Bruce Pennington

Denis, Thanks for the new photo. I'm learning to be as specific as I can with my records, so can you verify I have the two right:

It looks like I haven't kept this thread up to date with the discussion on the Mysterious W Stamp thread, found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19390-the-mysterious-w-stamp/page-3. Thomas has discovered a WWII document that seems to indicate the "W" is really inverted and is a double chevron, or yamagata, indicating a "midway/halfway" inspection. As the stamp is found on such varied items as blades, guns, and shovels, it does seem to point to the true meaning of the stamp on these blades. I hesitate to fully buy into it 100% as the vast majority of the blade stamps are in fact a W when the blade is held pointy-end up as you do when reading mei. There are a rare few upside-down W's as this one on Denis' blade, so I don't know. In support of the W being a yamagata, it would fit the scenario where Mantetsu was ordered to send 5,500 unfinished blades to the Tokyo Arsenal. The W does seem to be coming from blades put out in the Tokyo area. Speculating here - a Tokyo inspector receiving the unfinished blades could have stamped the "halfway" inspection mark on them, saying they were acceptable to go on to the the finishing stage by their arsenal workers.

Denis, Thanks for the new blade numbers! Both yours are definitely "Te" I don't have pics of Edward's, and have PM'd him to see if I can get them (I wasn't keeping good records back then!), so we'll see if his was Mi or Te. Could I please get the pics of the other side of the nakago of yours? And I'd REALLY like to get the pics of the Nan stamps, too. For clarity - does the picture with the fittings numbered 168 go with serial number 567? and the 20 with 337? As to the fittings, I honestly don't know if Mantetsu had fitters working right in the factory. The Mantetsu blades are found in SO many differing koshirae that I feel they were shipped out in bare-blade form to everyone who was ordering them, to arsenals, to outfitters, etc. But that is an area of the operation that is a great unknown (as far as I know). On a final note, your blade marked 168 (by the fitters) has the "W" stamp upside-down looking more like the yamagata, or chevron, we have been discussing. Most are "upright" and look like a W, like your other blade. That's still a mystery.

Thanks George! As is often the case, the anwer is "all the above" or "it depends"! Among the many post-war documents on this thread: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/57-nt-and-iao-list-and-sword-documents-by-us-gov-1945-1950/, there are letters mentioning the looting of shrines to take swords, along with legal confication, leaving receipts. Some were turned into police stations and never seen again (some were returned).

Small update on Toyokawa Arsenal blades with a second stamp: We now have 3 (thanks to Thomas!) blades made by "Inaba" with the same kanji stamped below the Toyokawa stamp. It is the first kanji of the name. Now we have a Toyokawa stamped blade with a "Ko" below the anchor stamp. Unfortunately, the blade is mumei. If anyone finds more like this, I'd like to see them, thanks!

Is it laquered wood or metal?

Fuller said both of these are seen on bayonettes and sword fittings but not seen on nakago, and are of the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal. Thanks for the great examples. I'll fit them into the Stamps doc. I haven't found any thing that identifies the T.E.C. markings. May be pure coincidence, but seem interesting that something starting in "T" is on Toyokawa marked items.

Wow, a mon engraved on the nakago! (for sale by Luis, on the Sale/Trade forum: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29673-long-strong-aoi-mon-shinto-katana-with-gi-provenance-and-gi-made-koshirae/)

Thanks Dave, always wondered about that!

David, were there swords donated to shrines? I read a post-war document talking about shrine swords that were pilfered after the war, so I assumed that meant the blades were located in the shrine?

Dang! How does a guy respond to something like this? (Neil, you turd-bird!!! Love ya, dude!) I really appreciate your kind words. Beyond the fun and joy of this hobby, the second-best thing about what we are doing is getting to know, and working alongside great guys from, literally, around the globe. (I don't know, maybe that's the best thing about this!). I honestly do enjoy our time together. As to the work, it's just fun chasing down leads and trying to solve mysteries - and it's all about swords!!! Can't get much better than that! I will honestly say that most of what I do is gather together information already gained by the time and efforts of other great guys. Heck much of the info comes from every one of you who feeds me the next link or picture. I would name some names, but no doubt I would miss some who right deserve credit, so I'll just say THANKS! to everyone. You know who you are! Thanks to all for the encouragement and commaradship. Now get back to work! HA!

Ray, I'm thinking this might require a new tracking folder for "Made In ..." as there are a number of swords out there with inscriptions like that. There are "shrine swords" too, but that normally refers to Yasukuni and Minatogawa Shrine swords. Do you know if the Hachiman Shrine was making swords on a regular basis?

That price better go up. The tsuka alone is worth $200.

Thomas, thanks! That's actually another page than what I had read, but this one has more detail. The other one says the Seki Guild "adopted" the Sho when the Nagoya arsenal started using the Seki stamp, making it sound like the Guild invented the stamp. Your page shows the Showa stamp came to be used at the order of the Interior Ministry. Of course, it might have come at the request of the Seki Guild and simply made official by the Ministry. This would make both pages in agreement. This page dates the change to 1939. The english paragraphs don't completely tell the full story depicted in the Japanese ones, and the google translate is horrible, but I think it mentions the Showa stamp really didn't show up until 1940 in actual use, which fits what everyone else is saying. What I'd like to gather is dates on blades with Gifu and other regional stamps to see if they fall in sequence AFTER the Showa stamp was no longer being used.

Something has changed, but I don't know exactly what. They are papering Mantetsu blades, and registering war blades. I know a shop owner who has a showato. If I buy it, he says he'll get it registered before he ships it to me. Next time I get a chance, I'll bring a speaker with me and see if I can find out what changed and when it happened.

Steve, thanks! Your explanation makes sense. Thanks for the added info. Much appreciated.

So, I would liken this to a guy tatoo-ing a cross on his arm, or a guy that goes to war wearing a St Christopher medalion. In a sense, he's saying "I'm dedicated to my God" (therefore, please GOD keep me safe!!!). So, I'll list this in the Dedications category.

Thanks Thomas, that last link did the trick! So this can be taken to say "The shining/apparent deity of Taga" or a reference to the "Taga Grand Shrine." "Up until the early modern period, use of titles such as myōjin or gongen for many deities and their shrines were so widespread that these gods were rarely referred to by their proper names.[10] For instance, both the god of Kashima Shrine and the shrine itself were known as 'Kashima Daimyōjin' (鹿島大明神); the deity enshrined in Suwa Grand Shrine was called 'Suwa Daimyōjin' (諏訪(大)明神), and so on. (cf. Hachiman-daibosatsu (八幡大菩薩) or Kumano Gongen (熊野権現)). After his death, Toyotomi Hideyoshi was deified under the name 'Toyokuni Daimyōjin' (豊国大明神).[15][16]" It is interesting that the "Dai" part was outlawed by the Meiji govt: "When the Meiji government officially separated Shinto from Buddhism, official use of titles and terminology perceived as having Buddhist connotations such as (dai)myōjin, (dai)gongen or daibosatsu by shrines were legally abolished and discouraged. However, a few deities/shrines are still often referred to as (dai)myōjin in popular usage even today. (E.g. Kanda Myōjin in Chiyoda, Tokyo, enshrining the deified vengeful spirit of Taira no Masakado).[citation needed]" Neil, is there a date on this blade?

No, it was only in Japanese (Google translated it for me), and began at in the first paragraph talking about the Seki stamp change.

Hi guys! Got this translation from this blade, but still don't know what it means. Any help? Thanks!

Has anyone got the link to an Ohmura page where he was discussing the Seki Guild moving from the "Seki" stamp to the "Sho" stamp? I was reading it recently and now can't find the page! It was his contention that the Seki Guild was originally using the Seki stamp until it became an inspector stamp at Nagoya Arsenal. So they began using the Sho. If correct, this tells us who was using the Showa stamp - Seki smiths! I believe they stopped when the Kokura arsenal stopped administering both Tokyo and Nagoya. As Nagoya began stamping their own arsenal work, I think the Seki smiths started using regional stamps like the Gifu and Fuku stamps. The timing seems to coincide when the Showa and Kokura stamps ceased. I just need to start checking dates on Gifu and Fuku stamps blades to see if they were '42 and later.

That's cool, Stephen. I'm filing it and will add full translation as you pass it along to us. Thanks!

Come on, you guys are killin' me! Is this "Daimyojin Shrine"?

Nice one Stephen, can we get a translation? And is that a kyugunto blade?

Marzio, Looks like Steve and Ernie are going to make me start saying stuff that I have no real knowledge of, so they can come in later and fix it!!! Ha! I have read that the army portioned out blocks of numbers to each of the arsnals, and have often stated that myself. After looking at the charts in Fuller's book, the blocks must have been smaller than I imagined. The numbers seem to be scattered between Kokura and Nagoya in almost random sets. His chart doesn't show the 200's and 300's, but I think they were more definably Nagoya and Incheon, though I have a vague memory of some really early 200's with Tokyo inspection marks. Out on a limb again - I have always believed the wooden handled 95s started sometime in '44. So if you have a 204,XXX number, it was probably made in 1944.