Bruce Pennington

Mark, What I see looks like WWII legit gunto. Can you post a pic of the nakago?

Thanks Mark. With the corrosion, it's hard to say for sure, but I think there is a Showa stamp. I have dated blades from him, on file, made in 1940, '41, and '42. Most Showa-stamped blades were made in 1940 - 1941.

Good catch Trystan. I’ll have to correct my files.

I'm the worst guy to ask, as I don't study that stuff. The pics are fuzzy when zoomed, but I think I see hada in the steel. I don't see the famous black spots in the hamon of an oil quench, but the artificial polish might have obscured that. Mostly, I don't think the focus of the photo is clear enough to say. But again, I'm really not the one to ask.

This was in Plimton's book. No blade shown: This one leads into the group of gunto with varing amounts of mixed officer/NCO parts. I've seen several NCO blades with 95 tsuka/tsuba in officer saya, like this on from Plimpton. More puzzling are the Type 95s with signed blades that would normally be in officer fittings. I have 2 of these on file. Personally, though, I'd be more likely to believe these were custom blades paid for by an NCO with money, who wanted a quality blade in his rig. The shortages that drove officers to buy Type 95s were blade shortages, not fittings shortages. An example: Masatsugu, Jun 1945, posted by @drb 1643 Another Masatsugu, April 1945 from @mdiddy

More from the files: Posted by @The_Derz

I forgot about this thread until Sam - @Scogg - came up with another example. The early (copper handle era) number on this one and another from @Stegel falls inline with the era discussed in Nick Komiya's discussion. I don't know what date range the one on the OP phots falls in, but there were shortages throughout the war that would have caused a young officer to resort to this way of obtaining a sword. Sam's find: Stegel's gunto

How interesting! Now I'm curious to know what exactly that material is that is under the ito. In the first photo, at top, you can see it's been torn and missing as you near the tsuba. We know from a repair team report that many swords were repaired by them in the field, and the item most damaged was the tsuka (handle). This could be one of them.

Very unusual for an army sword to have the black ray skin. That is normally seen on Navy swords. However, in the past year, I have seen two or three others like this. Must’ve been a custom request.

Just for the trivia interest - The earliest observed Showa-stamped blade was dated 1935, and it was a Kanetaka.

I would say it is the larger Seki stamp. The small one is often hard to see, it's so small.

In March, '45, they ordered changes to kaigunto to save on precious resources and speed production. The second haikan (ashi) was elliminated as well as the gold gilding.

It would be above the mei like this

Just a guess, but I'm thinking the hashed "23" was the original number that matched the numbered original fittings. "3" would be the fittings number of the current set. The 2 ana (holes) mean the blade was refitted to the current koshirae and had been in something else originally. It's a fairly common thing to see.

Great, Steve, thanks! So no star?

Hi Ray, I was only looking, and talking, about his title and hadn't seen the description. But it is easy to see by his description that he still hardly knows anything about WWII Japanese swords. He doesn't even know that officers had to buy all their gear and weapons. Only NCO's were issued swords. The first half is true, but the second half shows that he doesn't know what a tsunagi is and what they were used for.

Looks to me like "清宮 (Kiyomiya)", but I'm not very good at these, yet. It's the weekend, but the guys will come along eventually. You can read up on the Type 97 Kaigunto here: Navy Officer Sword - Ohmura and here: Launch of the 1937 Navy Officer Gunto - Nick Komiya

And the star blades, gendaito, go for higher prices when the seller knows what he has. Reposting @SteveM's comment about the "Toshin" for ease: "In this case, Tōshin (東神) is a part of a longer name 日本刀東神鍛錬所 Japanese Sword Tōshin Forge. "Eastern Deity" is the direct, literal translation of the two characters that comprise the word tōshin, but in this case I think its just a name, and it alludes to the smith being affiliated with that particular forge. " I have one other Masakuni on file, used "Toshin" in the mei, and 3 Masashige. Interested in hearing from Mal on this. [edited. Had 2 Masakuni, but turned out they were the same sword, posted by 2 different guys] And waiting to hear back on the star and mune number. I have another Masashige with the number "71". Could not confirm it's location as it came from the text describing the blade on a sale page. Steve, Posting links to Nick Komiya's revelations about the history, making, and marketing of the Rinji seishiki, or Type 3, or Contengency model, Type 44, Marine Landing Sword. For those who don't follow links, the executive summary: Designed in 1938, using a loophole in the Type 98 Emperor authorization, to be a cheaper, more durable sword than the 98. Never was given an official designation (however turns out NONE of the officer swords were actually called "Type XX" by the military). Marketed in 1940, didn't really catch on until 1943 and on. An Army sword, not Navy, not Marine. True Significance of the Contengency Model sword Mistakenly Called the Type 3 Unveiling the Rinji-seishiki - 1940

It is simply a tsunagi - a wooden blade to hold the fittings while the actual blade rests in shirasaya. There is NO evidence the Japanese made wooden blades for swords late in the war. Zero. Even to pretend it was a tsunagi made late in WWII is silly unless the tsunagi nakago is dated.

We have not seen any old blades with stamps. We know that area collectors would gather swords from smiths on a regular basis and ship them off to arsenals, where they were inspected and stamped. Separately, there were ongoing programs to buy or get donations of old family swords for the war effort. These swords were often simply fitted with leather covers, and refitted with a varying degree of military parts. None of the examples I have seen had been stamped. So, while we don't have documents that clearly delineate stamping requirements & practices, I've seen no evidence to support the idea that older blades were stamped when accepted. As to the more extensive mei, we have never read nor heard a reason some smiths varied their mei wordage, but there were several that had quite a bit of variation in length of mei.

Are these yours, Alex? If so, love to see the nakago if signed.

Mark, I don't see a date. Can you get a close, clear shot of those marks at the top of the nakago on the signed side? Might be a Showa stamp. If so, I can get you a date estimate.

Martin, Yes, there were several methods of making blades, but once the blade was finished, it's pretty darn impossible to know which one was used. Some blades will literally say on the nakago, but most do not. In broader terms, you can distinguish between zoheito, NCO, stainless steel, and with some telltale signs, gendaito vs showato. At that point, the desirability varies by the tastes of the collector. In general, traditionally made blades go for higher prices, which indicates desirability, but even the humble Type 95 NCO is going for prices equal to, and sometimes higher, than many officer blades. Mantetsu blades are slightly more rare than standard officer swords, so they earn a higher price, usually. It all comes down to what interests you.

Joe, Your kaigunto appears to be an example of the late-war swords that were made under new rules, reducing the specs, due to shortages. Here is a post from another thread - Recently discovered by NIck Komiya at Warrelics: "I don't know how relevant it is to the discussions here, but the navy also issued a "Last Ditch" Rinji spec directive for officer swords on 27th March 1945. Directive Number 54 said "1: Gilding, Gold Colored Metal and Cherry branch engravings are to cease, 2:Sarute not to be attached, 3:Only one Haikan (scabbard ring) to be present, 4: Use of animal skins to be minimized, 5: Push button type locks to be changed to tie-cord type, 6: Scabbards to be wrapped in tree bark and be finished with black lacquer. By that time, the navy had lost its ships and most members got deployed as land troops, so it is understandable if the above Rinji spec got to be associated with the NFL. The PX sword discussed here seems to consist mainly of parts matching the description above, but with some gold colored parts thrown in to beautify them. I asked for clarification on the fuchi design, and he said: "In Japanese, point 1 is 「金鍍金、金色金属、枝桜毛彫及彫刻ヲ用ヒザルコト」, which says no gold color nor engraved or relief adornment, so a "plain Jane".　This directive is mentioned in the Ohmura site as well as Wikipedia, so it should be common knowledge to Gunto collectors already." So this explains the odd-ball navy gunto with one haikan (ashi). I'm not talking about the souvenir sold with mixed army/navy fittings, but actual navy gunto. If memory serves, I saw one in combat saya with single haikan. If anyone has an example, I'd love to get it posted here." There are other examples on this thread: