Bruce Pennington

Dan, Certainly true, however the metal saya, with locking clip would have no need for a leather retention strap, unless, the spring was broken on the clip and this was a field repair to add a leather strap. Neil, your pics don't show the orientation. I'm assuming the added device is on top, outside of the body? Also, in the one in the pictures, does it have the release button? Seems that it would be blocked from use by the open dust cover.

Spotted another one. This time on the leather combat saya cover! Owned by Kenneth De Shepper, posted on Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Shin gunto) facebook:

Wow, Neil. Are the other ones on a diagonal like this one? Never seen anything like it! It doesn't seem to be lined up with an opening in the tsuba as one would expect if it were for leather retention straps. If they were only on gunto fitted with combat saya, I'd agree with steve above, but that wouldn't make sense on a standard metal saya.

Sooooo .... Hamfish, sounds like you've been trying?!?! Ha! Mental note to self "be careful what you buy from Hamfish!".

Matt, I particularly enjoy the stamps on gunto, and to my knowledge the answer to your question is unknown. There is an interesting page on Ryujin Swords that postulates the Showa stamp was only used on blades sold through the Officer Clubs, so theoretically, a blade sold through a private shop would not have one. Such a circumstance MAY also account for the lack of an arsenal stamp. Seki stamps before 1940 were a swordsmith guild mark, but once the mark was taken over by the Arsenal inspectors, like your 1943 blade, it wouldn't be there if the blade wasn't sold through the arsenal? The stamping process is one of the least known aspects of the gunto manufacturing world.

Ha, no I read it fine. It was a brain-fart that forced our 12 months into a 10 month cycle and came out with "December" as "10". A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

At first I thought it was katakana letters, but now I can see it's not. Maybe someone who reads Japanese can tell us what this is:

"10 month". Hey everybody knows that December, right!?

December 1943 is the only thing I can tell your with certainty!

It's kanji, but I don't know what it is.

Sorry to bother guys, buts what da heck is a "Mimi?"

Can you zoom in on this?

Yup, I see it now.

I see what you me - even the black of the tsuba is gone where it is exposed (still there where the seppa covers it). I have seen many kaigunto with the gold-giliding gone from the saya fittings, but I've never seen the tsuba black gone. This does seem intentional. It looks good that way, but not original.

Is there a smaller stamp at the top of the nakago nearer to the tsuba(handguard)?

Completely new to me, a contractor stamp on a Toyokawa navy arsenal kaigunto seppa. Thomas Appel Nillson proved the pic at the Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Shin Gunto) facebook page. He identified it as from the Gunto Sei Saku Jo company.

Wow Steve, how wild that they filed the number on the nakago jiri!!! And the 8 doesn't bother me since it means the gunto was assembled by the at the same place making these marks. Speaking of "place" - major lead in chacing down the organization, coming from Thomas Appel Nillson at the Military Swords of Imperial Japan (Shin Gunto) on facebook! He's posted pics using the same numbering system, from 2 swords. Both are kaigunto and have the Toyokowa Navy Aresenal stamp, but differing contractor stamps on the seppa (T.E.C and a new one - Gunto Sei Saku Jo). Considering my example is also Navy, I'm starting to think that it is the Aresenal using this method as they assemble the parts to the blade. The confusing thing right now, though, is YOURS which is Army! This could simply mean the practice was not isolated to a single arsenal. Hopefully more to come! ps: the hash marks are hard to see on the first one, but they are there

The standard ones were, but there was an upgrade that was gold/brass. Here's a pic from Ohmura's site: http://ohmura-study.net/732.html

Erwin, it's a beauty, and I've always loved the brass rising sun seppa too!

Erwin, The Seki stamp says that it's not traditionally made. I don't like the term "machine made" because officer swords were made buy people. Some used hydraulic hammers instead of apprentices slinging sledgehammers. The NCO gunto used the highest amount of mechanization.

Steve, I was actually looking for even ANOTHER thread where a guy was specifically asking for help with his roman markings, but I couldn't find it, and I had missed your post on that too! So, I REALLY LIKE your thread on the Parade/Dress sword and would rather leave it as is. Tacking on a discussion like this would be a "hyjack" and turn the discussion away from your investigation. I think it also makes re-finding old subjects harder when they are imbedded in threads of another topic. Would you mind if I copy your pics and add them? I sort-of hate to do it, though, because from the pics you've posted it looks like your markings on the nakaga are "IIII I/" which makes our mystery complicated again!

How about just the link, Steve? That's what I was looking for before I started this one. We'll just include it here.

And more:

Here's Dave's pics:

A while back, I discovered what seemed to be Roman Numerals on the edge of a habaki on my kaigunto with a Shinto blade. The "XXX I" matched the "31" on the seppa. But later, someone showed up with a similar habaki marked with "I I I I", and we all know that "IV" is Roman for 4. (BTW, if the guy with this habaki reads this PLEASE let me know, I'd love to post the pics!) So, a bit of mystery. UNTIL NOW! Dave (Pet Dragon) has recently posted a Type 94 with fittings, and nakago marked with "/II IIII" and "74" on the seppa. The latch had "七 IIII". When I showed my habaki to Dave, he realized the "/" was HALF of "X"! Whoever made these fittings modified the Roman Numeral system (or just didn't know it well enough) and was marking the items with their own system. I'd appreciate it if anyone else has fittings marked in this manner to post them. What I would really like to see is some company identification on the fittings that would tie this numbering system to a company.