Bruce Pennington

When we started studying the kikusui "stamp" as a group, we realized it wasn't a stamp at all, but each one was handcrafted. Even stamps like the Seki and some Type 95 stamps have variations. I wouldn't be surprised if we found, upon further comparison to many examples, that the Star has plenty of variations too. I could be wrong, Luis. You are the one studying them. Fill us in on your progress as you go. I would enjoy learning more on them.

John, or Luis, is that the source of this blade - Showa22? If so, that adds another layer of doubt. It is true that many of the RJT smiths made both gendaito and showato. So it IS possible this was a showato, non-star, blade that someone post-war put the star to increase the value. I still say though, the stamp looks hot-stamped the way the metal splooshes (that official swordmith term!) around the stamp. I doubt any of our favorite shysters can hot-stamp a blade.

My understanding of the arsenals has always been slim-to-none. Help me understand this better, please. Did the Kokura Arsenal have "branch offices" in multiple cities? If so, do you know where? Was this true of the other arsenals?

Japaneseswordindex has Kiyotsugu listed in the RJT page: The following are known blades with star stamps by Jumei Tosho swordsmiths. Miyairi Shohei (Akihira) Niigata Akihisa Hiragawa Akimitsu Kasuga Seizou Tokoro Harumoto Chikuzen (no) Kuni ju Muto Hidehiro Hidemine Chikuzen ju Kajihara Hiromitsu Ikusa no Kajitsu Hisakuni Yoshu Seiunshi Hisatsugu Noshu ju Kuriyama Kaneaki (star + Kitae stamp) Kaneharu Noshu ju Kanehide (star + Seki stamp) Seki ju Kanehide Noshu ju Kanehisa (Kojima) Kanemichi (star +Showa stamp) Noshu Seki ju Kanemichi Takeuchi Kanemitsu Seki Kanemoto Kanenaga (star +Seki stamp) Noshu ju Kanenobu Noshu Seki ju Kanenori Kaneshige (star + Seki stamp) Noshu ju (Morita) Kaneshige Seki ju Kanetomo (star + Seki stamp) Noshu ju (Murayama) Kanetoshi (star + Seki stamp) Gunma Imae Kanetsugu Joshu ju Imai Kanetsugu Seki ju Kanetsugu Tsushima Kanetsugu Kawai Kaneyoshi Inoue Katsukiyo Tokyo Dai Ichi Rikugun Zoheisho Katsunobu Yoshida Katsunori Sanjo ju Fujiwara Kazunori (may also be read as Ichinori) Oki Kuni ju Kikumitsu (star + tai stamp) Senshu Kiyokane Choshu ju Kiyokune Izumo (no) Kuni Kiyomitsu Choshu ju Kiyotsugu <<<<<<<<----------- Hizen ju Kunimitsu Mori Kunitoshi Noshu ju Kunitoshi (same as Mori Kunitoshi) Sendai Kunitsugu

Thomas,On this post, you mentioned the Matsuyama branch office. In a recent email, Richard Fuller mentioned a "Matsuyama shop." Are we talking about the same thing? Was Matsuyama a sword and/or koshirae manufacturer? Or is this just an Army arsenal inspector organization? On a connected note, it just occured to me that the "matsu" and "yama" stamps are probably 2 peas-in-a-pod - from the same inspection office - Matsuyama - just like the 2 Type 95 stamps of the Kobe factory we just figured out. Matsu yama

Interesting icon change, did you go Game of Thrones White Walker on us?!?

Is it Luis? Please go to your settings and add at least a first name, forum rules, thanks! It is a peculiar star, isn't it! It actually looks like it was hot-stamped into the steel, rather than a cold stamp. There are some guys who are quite knowledgable on the RJT operation, which is where you'll see lots of star stamped blades. Maybe one of them will take a look at it. If you search "star stamp" or "RJT" on the forum, you should be able to find them, and maybe shoot them a PM. Do you you the smith's name on this one? Was he an RJT smith? If not, that would invalidate the star.

Thank you Moriyama-san! That nailed it. Chris, sorry to say, but it's John's not mine. I plan to get one of these for my collection, but have too many things ahead of it to chase one down yet. John, you got a good deal on that one! They normally run in the $1,200 range!

All, Anyone recognize this writing? It's on a kyu blade. I've seen similar writing on the handguard of a navy dirk. If memory serves, isn't it some sort of old religious writing? I'm adding a side-by-side with the image flipped incase I've got is upside down.

Thomas, It's tempting, but I just don't see it. See comparison below. I have a vague memory of an older Japanese wrtiting style (started with an S, I think) that was often used on older blades. Might have been religious based. I think this writing is of that style.

Here is a more clear picture of that one. Hopefully someone will be able to translate!

Latest update, 4.1, on the Stamps Document. Been making some big headway with the research guys like Thomas have been handing us. Latest version is updated on the Kobe and Mizuno Type 95 stamps, as well as the just discussed Company stamp. Might be some cosmetic streamlining as well. Thanks to all who have been keeping this going!

Thank you, again, Thomas! I've moved the stamp out of the "Unknowns" category.

Here's one John! Just look at the length of that nakago!!! Found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18864-ho-no-to-kenma-project/page-3

I agree Thomas, I've made the correction to 367. Trystan, Are you in contact with the owner? I'd like to see if there is anything under the habaki. With that much pitting in the nakago, it is very easy to be misled. Plus, what looks like "Nu" to me is way too close to the first 8. Usually there is a bit of space between them, and often the katakana is just under the edge of the habaki. Can you ask him for a picture without habaki?

Yes, you're right about that!

Someone spent some extra bucks on this one!

Wow, that is the same sword! $750 to $3,000 - quite a mark-up.

It is a nice one Tom! What is the inscription? Is it a dedication?

Yes, lacking any other info on this one I'm guessing its a company inspector stamp - "company" - of the koshirae maker.

In addition to the shinsa response, here's an additional reason we are seeing registered gunto coming our of Japan. It doen't expain them all, but likely accounts for a portion of them. Trystan found this page: "I found this article talking about the papered semi-forged(Nontraditional made) blade(Gunto),it's in Japanes . http://www.eiwado.co.jp/inquiry2.html 半鍛錬の軍刀でも親族の遺品等であった場合には特例の処置もあるようですので各都道府県教育委員会に問い合わせてみましょう。 Roughly transilated :If you have a semi-forged(Nontraditional made)sword it was once belong to family member who died in war, and then it will be treated specially ,please contact local Education Committee. So that might explain why some showa to got the registered. Some one says： 昭和26年至33年之間，以陣亡將士代表紀念品「遺骨代」為名目，申請登錄之各式軍刀不在少數。但昭和33年之後，便修法不再發給這類刀劍登錄許可了。 Between Showa 26-33 year1951-1958 , Many Gunto were registered as memento of the fallen soldiers (Subject "the remains of the bones". After Showa 33 year 1958, Goverment change the law, no longer issued the sword registeration license to these nontraditional made gunto ." Original post (#294) here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/page-10

Yes, that may explain why swords are coming OUT of Japan with registration, but guys still have difficulty bring swords INTO Japan. Great link Trystan, thanks!

Denis, Thanks for the new photo. I'm learning to be as specific as I can with my records, so can you verify I have the two right:

It looks like I haven't kept this thread up to date with the discussion on the Mysterious W Stamp thread, found here: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/19390-the-mysterious-w-stamp/page-3. Thomas has discovered a WWII document that seems to indicate the "W" is really inverted and is a double chevron, or yamagata, indicating a "midway/halfway" inspection. As the stamp is found on such varied items as blades, guns, and shovels, it does seem to point to the true meaning of the stamp on these blades. I hesitate to fully buy into it 100% as the vast majority of the blade stamps are in fact a W when the blade is held pointy-end up as you do when reading mei. There are a rare few upside-down W's as this one on Denis' blade, so I don't know. In support of the W being a yamagata, it would fit the scenario where Mantetsu was ordered to send 5,500 unfinished blades to the Tokyo Arsenal. The W does seem to be coming from blades put out in the Tokyo area. Speculating here - a Tokyo inspector receiving the unfinished blades could have stamped the "halfway" inspection mark on them, saying they were acceptable to go on to the the finishing stage by their arsenal workers.

Denis, Thanks for the new blade numbers! Both yours are definitely "Te" I don't have pics of Edward's, and have PM'd him to see if I can get them (I wasn't keeping good records back then!), so we'll see if his was Mi or Te. Could I please get the pics of the other side of the nakago of yours? And I'd REALLY like to get the pics of the Nan stamps, too. For clarity - does the picture with the fittings numbered 168 go with serial number 567? and the 20 with 337? As to the fittings, I honestly don't know if Mantetsu had fitters working right in the factory. The Mantetsu blades are found in SO many differing koshirae that I feel they were shipped out in bare-blade form to everyone who was ordering them, to arsenals, to outfitters, etc. But that is an area of the operation that is a great unknown (as far as I know). On a final note, your blade marked 168 (by the fitters) has the "W" stamp upside-down looking more like the yamagata, or chevron, we have been discussing. Most are "upright" and look like a W, like your other blade. That's still a mystery.