Bruce Pennington

I think the date reads August 1836, but there's a kana after that "7" that doesn't make sense to me.

Dave, Robert did an excellent job summarizing our views on these. Thanks Robert! I have a few of these on file with this stamp/mark. Oddly, they all have the 'Manchurian' style fittings, whereas this one has 'Collaborator' (my term) with 'Japanese' style tsuba and, if legit (and it might be) a Gunzoku tassel. Interesting item. Edit: I should add the flower on both the tsuba and kabutogane is plum, not sakura, so still inline with Chinese/Manchurian made. Also, the machi (notches where the nakago meets the blade) are offset, not aligned, which is a Chinese thing. The blade is quite nice for one of these. Quite nice.

I have seen a small number of officer gunto with a screw/bolt. Seems like it would be a post-war addition to a sword missing the mekugi. But no way to know.

It certainly has potential. Sure wish we had one with a PX purchase certificate! It's the only thing that locked in the souvenir sword. At least the sword had the mish-mashed fittings. This dirk looks completely wartime legit.

This does have the appearance that suggests war kaigunto. At first, I was thinking something custom, but I can't say I've ever seen any without the daiseppa that weren't late war. The large seki stamp has been seen as late as 1944, so it's feasible. Masahiro must have been a prolific smith. I have 26 of his blades on file.

Another crescent moon in the ocean. Posted by @Baka Gaijin, HERE.

Wow, didn't see that, John! Doesn't even have the metal part that goes across the center. Rob, Take a couple minutes to read the article I wrote, that Rob posted a link to. It explains all your questions. The black color, and gold gilding, along with the blade are Navy. The metal fittings are Army style fittings. This is what puzzled collectors for decades. I believe it was intentional by the Tenshozan forge in making a sword that could not be called a war trophy, as it wasn't anything close to a regulation navy or regulation army gunto. The missing hole is seen on a few late-war swords, but this is the first one I've seen on a souvenir The stamped numbers on the fittings are quite normal for military and souvenir swords.

Nice find on the 49 gunto. Your guess is as good as any. This 49 has a legit looking company grade tassel. I have one other with tassel, too. Supports the idea they were being used by Japanese troops as opposed to collaborators. Although, I don't know for a fact what sort of tassels the collaborating units used. If anyone knows, please chime in.

Is it this one? "MASAKIYO (正清), Kyōhō (享保, 1716-1736), Satsuma – “Kiyomitsu” (清盈), “Kiyomitsu [single-leaf aoi crest] aratameru Mondo no Shō Fujiwara Masakiyo saimei” (清盈・改主水正藤原正清再銘, “Kiyomitsu – once again signed by Mondo no Shō Fujiwara Masakiyo after the change of name”), “Sasshū-jū Kageyoshi saku” (薩州住景吉作) “Sasshū-jū Fujiwara Masakiyo” (薩州住藤原正清), “Sasshū-jū Masakiyo” (薩州住正清), “[single-leaf aoi crest] Mondo no Shō Fujiwara Masakiyo” (主水正藤原正清), “[single-leaf aoi crest] Sasshū-jū Mondo no Shō Fujiwara Masakiyo” (薩州住主水正藤原正清), real name Miyahara Kiyo´emon (宮原清右衛門, the first name can also read Sei´emon), he also bore the first name Kakudayū (覚太夫), he studied under Maruta Sōzaemon Masafusa (丸太惣左衛門正房), in early years he signed with Kageyoshi (景吉) and Kiyomitsu (清盈), some sources list his early name also as Yoshikage (吉景), in the first month of Kyōhō six (1721), the eighth Tokugawa-shōgun Yoshimune (徳川吉宗, 1684-1751) invited the best smiths of the country to a sword forging contest to his Edo residence, the winners were besides of this Masakiyo Ippei Yasuyo (安代), Nobukuni Shigekane (信国重包) from Chikuzen, and the 4th generation Nanki Shigekuni (南紀重国), all of them were granted with the permission to engrave a single leaf of the Tokugawa aoi crest to their tangs, especially outstanding in this contest were Masakiyo an Yasuyo who enjoyed subsequently a veritable – 532 – program consisting of recommendations and orders, the honorary title Mondo no Shō (主水正) was granted to him on the 13th day of the seventh month of the same year (1721), he died on the sixth day of the sixth month Kyōhō 15 (1730) at the age of 61, he already focused on the Sōshū masters in his early years but the interpretations do not show the later typical ara-nie and mura-nie, the jigane is an excellently forged itame or ō-itame with ji-nie and chikei, masama appears in the shinogi-ji, the hamon is a gunome-midare, notare mixed with gunome or a notare-midare in nie-deki, in addition many sunagashi, kinsuji and ara-nie and/or mura-nie appear, also the Satsuma-typical imozuru can be seen, the yasurime are katte-sagari and later kiri, that means the angle of the file strokes gets more shallow over the years, in early years he signed with a rather irregular mei, regarding works of his later years, we are facing many daimei of Masachika (正近) or Masamori (正盛), however, there exists the accepted theory that the daimei of Masachika are executed larger than that of Masamori, jōjō-saku MASAKIYO"

There are several of us that search through forums, going back several years. Links often go dead after some time goes by and the pictures are lost to research. So, I prefer posting relevant photos to the discussion with an added link to the site for guys that want to know more.

As it should! Can't tell you if the kanji is Chinese or Japanese, but the blade is not Japanese.

Trystan, They were 2 separate swords. First I have more, if you like. I didn't have that "131" gunto, thanks Thomas!. The second one I posted is marked "31". Found on "Live Auction", no longer have actual link.

That would be expected as these were not made by Japanese smiths. They were made by Java locals. Thanks for the photos, Nicholas. Unless @BANGBANGSAN can give you more info, I don't think we really know anything about their operation. I only have 3 others on file with fittings, and they vary considerably. I suspect they used whatever they had available, manufacturing some themselves by the looks of them. One other has the ito material you describe: This other one has "31" stamped on the habaki

Yes, it's definitely one of the 8,700 souvenirs they made after the war. Dave, is there a photo of the other side of the nakago? Most of these have a painted number that I track.

Nicholas, Could I get some photos of the metal fittings, close-up, for the files. I like to keep a record of the Java swords.

Haven't watched the whole thing yet. Did they have attribution on the nakago of the tested or appraised blades?

Thanks John. This is not an area I study, so my opinion carries little significance at this point. But, I would think if they have been stamped by Suya and Nakano that they are wartime dirks. The one Richard Fuller is wondering about actually used celluloid for the sayajiri. He's initially calling it a late-war version, but wondering if it might be one of the souvenirs we've read about. Navy daggers with celluloid Fuller.pdf

Ron, Assuming there is no date on the other side? The showa stamp is an inspection/approval stamp of the Seki Cutlery Manufacturers Association. It is seen on blades with dates ranging from 1935 to 1942, with most of them dated 1940-41. Looks like it was initially sold on the civil market with civilian fittings, then outfitted with the leather cover when it was donated or sold to the Army for the war. Would have been used by an officer.

No, that’s another decades old urban legend. Simply because no one had been able to read the official World War II Japanese documents. You will see in Nick’s article that he has pulled up the actual wartime documents that assigned that color to the civil servants.

I'm asking for everyone who collects dirks to check for signs that it may be one of the 1,200 post-war souvenirs made by Tenshozan. I don't know how we would identify them. But Richard Fuller sent a request for any info we can come up with. Here's his message: "I have seen naval daggers with part plastic hilt and scabbard fittings. Obviously modelled on the normal metal fittings. Didn't take much notice of them and just labelled them as late war production. I would imagine that Tenshozan would have very little stores, or access to, real same (ray skin) for navy dagger hilts in 1946. I have one with normal gilded brass hilt fittings. Removable hilt. The crossguard and lower seppa are cut out for use with a spring clip although there is none, or provision for one, in the scabbard throat. The nodules on the grip covering are all small and of matching size which may indicate plastic rather than natural fish skin. Normal unsigned or stamped grooved blade. Dark brown leather over a non-magnetic 'metal' scabbard. Normal top scabbard fitting of thin gilded metal with opposing suspension rings. 'Plastic' lower mount modelled on the normal navy pattern. Could this be a post war Tenshozan production? However I would have thought they would put their anchor and circle stamp or the cross guard or number the blade to confirm legal production."

Oh, and for research/searh purposes, this blade has a Na and "30" stamped on the mune (posted over at Wehrmacht-awards)

Hi Gareth! Thanks for the added pics of the black painted tsuba/seppa. I'll add a link of this to the Black Painted gunto thread. There are no swords specific to the Navy landing forces. But they would have been navy swords, not army, which the Type 3, or Rinji seishiki model is. That is an urban legend that got started decades ago. The tassel, if indeed all brown, indicates this sword was carried by the civilian branch of the army called Gunzoku. They wore military uniforms with Gunzoku rank and carried swords commensurate with their rank. You can read about the Rinji model here: Unveiling the Rinji seishiki Sword 1940 and History of the Mislabeled Type 3 About the Gunzoku brown tassel: The all-brown Tassel

Here's one on a Kanemune blade, posted by @KB1107 HERE.

Found this one on this California Auctioneers auction

Thanks for the update, Ben. I don't really study the smiths, but he's RJT qualified and likely made nice blades. Since the one I have has a showa stamp, we can see he made both traditional and non-traditional blades. His rating was ryōkō no retsu. That was the one in the green below. Some of the other guys may be able to give you a sense of it's meaning. If you'll post a couple of clear, close-ups showing the hamon (temper line) we MIGHT be able to make a guess. shinpin no retsu (神品の列) Supreme masterworks kihin-jōi (貴品上位) Superior precious works kihin no retsu (貴品の列) Precious works jōko no jōi (上工の上位) Superior master jōkō no retsu (上工の列) Master ryōkō no jōi (良工の上位) Superior skilled artisan ryōkō no retsu (良工の列) Skilled artisan