Bruce Pennington

Neil, On the '44 Mantetsu, thanks for the number, I've added the stamp to my file on it. No word yet on the "I", but I did discover that the Ren stamps are, so far, appearing on '44 model Mantetsu's (only 1 Ren on a '43). I have several '43's with "Nan" stamps. So the Nan began appearing in '43,and the Ren late '43, but mostly '44. Interesting! Ohmura's discussion of these is confusing, and he admits he is not certain about them, but it is his opinion that these were coming from the Nanman Arsenal (Japanese name for Mukden factory). It's my current theory that Mantetsu was supplying unfinished blades to them, like they were to Tokyo. The dates perfectly match Nick Komiya's revelation about the practice.

Neil, Chris nailed it. There's another discussion of these on Warrelics ( http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/imagination-runs-wild-shin-gunto-attributed-paratrooper-718072/.) Dawson has better pics, but he's quoting Fuller, pages 103-5. Fuller doesn't state how he knew this was on a paratrooper's gunto, but he goes into a moderate amount of detail, so he's clearly had a source for it. He states that these were "personalizations" and not an official badge. He does state that this particaular one (out of 3 patterns found on gunto) was for an officer. I originally thought it was a unique custom pattern, but several of them are showing up lately, so there might have been a supplier making them for a whole unit.

Sure I understand. I got my money’s worth though.

It cost me $2,300.

Neil, what serial number is that one? I'd like to keep the picture of the stamps with it in my files.

These sell around $900-1,200 USD.

Thanks Stephen, that’s a beauty and one I didn’t have! The fittings look original to me but I think the blade was recently professionally polished.

Called a Type 98 Officer sword. Lucky to still have the original fabric tassel loop on the handle! You can read a great deal about them here: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html Sorry but I cannot read smith names either. Someone will.

Can anyone translate the kanji on that button?

Neil, I have seen that combination once or twice. I don’t know the significance of the rail minus the “M”, (I have to admit I never realized the broken circle around the rail WAS an M until now!!!). I’m doing some research to educate myself about the difference between the Ren and Nan stamps, the Mukden vs Nanman arsenals. I believe the Mantetsu factory was supplying unfinished blades to these arsenals, so maybe the stamp is in recognition of the source (Mantetsu) but the missing “M” indicates it was finished by another location (like me Mukden or Nanman). Ohmura believed the Mantetsu people may have taught these other two locations to make blades the Mantetsu way, but he wasn’t sure. After what we’ve learned about Mantetsu sharing unfinished blades, I think it’s more likely this is what we’re seeing.

Steve, Thanks for clearing all that up. I still wonder, though, about that Ijima "stamp". It looks more like someone carved it with a pocketknife! I'm posting a side-by-side with one of my Ijima stamps. This one is just horrific. I'll admit the Kokura stamp looks normal, so it doesn't make sense that the Ijima stamp was "faked" on a legit 95 fuchi. I just can't get over that ugly image. Update: After another close look. It's possible the stamp was struck twice - one with an upward angle, and the second with a downward angle. The "D" on the left has a top with no bottom, and the one of the right has a bottom with no top. Also, the bottom of the "circle" is doubled. This is still one Moogly (Muey Ugly) gunto. Who ever made it was sick or hung-over.

Jeremy, Thanks for the pics (the 3 of the handle are all of the same side! Oops!) I don't know who the seller is, but there are a few out there that build a complete gunto out of pieces, and even manufacture parts when needed. This one strikes me that way. The blade looks like it was probably legit, but had terrible pitting/corrosion and was lately buffed/polished. The seppa (spacers) look legit but the fuchi collar with stamps looks new and badly stamped. The top end (what I can see) of the scabbard looks good, but the drag looks too big for a Kokura/Tokyo make. The tip of the fuller-groove is close to correct, but the top-end by the serial number is too sloppy for a Kokura/Tokyo blade. And the serial number looks intentionally damaged. It's just a mess. If you're just really set on getting it, I wouldn't pay market rates.

It would be good to hear from Steve (Shamsy) on this, but I don't like it. I'm posting my example of the Ijima stamp. I don't like the Tokyo inspector stamps either. The serial number looks like it was intentionally scatched to obscure it, and the metal imperfections in the fuller groove look like poor metalwork. I don't like the detail on the handle either. But, there were quite a bit of variation over the years on these, so I could be wrong. It would be nice to see pics of the blade tip and scabbard drag, as well as the other side of the handle retention screw. Overall, my feel is that it is a pretty good "reproduction."

Just as a reminder to self - (dang, I can't copy and paste!) there is a discussion on the Translation Assistance, titled "Name on Nakago Mune", with several actual names and dates on mune. There are also examples of double arsenal stamps (like a "Na" and "Ko"). So, Names CAN appear on mune. The examples on that thread are what I would call "written" as opposed to a stamp, though. So for the one's discussed on this thread, I'm still leaning toward the "city" "arsenal" line of thought.

I just remembered my star-stamped Kunitoshi. It has a single stamp, Seki, on the nakago mune. Is it possible that it was made in the Seki province, and inspected by the Seki guild (or a Nagoya inspector using the Seki stamp) and the 2 stamp system would be redundant, therefor a single stamp?

After what we are thinking now, Stephen, I’m leaning more to “city” “arsenal “ . But we’re way out in Speculation Land.

Thanks again guys. I think we’ve sliced this one as tight as we can. I appreciate the help!

We’re there known smith’s working in those cities? That would make sense in light of what we are discovering.

Ok, and update on Fuku: From Chris S. (Vajo): According to Marcus' book, the blade was made by "Morimitsu for Fukuoka". So, it's looking like other municipalities, like Seki, Gifu, etc, were using stamps (Ok, I know Seki was a Guild, and the Nagoya Arsenal hyjacked it a bit too, but it was still a province).

Thanks Chris. That pretty well pins it to Fukuoak then. Slight correction on the date though, Showa 20 is 1945 (have to subtract 1).

Stephen, Assuming the name is not the smith that made it, I haven't found anyone or any source that goes into the meanings of mune stamping. Most speculate that it was the polisher. A couple have guessed that it was the buyer who contracted the blade. Maybe someone who knows more about smiths, polishers, and WWII can chime it, but I know nothing about these other than the ones that are clearly arsenal inspection stamps. Interesting google find: Hiroshi Yamauchi, 3rd president of Nintendo, and wealthiest Japanese, "was put to work in a military factory" during WWII! Could it be???

Yes, I see the 5 clearly now! The second kanji could even be another 5.

Thanks Chris, does the mei state “Fukuoa”?

Chris could you give us the smith name from this blade? The top kanji is “Fuku” which is either the first kanji of Fukuoka, Fukushima, or “good luck”. But since the Ko is there, I suspect it is one of the city names. The smith name may help us pin it down.

Aoi Japan graciously sent me the original picture and I can see the number more clearly. It is 336!