Bruce Pennington

LOL!!! I feel your pain! I've been in your shoes on a number of issues. In the end, they're just opinions, as none of us can ever know for a fact.

Trystan posted this on the "Arsenal Stamps" thread because of the hotstamp on the nakago. Anyone recognize it, or have an idea of it's meaning? The dirk itself seems to have been shortened from the tip. Ohmura-san's example is quite a bit longer, and from this picture, you cans see the blade is much shorter than the saya.

Do you mean this, John? I see why it made you think of it, but it doesn't appear to be the same.

I am in the process of cleaning up the Showa/Seki/Star discussion on the Stamps Doc and in recent emails with Richard Fuller, have received from him a chart. Richard surveyed over 900 oshigata (wow!) and discovered that ALL star-stamped blades in the database observed were dated. Question - does anyone have actual examples (or oshigata) showing the non-dated, but star-stamped blades discussed in item 2 below: George Trotter provided the following: "From the above, it seems that true gendaito appear with 1. tosho mei and small logo stamp, eg "saka", and "na" etc (eg Ichihara Nagamitsu with "saka"). 2. Blades with mei (no date?) and star stamp made "on-site". 3. Blades with mei, date and star-stamp made "off-site" by Rikugun Jumei Tosho." You'll see his data in the center column of this chart: "DATED SHŌWA BLADES WITH TANG STAMPS Compiled from approx 920 shōwa period oshigata. (Many oshigata are stamped but are not included because they are undated. The Shō and Seki stamps are, by far, the most numerous. Star stamped blades always seem to be dated." (from Richard Fuller) Japanese sword stamps-4.doc

Trystan, thanks! Do you know the meaning of the hotstamp? It isn't present on the examples found on Ohmura's page.

You are right about the oddities. Never say Never nor Always when it comes to gunto!

Agree with Ed. The mark is just where someone hit the peg with a sharp edge to wedge the mekugi into place. You should be able to tap/push it out from the other side.

Wolf, Your specualaion is spot-on. Dawson shows the emblem as the Manchuoko Navy patrol. The style handle is of a shore patrolman. Dawson's similar blade design has a Japanese patrolman emblem, but on the next page, he shows your emblem on a Manchuoko naval officer sword:

Here's a couple of my real ones Ron

Boy, they are getting better at the Kokura stamp!

Reid, To be fair on value we’ll need to know and see a little more. The left one is a Type 32, but is a bit unusual as the palm of the grip isn’t crosshatched. Could be a repair piece. These tend to run in the $400 range. The shorter one appears to have a real fighting blade in it. Price could hinge on knowing who made it. We’d need to see pictures of the nakago (tang).

It might even be a Polish replica. Steve was showing some Polish examples a while back that were quite good!. As you suspected, the stamps are an attempt, but not right. The serial number is way too high also.

I agree that it was most likely post-war hobby project, since the tsuka is army and the saya parts are navy. There are documented examples of kaigunto with white same' and army-style leather saya cover over 1 haikan (ashi) like used on land with joint forces, but all the metal fittings were kai. My view on the value of this is a little broader than most. These are real WWII era parts made by Japanese hands in shops for the war. As such, I believe they all deserve to be preserved. Like the gunto with Bubba paint jobs, or other mods, it is still "the life of the gunto" (ok, Koshirae) and many preserve them even in their bubba condition.

Dang, good catch Neil. What do you make of it?

Thanks Austus, I have one already.

Brian - I've updated the Arsenal Stamps with this info, so you could delete this whole thread if you like. Thanks!

I am working to clean up the discussion on my Stamps Doc of the Showa and Seki stamps, and have discovered a 1937 Kanenori with Showa stamp on Ohmura's site, http://ohmura-study.net/211.html stamped and thanks to Lev (Death Ace) a 1937 Yoshimichi Showa stamped https://www.christie...38-details.aspx Additionally, on and NMB thread, is a 1939 Kanemichi Showa stamped http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/29719-sho-stamped-blade-dec-1939/?hl=%2B1939+%2Bshowa This is significant because, up to now, all discussions of the showa stamp put it in a narrow timeframe of '40-42. While it is certainly possible that the stamps were added at a later date than the blade was made (and the '39 has 2 mekugi ana, so the stamp could have been added at a refitting) they all appear, to me, to be the same age as the mei on each blade. This would be more in line with Ohmura's discussion claiming that the Seki Guild stopped using their seki stamp in '39 (because the shops working for Nagoya arsenal started using it) and were given the showa stamp to replace it. The dating is still off, though, as we can see on these blades, unless there is a totally unrelated reason someone created the showa stamp prior to the Govt edict that all non-traditionally made blades bear a stamp (which seems unlikely). This also presents a dating problem in that the oft discussed date for that Govt edict was 1938. Even if it were off by a year, and 1937 were the actual date, it would be surprising to see actual examples, like this, as in the Gunto-world it seems like it always takes a year or 2 from edict to street production. Sure wish we could get our hands on the actual Govt edict and/or the order giving the showa stamp to the Seki Guild!

That's it Lev! My search skills are so bad. And you found another one! So we have TWO 1937 blades Showa stamped - a Yoshimichi and a Kanenori Plus a 1939 Kanemichi.

Ha! Two times I've paid TWICE the market value on something I REALLY WANTED!

Here's a wild one! Don't know where I found it.

Very frustrated! I had found a page on Ohmura-san's site discussing the Seki and Showa stamps and saw that he had posted a 1937 (Showa 12) blade with a Showa stamp. Now I can't find it. Anyone with magical searching skills able to find that page for me? Brian, please feel free to delete this thread AFTER someone helps me!

You keep amazing records Stegel!

For the "What it's Worth" category - If memory serves me, RJT smiths were provided tamahagane by the army and local governers were to supply the charcoal. I wish I could remember where I read that, buy I've lost when and where that was. George Trotter and Chris (Vajo) specialize in RJT and could probably say.

Thanks Stegel! Jason's looks exactly like that one in Dawson! It even has the same sharkskin on the saya. I expect we'll see the same backstrap when Jason posts the pics. By the text description of the tassel attachment, this one is likely "1901 or later."

Thanks Dan! Jason, I tried to get a look at the backstrap of the handle. It seems there is a family mon (crest) on it. Also, a good picture of it would tell us quite a bit of the "rank" the sword was made for, as general officer backstraps have quite a bit of elaborate decoration.