae, but even that one is more an inspector stamp rather than the arsenal stamp; but I meant the blade itself. David, Like I said, my experience is QUITE limited as I've only been studying gunto for a little over 2 years. And one of my lessons learned is "never say never!" Would you think it fair to say that it's rare to see arsenal stamps (not inspector stamps) on Army gunto? I'd say it's slightly more common to see inspector stamps, like Na and To on Army gunto, but even that is PROBABLY less than 50%, seems to me.

David, I'm specifically speaking of Arsenal stamps - Kokura, Tokyo, Nagoya, Incheon, even Mantetsu. Sure, you'll see Star, Showa, even Seki; but I can't say I've ever seen an Arsenal stamp on an Army blade. Navy, sure, Tenzoshan (sp?) and Toyokawa, but even those are, what, 50% or less on Navy gunto?

In my limited experience, I'd say Army gunto almost never have an arsenal stamp. Navy gunto sometimes have arsenal stamps (50% or less). NCO gunto always do.

Steve, It's on a 1945 blade with a chippy Seki-style smith name of "Nagamitsu". It's a bit puzzling because it's clearly not the famous Nagamitsu (wrong "Naga" kanji), plus the Naga kanji is right for a Seki naga, but the only Seki Nagamitsu I can find even uses a different kanji. This naga is used in other smith names, but not in the Nagamitsu, as far a I can find.

Here's an odd one: Looks like the kanji "So" as in Soshu, or made by. Does "So" by its self mean "made"?

Very good! Here's mine. You can see the file marks, and for some reason they added an extra "1" in the number

Very nice piece, Neil! Is it Ko or Otsu? Would it be fair to say the 2 numbers on the other side look lined out with horizontal lines? Don't know why they would do that versus filing them off, like others I've seen.

And honestly, Neil, you haven't "done" anything to it, any more than the original owner would have done regularly himself. But I understand. It is "preserve as is" collector practice, which is cool.

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Yes, Ed, thanks for the link! I enjoyed reading about both the knots and the ito wrapping styles!

Neil, I believe I have read that this was a patent number. It is described on Ohmura's site, but it's in Japanese: 　　右より 　實用新案特許 若瀬軍刀製作所(東 京市芝區)の商標　　裏: 第213917號 I think that's the same number as yours, so it most likely is a patent number and not a serial number. As always, leave it to you to have a very beautiful example of every variation of the gunto!!! I love it!

Ahhhh, thanks I needed that !!! Similar number range. Mine is 134112, with the same Nagoya inspector stamp:

Neil, From Stegel's post on my thread: " "The Nagoya Arsenal (in the 132k range under Kokura) stopped the production of the previous Pattern 3 (Aluminium handle with top lock latch/steel tsuba) and moved it to the 200k range. This was later followed by the side lock version, resulting in this pattern being found in both ranges (100k and 200k)." I have a "Na" stamp on the blade next to the serial number, one on a seppa, and one on the saya drag. It is the only stamps on mine. As to serial number ranges, maybe Shamsy or Stegel can say. BTW, you're not going to leave us with that one single solitary pic are you?!?!?!

I don't recall seeing these stamps on this thread yet (if it is, please let me know and I'll delete this!) From Alex, as seen for sale via the web, a contractor and inspector stamp on a Kokura Arsenal Type 95 gunto. As far as I can find, the contractor stamp is legit, but classed "Unknown". Any ideas on the inspector stamp? My guess is the "Ho" of Kokura 1st.

Alex, Stegel of Shamsy would be the guys who would know this for sure, but the contractor stamp on the left, as far as I know is a recognized legit stamp, but falls into the "Unknown" category. I'm more stumped by the center inspector stamp. It's possible it is the "Ho" of the Kokura 1st Also, I don't recall seeing these on the "Stamps" thread, so if you don't mind, I'm going to reference your post and add it there.

Thanks Joe & Steve! I've lent out my reference books to my brother, or I'd have looked that up myself.

Guys, I don't follow this style so I have very little to go by, is there anything beyond the serial number that bothers you. Asking for the education, not to argue. The pics are poor quality, but the sabre seems to look good. These type of gunto did come with scabbard drags (pic below from Ohmura's site) Greg, do you have some better pics, like a view of the handguard basket, and closeups of the handle backstrap?

Steve & Stegel - I completely agree with Neil - THANK YOU! These are fabulous!!! And Neil- my folks lived out in the countryside of east Texas. Everytime I drove through that area, with it's old homesteads full of retired old folks, I can't help but look at each house as I go by and think "I bet there's a great gunto leaning in the closet of that house!!!"

I would like to hear from Windy as to whether he's open to the idea of pulling the tsuka off for a view of the nakago. The gap on the handle and fuchi might be due to a bent nakago. I have one on a ver 3 side-latch that is so bent I'm amazed it fits in the handle (pic attached). Windy?

It sort of has the look of an old family blade militarized for service in the war, where many of the fittings are original and just enough is added, menugi, saya, to militarize it.

*I several posts above happened as I typed this, Thanks Stegel for the strikingly similar example I admit the shape of the kissaki-end of the bo-hi is not the normal shape of a Tokyo Arsenal blade. It is rounded, which is often a tell-tale sign of a fake, however, I have a Nagoya ver 3 (side-latch) with a rounded bo-hi, so I don't know what to think about that. I agree the serial number font is odd. Also, the tsuka-side seppa is unevenly shaped. The Kokura cannon balls are a bit thin, but the contractor stamp is legit looking. Windy, can you get a good look at the dimpling in the diamond-shapes and tell if they are raised bumps, or are they indented? Indented dimples are another error the reproductions have. Also, Windy, if you are willing, it often tells us a lot to see the nakago (tang). Some guys don't like to take NCO gunto apart because they sometimes have a little wiggle when you put them back together. I take all mine apart and have a 50/50 experience with the wiggle, but it's worth it to me to see the nakago. One thing I have found studying these - there are ALWAYS exceptions and variations to the norm!!!

It is most likely the polisher, but no way to really know. You can read the full discussion your inscription here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/21519-name-on-nakago-mune/

Interesting! That one is dated on the mune.