Bruce Pennington

Indeed! Quite stabby, Bryce! Good show!

Here's a mon on a civilian tsuba and saya:

After scanning this whole thread, I don't see the chart I had just mentioned. Thomas found this in Rikugunshō 陸軍省 [War Ministry]. Rikugun Heiki Gyōsei Honbu 陸軍兵器行政本部 [Army Ordnance Administration Headquarters]. Ken’in oyobi hyōshiki kitei 檢印及標識規定 [Regulations for Inspection Marks and Signs]. After discussing it with Nick Komiya, Warrelics http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/mysterious-w-stamp-636794-3/, it seems fairly certain the W stamp is a "midway/halfway" inspection mark. As you can see in the chart, though, it should be an M, as yamagata means "mountain shape", and is called a "chevron." Nick even has a shovel with the W stamp, and he believes after reading this chart, that this is what we are seeing. It would fit the unfinished Mantetsu blades sent to the Tokyo arsenal (and likely some sent to Mukden) as these could have had midway inspections before leaving the factory. I don't see why private smiths, like Takehisa, would have midway inspections on their work before finishing, though. Yet, since I have almost NO IDEA of the process these blades went through, I admit it was possible. In a similar vein, I admit there might have been a reason for stamping them upside-down too. Maybe we'll find out some day!

John, It's out there. When you find them on Mantetsu, there are often 2 W's. The one's with 3 seem to be on named smiths. Here's a Takehisa with 3. No idea why. I'm still puzzled by the idea that these are "midway/halfway" inspection stamps. From the chart, these should be chevron-up, like mountain peaks "M", but predominantly they are chevron-down like "W". Ran this by Richard Fuller and he's not convinced it is the stamp referenced in the chart Thomas found.

Dang Neil!!! I wish I had met you before I bought my kai (at $2,400)!!!

Yes, Geraint. The guy said it was a bring-back by his grandfather. But that doesn't mean it was carried in the war. It could have been, I suppose, but there were many privately owned swords that were confiscated at war's end. It doesn't appear to have been re-fitted at all.

That is interesting Dave, I had never noticed that. Plenty in combat saya, of course, but in standard metal saya? Do you know about the blades in these? Were they older? Were they shingunto?

There were two anchors - Toyokawa and Tenshozan. Toyokawa was the arsenal and had a simple anchor. Tenshozan was a company and had a more elaborate anchor: Toyokawa Tenshozan

Unusual signature on the first one, I'd be interested to see what it says. Second one has the Tenshozan factory stamp. Both are nice, but I'd go for the second, unless the smith on the first is someone special.

Moriyama (Nobody) over on Translation Assistance said the same thing! I humble myself before you and expose my neck for your blade!!!

Ha! He nothing but a young grasshoppah! (Or WAS) His initials weren’t TD we’re they!?!? I did manage to shoot the head off a butterfly with my BB gun once. I was quite shocked as I was aiming mid-thorax..

Nicely displayed Marzio!

That's a good one Ted! Seems to be by the same smith or factory. Might even be the guys George Trotter has been following.

Sorry Kinnza, I mistook your title and was thinking "tsukas"! Here's an interesting one posted on Warrelics, http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/Japanese-sword-translation-needed-746608/. Note the kamon imprinted on the tsuba.

I was told it was a vet-bring-back from Patton's invasion of Sicily!

Interesting topic Neil, thanks! I just collect WWII Gunto, though, I do have some pre-WWII Type 32s. Like Chris, I began with rocks and coins. I still have two shadow-boxes of butterflies I caught and dried for display.

Yes agree on the pop-ups! Here’s the rest of the pics.

Just thought this was an interesting one. Found on a civilian sword re-fitted for the Navy during the war. Navy fuchi and kabutogane, but they left the original same' in white. Don't see too many re-fitted swords for the Navy, so I don't know if leaving the white same' was normal practice. Might also explain some war pictures of Naval officers wearing what appears to be gunto with army tsukas (white same'). Found over on Gunboards:https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1114013-Recent-Sword-Find&p=9919627#post9919627

Thanks Bruce, The other stamps are Gifu stamps. The one you are thinking is a W is tough to make out. Maybe it's more obvious in person. I can see it might be poorly struck and is the left half of a W, but it could be a poorly struck Seki as well. Trystan, you are WAY better at reading smith names than I will ever be, but would the kanji "直" be written with 4 vertical lines? I don't know what it could be but that seem odd. Bruce you might run it by the Translation Assistance forum: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/15-translation-assistance/

I would add to Brian's description the double release buttons. The gunto with gendaito blades seem to all have the double release button. In line with the phrase "With WWII gunto, never say never, and never say always!" I personally have a star-stamped RJT gentai blade that came in a metal saya, though the paint is dark not light. It has the double release button too.

Wow Neil. Do you think it's man-made? Seems too geometrical to be natural, yet, the dots seem the same as those around them and the dots around them seem to be undisturbed. In both, the dots spiral in toward the center dot. On another note, I always thought this large dotted skin was eel. I have one that I was told was shark, and the way to tell, they said, was shark has diamond-like shape to the dots. But this is something I know nothing about. (hope I don't side-track your point!).

That's quite an interesting book Thomas cited. It is an American edition, first published in 1942, of the original Tokyo edition dated "as far back as 1932." Col Creswell had 2 Japanese officers working with him on it. Nick Komiya, Warrelics, has doubts about the definition since the yamagata images on blankets and other military items have 3 full peaks. I believe it is possible they Army stamp marking office simply narrowed the image to fit a tiny metal stamp.

Ahso! It says “property of the War Dept”. That makes more sense than the prefecture idea. Mantetsu blades, even unfinished ones sent to the Tokyo Arsenal, wouldn’t be getting a Yamagata prefecture stamp, but getting a War Dept stamp would make sense! It would also explain why blades would have them from other areas of the empire.

Thomas,I looked up "Yamagata" and found there is a prefecture named Yamagata. It is near another prefeture, Fukushima, that I have seen an inspector stamp from (fuku). It is possible these are inspector stamps from the various prefectures. Interesting! The word means "mountain shape" and would be a fitting stamp for the Yamagata prefecture.

Me too, still don't see it after hearing the translation! Dud wis a badd spillerr!