Bruce Pennington

I've run into the same issue, John, in my charts. I've just grouped the year-only dates at the beginning (or end) of the dates with months.

Good one, Nazar, thank you! An interesting one, too, with that stamped "119." Normally we see this on wartime blades, although I do have four others with stamped numbers. I'm tempted to think this was a war surplus blade, but that unfinished nakago with heat coloration sure looks like something made by the souvenir operation.

@Bruno and I have been discussing whether RS blades found in standard (light tan) fittings (originally, we were discussing late-war blades, but expanded) were tempered, had hamon, both or neither, and whether there was a progression of cutting edge treatments over time. I feel like this has been discussed in various random threads, and would like to consolidate our knowledge on a dedicated Type 3/Rinji/etc thread. I re-read Ohmura's page on them - Type 3 Report (Japanese only) - and Nick Komiya's pages and found nothing that specified how the standard rinji blade was to be made. Ohmura's report simply stated (English translation by Chrome): "The characteristics of the new saber are, first of all, the raw materials and the forging method - the first condition is that it does not break, does not bend, does not spill the blade, and has good cut, and in the case of hand-to-hand combat, it is hard (does not bend and has good cut) and is soft (does not break and does not spill the blade) In order to satisfy the contradictory conditions, the part that uses mechanical power is folded into the ancient Japan sword style that forges Japanese steel. 2. Shape and dimensions - pickaxe construction, the magnificent shape of the flower surface warping, first of all, it is close to the ancient Aishu tradition, and the cutting edge, the width of the body, the radius of the ground meat and the harmony of the warp are measured, and both the "thrust " and the slash are combined. In addition, the meat is sufficiently preserved, and the layering of the small pickaxe and the crucrum of the pine needle horn is thickened to give it a tense appearance of being beaten. The dimensions of the blade are 2 shaku 1 inch, 2 shaku 2 cun, and 2 shaku 3 inch, and the weight is 195 to 225 kg." also "The results of the experiment of Major Morinaga and other assistant professors of the Army Toyama School are excellent as shown on the left ▲ Straw cutting = When cutting two bales of straw soaked in water for a day and night, the response is light and the cutting taste is good, the average slashing amount is 170 % (roughly the same as the human torso), and there is no abnormality in the blade ▲ Green bamboo slash = 30-35 mm diameter green bamboo is put in the heart of a bale of straw and soaked in water for a day and night. ▲ Iron helmet slash = When cutting an iron helmet covered with cotton cloth soaked in water, a part of it is cut twenty millimeters long (conventional ones are generally not cut), and only a slight blade snail is created, and there is no other abnormality." I don't think you can make a sword cut steel helmets unless it's tempered. The "do not bend or break" definitely means it had to have been tempered. I have tons of RJT blades in upgraded fittings, and several non-star blades (mostly by RJT qualified smiths) with stamped numbers, which obviously had hamon of all styles. But I don't track standard RS gunto if they have no stamps. I'll go through my files of stamped blades, in RS fittings, to try building a survey of likely conditions - temper line? hamon? change over time? But could use everyone's help searching NMB for blades in standard fittings to build an observed consensus about the question at hand.

Thanks, John, I see what you mean. I corrected the file and chart.

Yeah, rechecked everything and no SE 1144. Must have made a mistake. I corrected the chart, now, thanks. Have 21 on file: Manchurian Rinji Seishiki (MRS) Fittings Date Serial Number Notes Source 1. 1938 Winter N 156 SMR IJASWORDS, NMB 2. 1942 Spring Unknown Sohei swords/ebay 3. 1944 Spring SE 489 Ren ebay 4. 1944 Spring SE 1029 Ren 5. 1944 Spring SE 1066 Ren 6. 1944 Spring SE 1251 7. 1944 Spring SE 1310 Ren Leather Saya Cvr 8. 1944 Spring SE 1344 Ren 9. 1944 Spring SE 1413 Ren Conway, NMB 10. 1944 Spring No serial number Ren Gold Saya Worthpoint 11. 1944 Spring SE 2430 Ren 連工 12. 1944 Spring SE 2431 Ren 連工 Matt Jerrel, NMB 13. 1944 Spring SE 2575 Ren 連工 14. 1944 Spring SU 10 Ren 連工 15. 1944 Spring ? 199 Ren 連工 16. 1945 I 88 Mumei Conway, NMB 17. 1945 I 142 Unknown Fuller 18. 1945 I 164 Mumei St Croix swords 19. 1945 I 165 Mumei Remilitaria.com 20. 1945 I 285 Mumei ND blade only Steve, NMB 21. 1945 I 1170 Mumei ND

Mike, I didn't go through all 118, but in the 30 or so I found 4. Here's one, one of the two that came with the PX souvenir letter. Signed Hiratoshi, with no painted number: It is an odd thing. The nakago doesn't have an ana there, so can't imagine the purpose of the peg. I have one other 95: Mei Date Anchor Fittings Kabu finish Jiri Finished? # Source 88. Takeyasu ND Small Standard Texture Yes, shaped 95 Michaelr, NMB 89. Mumei ND Large Standard sarute Unknwn No 95 Smallsword; ebay

August '43 Kanehide Oct '43 (don't have one legible of full nakago) Aug '44

Ricky, You have what was originally a very nice Japanese Naval officer's sword, or kaigunto, with upgraded stingray skin covered saya (scabbard). The signature is "Tenshozan made" a shortened version of the normal "Tenshozan Tanrenjo made" or Tenshozan Forging Workshop. The blade is stainless steel, and the anchor stamp is of the Navy's Tenshozan inspector. I assume there is no date on the other side? I only have one other blade with this shortened mei. The hash marks match the stamped numbers 223. Unusual method of writing it, though, as they actually say "twenty two three". Usually you will see "two two three" in the hash marks. Nothing special, just interesting. I'm not sure about the small stamp at the end. It could be "11" or the Japanese 2 "=", or a square. Hard to say.

Excellent, Michael, that's a beauty! I may be wrong, but I believe that is Takeyasu. Here's an example that is easier to read: Hard to tell from your photo the size of the anchor stamp. Can you give a measure of it's diameter?

John, I don't know if you have all the Kanehide I have on file. In addition to the ones on this thread, I have 6 with painted numbers. Here's a list. If you don't have some or all, let me know and I'll post them: Kanehide (star stamped) Aug '43 Black/Red paint Oct '43 Black/Red paint Aug '44 Green/Blue Aug '44 Green/Blue Mar '44 Red/Blue May '44 Blue A90/90 @JohnC

Ditto! I'd love to add that one to my star stamped list, @Paul G

I don't see 1144 in the chart or my files. Do you have a reference? I have a 1344 on file. Possibly when it was first found we saw the large strokes and missed the smaller strokes of the 3?

Ah, I see. This one being - 42224

That's a good point. Can't say I've ever seen a legit mei placed with the shinogi running smack through the center. Certainly a little overlap, but not like this.

Are you referring to a painted number?

Thanks Conway, I've got that one down as "1143". There is a pretty good space between the two ones.

I think you're right, Conway. The blade looks Japanese. Very faint 'feather' yasurime visible on the undated date side if you zoom in. Highly buffed, acid washed. The fittings look like late war, low quality stuff, and the mei .... I have seen discussions of legit old blades with ugly mei, so I know they exist, but we'd need some of the nihonto guys like @Ray Singer to give us a look. When you zoom in, you can see the mei was chiseled in with many small taps.

Agreed. Stamped numbers on habaki, poor imitation fittings, Damascus steel.

Agreed. Yoshimichi was the smith, dated March 1945. Excessively buffed. Rinji seishiki model (contingency model; commonly called Type 3). Late war tsuka, not as good a quality as you can find with other Rinji gunto.

This one was #7 on the first thread, and the smith is Yoshimitsu. The blade looks legit, but someone has done an acid wash to highlight the hamon.

#7 looks like Yoshimitsu

Jake, Are these follow-up photos of the swords in your first post with all the nakago? Do they match the order in the first post?

Type 98 Japanese officer sword. That's all that can be said from those photos.

There is hamon visible in that last photo of the kissaki, so probably highly buffed.