Swordlook

Could be completely wrong.... Feel free to correct me as I do not speak or read Japanse. A look on what I believe to be a Japanese auction site shows a lot of cheap swords. Some seem new. http://page23.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o135237261

Guido - Can you please point out what you see that makes the hamon look weird or from powder steal? Thanks

Jean, Thanks for that clarification. I was wondered how or where Aoi was getting their rankings as they often do not match Fujishiro. Out of curiosity do others agree or follow this kind of ranking by NBTHK kanteisho? Thanks

Darcy – Thank you for breaking you silence as I have enjoyed reading this post as well as (I think) all of your archived posts (a few times mind you). You should setup an email or web base service to educate newbies... Kind of like a quasi-online Kantei service. Either people could submit sword pictures or you could pick them yourself. Charge a fee to tell them what you see. When I first started trading stocks I signed up to Jim Cramer’s Action Alerts Plus website where you could watch him trade stocks. He would send out detailed emails educating you on why he was buying certain stocks, what he was looking for and just his overall market theory. Things like that are sometimes very hard to get out of books. Can’t hurt a guy for trying…???? Ken

Funny that last picture almost looks like a tsugi-nakago.

You are probably correct that it isn’t attributed to a specific smith. I assumed that since they mentioned Nio Kiyutsuna and not just Sue-Nio that it was. Just a newbie here but the Nio seems to be tighter, brighter and more consist to me than the Yamoto Sizu (possibly just the pictures). If you don’t mind me asking a couple follow up questions? · What years are consider to be the hard or best years for Juyo papers? · Possibly a big question but what are the best or mainline schools? Ken

Hi John, Thanks for the reply and the provided info. This was one of my problems also as the listing seems to be very vague in comparison to others on his site. Not sure if that’s on purpose or just in haste to get it listed. It would appear to be a rare sword no matter which Kamakura Kiyotsuna smith produced it. The sword seems to have had a very good steward over the years as it seems in very good condition (possibly a little on the short side?). Ken

http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumei-nio-kiyutsuna-2 I’m an neophyte… but this sword appears very nice. Having a hard time finding a lot of information on Niō Kiyotsuna. Anyone have a good place to start? Thanks,

I would first like to thank everyone for their detailed responses. I have been able to look up a number of these smiths to review their work. Pete, Thanks for your response and if you have a list of the highest ranked schools please let me know. Also, I agree with following statements that you made... “I assume that New NMB Member Ken opened it with sincere curiosity. Likewise, our friends who researched their books and reported the judgements presented by their preferred Japanese authorities, gave Ken - and the rest of us - some respectable - grist.”. “I also think it is all right for experienced collectors to share their personal judgements of who is "good".”. “Use these lists to figure out what SORTS of things sword afficianados go for. What variables are approved. While doing that you will gain skills in recognizing flaws and just plane unskilled production. That is the process that builds the ability to see and appreciate "good" stuff.". This is in a nutshell why I ask for a list… For studying purposes. I did also however want a list of high ranking smiths as I have spent considerable time reading archived posts and sale listings on here (as well as other sites) and it does seem to be important to the collector base. A smiths Fujishiro, Toko Taikan or Hawley rating is often listed or discussed. It also was mentioned more than once that some sword consumers are brand conscious. IMHOP it seems that it isn’t “all hooey!” as everyone often talks about it! And therefore I would like to understand it before making purchases. I understand that overall sword quality is probably the largest driving price factor but most beloved is when that’s paired with a high Fujishiro rating. If I may get lost in the (philosophical) weeds for a second here… I believe you are correct that in absolute reality, Fujishiro, Toko Taikan, Hawley, or Joe Blow (not SwordGuyJoe ????) do not matter in the least. Nor does the debate of Joey Heatherton vs Cheryl Tiegs but in everyday life of saving accounts, retirement funds, collage loans, mortgages and the like, it does matter…. I have to know because it may contribute to knowing what my downside risk on investment is. What kind of risk or loss I’m I going to sustain or willing to sustain just because I like it? I can decide that I want to frame-off restore a Pinto and have it painted bright orange because I like it. A full restoration would probably cost around $75K to $100K. The actual going rate for this car is probably going to be way less than half that amount. That’s a big loss just because I like it! My point using your example is, that (in everyday life and financially speaking) Joey Heatherton is prettier than Cheryl Tiegs not because I say so but because a majority of people say so. This may or may not change what I personally like, buy or feel but (IMHOP) to ignore it could be costly. Ken

Thanks Pete! That clears it up.

Thanks Pete. I have looked at these in the past. Maybe I'm mistaken but in your first link isn't that juyo paper just an older version? Is this Aoi sword Juyo or Tokubetsu Juyo? As its only listed as juyo. http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-chikuzen-koku-fukuoka-ju-koretsugu50th-nbthk-juyo-paper Thanks.

Could anyone please help me with how to tell the difference between Juyo & Tokubetsu Juyo papers? The visual differences between hozon, tokubetsu hozon and Juyo are well documented but I haven't been able to find much on how to tell a Tokubetsu Juyo paper. It appears its possibly the same paper as juyo with perhaps just different info/punch dots? Thanks, Ken

First I would like to thank everyone for all the help! It has been very educational thus far. When researching swords I often read things like, so and so is one of the top ranked smiths of the.... I know Fujishiro is one of the most used sources for smith rankings but I was wondering if anyone had or could possibly point me in the direction of a short list of the best or most sought after smiths from each period? For example I have read that, Suishinshi Masahide, Taikei Naotane, Kiyomaro and Sa Yukihide are the top Shinshinto smiths. Does anyone have a list for the top in each period? Whether it be the top three or top ten. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Ken

Jean & John, I really couldn't agree more. This was my other reason in posting this as I couldn't see what he was seeing... Why the thought of Juyo? I thought I was missing something. This blade looks to be mediocre to me. I even thought that possibly it just wasn't in the best polish so I reread the discerption but it says, "The blade was polished by high rank polisher". Perhaps it is just the pictures... Ken

I just mention it as his opinion seems to be highly regarded on this site. I don’t have the cash at this point but it might be a good risk if you got it for the asking price. I believe cost are around $2K for shinsa if passed? And only a fraction if its rejected.

Just a newbie here but isn’t, 1,200,000 Yen a great deal for this sword? Or I’m I missing something… http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeisue-sa

Gasam - Thanks I have read this a few times in the past. The problem with it is it uses very simple straight forward examples. I more curious about the subtle examples as in pictures. Seattle - That’s another good point… How does one discern if a flaw is from over polishing if the blade is still thick and healthy? Picture 2 is of newer (Kanbun era) sword. My assumption would be that it probably wouldn’t have been over polished(?) The hada looks to be very tight everywhere else other than on the SHINOGI-JI. I thought that areas rough hada were indication of a poorer quality forging? This however didn’t affect the sword from getting Juyo. Am I making a newbie mistake by thinking this?

I have been researching “KIZU” and would appreciate any input on the following pictures. What I trying to distinguish is what is actually considering a flaw and what is not. Thanks in advance for everyone’s help! Ken

I guess buying swords with old papers should be added to the list? http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12646-advices-for-newbies-buyers-rules-of-thumb/

Hey Alex, No hard feelings here… I get it! ???? In the process of reading Markus Sesko book on tameshigiri. I learned a lot from my last post about the Goto Gozaeman cutting test blade I posted. If you have the time any insights about this blade would be great! Hello Brian, I have read both sides to older shinsa papers… I take it you believe there not that reliable? - Ken

I think everyone is familiar with Komonjo. He has nice cutting test blade on eBay. I think Chikuzen Fukuoka Koretsugu is a fairly high ranking smith as well as the tester Yamano Nagahisa. Anyone have any thoughts on this blade for the neophyte over here? Thanks! http://www.ebay.com/itm/SA739-Japanese-Samurai-Sword-NBTHK-Koretsugu-Katana-Cutting-Test-69-0-CM-/161869284803?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

Great link Alex. Thanks! To the point about price… Members have suggested that most collectors would walkway from a blade with the above issues and that the resale value would be closer to $6K! Original make offer price was over $20K. Which brings me to another thought… (if they are even remotely close on the $6K price) There sure could have been some poor-sap on the wrong side of a bad $10K+ mistake! I understand it’s a free market and some may rejoice in this persons mistake but I myself start to seriously question the ethics of such a transaction. Unless of course the seller know nothing of the above and he himself overpaid and is taking a loss. Which I suppose is conceivable but possibly not completely plausible. -Ken S

Thanks everyone for the advice on this… Most have indicated that the price point should be well below the current price of $14K (some suggesting a lot below ) So I will continue my search… I have listed out some of the concerns that members have brought to my attention if anyone is interested. The sword seems has a high amount of watchers so possibly others have similar questions. · Shortened Shinshinto blade (undesirable amongst collectors) · No signature/date or loss of · Cutting test has possibly (probably?) been added to make the blade more marketable (i.e expensive) · Cutting test performed by Goto Gozaeman who is basically unknown · Does not have paperwork from well recognized organization (NBTHK, NTHK) · At current price point sword should carry Tokubetsu Hozon

Stephen thanks for your help!

Thats my question how accurate are Kinzogan-mei? And is a strange that it isn’t singed (Kao) by the appraiser? I thought that the Honami family would also sign with their given Kao when they did this?