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Everything posted by SteveM
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I'd be interested to see if there are other examples of the 作之 coming after the location instead of the smith's name. Seems unusual.
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Probably a good time to say again that the sword is always more important than the inscription. A funky inscription only slightly mars the quality of the sword, and often it is a defacement that can be remedied (by removing it, basically). So bear in mind my comments are in relation to the engravings only, and I am not enough of a sword enthusiast to comment on the sword itself. Also, there are a lot of funky signatures out there, and one strange kanji, one oddly-placed fragment, one obscure usage, doesn't attract my attention too much, other than as a curiosity for future reference. But when a number of these anomalies appear, it usually doesn't bode well for the authenticity of the signature. So, with that throat-clearing, first the good news: 濱 is the old version of 浜, so Jussi's post above is a ray of hope extended to Davis. 江府 indeed refers to Edo/Tokyo, which is in Musashi province, so that is another thing that helps support this line of inquiry. (江 may indeed be pronounced e or kō, but I think when it is combined with 府 it is always kōfu. This pronunciation exists today in the Tokyo ward of 江東区 kōtō-ku). I still find it weird that the saku and the kore are following the location, but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen something odd like this. So... unusual and suspicious in my opinion, but could be overlooked if everything else is in order. (Perhaps the engraver was affecting some kind of kanbun - Chinese style - usage??) For the cutting-test signature, there is another possibility for the problematic kanji after 二ツ胴, and that is 裁断 (saidan), but the kanji on the sword looks nothing like 裁 or the archaic version of 裁 that is seen on swords (so archaic that I can't find it in the IME...will look for it later, basically it is a combining of 戈 with 隹 - for the kanji buffs out there you can see a good example here http://kourindo.sakura.ne.jp/yamano.html ) Edit: Found it - 截 Regarding the balance, you can see the four kanji up until 二 are biased towards the left of the shinogi. After that they are biased to the right. The final 之 leans back to the center. This feels and looks sloppy to me, particularly with the strange kanji there. Edit: Its the cutting test balance that looks bad to me. The overall balance of the signature on the other side looks OK. Finally, using a sword from an obscure smith for a cutting test and subsequent inscription seems to be a stretch of the imagination. Particularly if this was a very late Edo period sword. So, any one of these by themselves I think can be excused. Taken in totality, it gives the impression that someone was trying to tart up the sword.
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I think you are thinking of hanko or inkan. Kao don't normally use tensho. Historically they used sōsho (草書) but its such an individualized thing I don't think you could call it any particular style - not in Edo times, at least. The Japanese wikipedia site is very informative on this, but unfortunately the English mirror entry for kao is very weak. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%8A%B1%E6%8A%BC There is a video that might be of help in the middle of the site here http://www.geocities.jp/whiteprince1jp/kou.html Another Japanese site has a depiction of current prime minister Shinzo Abe's kao, and it might help to visually understand it (although I couldn't verify that this is Abe's actual kao). https://argusakita.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/%E3%82%B5%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E7%BD%B2%E5%90%8D%E3%81%AF%E7%B7%B4%E7%BF%92%E3%81%8C%E5%A4%A7%E4%BA%8B%EF%BC%9F/sign-abe/ If, after all of this, you are still in the dark, give a shout. Edit: Try this site, it might be more useful. http://www.hanko-concierge.com/14375399383149
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於江府作之濱田正行 Oite Kōfu saku kore Hamada Masayuki 於千住二ツ胴囗之 Oite Senju Futatsu Dō ? kore It may be surplus to your requirements, but I think both the signature and the cutting test engraving are a bit problematic. The overall balance of the cutting test signature is a bit funky, plus the odd kanji after 二ツ胴 almost seems like a mistake, as if somebody tried to engrave something but gave up halfway through, or tried to change it. Normally one would expect 落し (otoshi) or 切落とし (kiri-otoshi) after the futatsu-do. The smith also seems to be so obscure that he's invisible to Google. And usually the saku kore goes after the smith's name (or at least the "saku"). Odd that it should appear after the city/province name. Sorry I couldn't have any good news for you.
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Not three tens, rather a variant of the kanji for 30 (卅) 昭和卅四年七月拾八日 Shōwa 34, July 18th.
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Agree with Morita-san above. The words aren't a slogan, they are a commercial brand. Seems to be the Sōkin brand (not sure how to pronounce it as I think it is a Chinese brand). https://www.kaibundo.net/products/detail.php?product_id=1924
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I Could Use Some Assistance With This Text
SteveM replied to Jussi Ekholm's topic in Translation Assistance
"Simple" would be better than monotonous. There is a bit of built-in negativity in the word monotonous that is not intended here, I think. -
Yes, Tsunehiro with an old style "hiro" 常廣
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銘 めい Or, at least that's what I think it is. And the two above it should be 脇指 わきざし, but the top kanji looks nothing like 脇 so I'm slightly uneasy about saying for sure that's what these kanji are. At any rate, these are the kanji I would expect to see in this position on this type of document. This is just ordinary handwriting, as opposed to the pre-printed (and easy-to-read) letters of the certificate. I don't think the person who filled in the form was trying to affect any kind of artistic or calligraphic style. (But my guess is that the person who is in charge of filling in these blanks has some training in calligraphy). If its any kind of style its called gyōsho (行書). Wikipedia translates this into the very-unpoetic and rather pedestrian "semi-cursive script". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-cursive_script
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And the certificate was issued on February 5th of this year (2015).
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「金魚遊図」 Picture of goldfish at play Can't get the artist's name though... And its a weird way to write 金, with the two strokes appearing on the upper half of the kanji instead of the lower half.
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Hello Ford, I did a simple search for 四分一 and 室町 and Google gave me the following: http://is2.sss.fukushima-u.ac.jp/fks-db/txt/20011.002/html/00113.html #429 is attributed (but not signed, therefore it doesn't quite fit your criteria) to Goto Yujo. The clamshell is listed as being shibuichi.
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Hello Xander, There are some uncomplimentary names for lower-quality pieces It seems rather small, so, as Fuuten says, maybe it is for a tanto. With the two hitsu ana on either side, it seems it might also be for a miniature sword, the kind that was posted on here recently. Actually, I was looking at pictures of other tanto tsuba and I came across one that looks similar in style to yours. Same paulownia crest on the rim. Paulownia was the family emblem of Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and it exists today as the seal of the government of Japan. (It's a common motif on sword furniture.) http://s-touken.com/?pid=77497105
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A kind of fue-maki (笛巻), I think. Very nice. Here's another example. http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/touken/htm/0704/169/wakizasi_kosirae.htm
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I hate to say it, but the signature looks suspicious. My guess is that the kanji are supposed to be as follows; The reasons I think this signature is suspect are 1. Amateurish (childlike) execution of the kanji. 2. The problematic squiggle in the center. I can't imagine what this is supposed to be. 3. The third identifiable kanji (the one below the squiggle) is an odd kanji that was not in general use prior to the last century. It was considered a "new" kanji in the middle of the last century, but then fell out of use again after kanji were standardized in 1947. Its a bit of a worry. Edit: I just realized the third kanji (the one after the unidentifiable squiggle) is so obscure that it is not displaying properly on the screen. The difference is the uppermost horizontal line is shorter than the second line in the kanji used on your sword. The actual/official way to write it is with the uppermost horizontal line being longer than the second horizontal line. To say this another way, the top of the kanji should be 士 but instead in your sword it is 土. 4. Together, the identifiable kanji form a plausible Japanese name, but this name is not found in any reference. Any one of these problems in isolation isn't enough to prove anything. There are lots of signatures which look very amateurish to me, but in reality they are just highly stylized. There are a lot of signatures that look very squiggly. There are also a lot of strange kanji in use on signatures. And lastly, there are surely some signatures which don't appear in any reference materials (in other words, very obscure smiths). However, taken all together, those issues leave me thinking that the signature is a big problem. It is almost unthinkable that a smith, even a novice smith, would create a sword and then muck up the signature on it. But, this is just my own amateur musings on the signature, what really matters is the sword itself.
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This is the bit that intrigues me. I think if it was in this condition in 1946, it must have been in similar condition throughout the war. It isn't in military mounts, and so it is clearly not a WW2 sword, and not an heirloom that was retrofitted for WW2 mounts. I agree with some of the posters above who said the tsuka is a write-off. From what I can see in the photos, it has no aesthetic value, and no value as an historical artifact. (Don't fret over this. The tsuka is generally made of materials that degrade over time anyway, and it is completely normal for the tsuka to be replaced in part or in whole throughout the life of the sword). I think you will find the blade and the tsuba will be just as valuable without the tsuka - but if it will not come off without a good deal of force, leave it for now. As you probably know, a proper WW2 gunto tsuka would look like the photos at the sites below http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/eggrider/diary/200602200000/ http://tanosiiseikatu.hippy.jp/katananotuba/?p=932 The tsuba won't tell you anything about the sword or who owned it. They are accessories, as are the other parts of the sword furnishings, and it is quite normal for them to be fitted on different blades through the years. It would be entirely possible for a very old tsuba to get put on a very new blade, and vice-versa. Even the blade itself, unless it comes from a prestigious collection and is accompanied with meticulous documentation, will not likely tell you much about who owned it. So, its fun to imagine who might have owned it, but any speculation as to things like rank or status would be...just speculation. Edit: I should probably add that it is entirely possible that your sword was purchased by a merchant or someone who bought their way into society, so you couldn't even really say with much certainty that a samurai owned it. It could have passed in and out of samurai families. Unfortunately status was quite fluid at the fringes of society, so, again, nice to think about what family owned it and what their history is, but it would be hard to conclude definitively the status of the owner. If you can get the tsuka off, and then take a photo of the entire sword so that we can see the shape, we might have some better idea. But be prepared for the possibility that the sword is of little historical value, as it could very easily be a mass-produced sword.
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Yanagawa is not part of this mei, so it is not mentioned on the paper. However, as you surmised, Yanagawa can be inferred from the Naomitsu signature. Naomitsu was apprenticed at 18 years old to Yanagawa Naomasa (1750). Anybody who has 刀装金工銘収録 (published 1970) you will notice a typo on page 61 that says Naomitsu was apprenticed in 寛永3年, when the actual apprentice year is 寛延3年.
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What Is Happening To Nihonto Message Board?
SteveM replied to Peter Bleed's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
I've just returned to the board after a 6-year absence. I haven't lost interest, but my interest has been pushed to the background by other things in life, as happens. My swords languished in my closet for the past few years. I just took them out recently to make sure they were still in good shape, and really struggled to get them out of the shirasaya so I could clean and re-oil them. I originally joined when the board was run by Rich (going back maybe 10 years) and it is nice to see the very high standard that Brian has maintained all these years. (Just found the videos by Ford Hallam... breathtaking). I think its good to welcome a lot of new enthusiasts to the world of Nihonto. It tends to be a very small, exclusive club, with a very high barrier to entry. Everything conspires against the newbie: the language, the price, the availability, the vast amount of crappy items or forgeries out there... so difficult for beginning students/enthusiasts to get reliable information. So, I say welcome newbies even they come with questions that can be answered by wikipedia-sensei. Very pleased to see the board in great shape and has so many high-level contributors. -
朧銀 Yes, "rogin" or "oborogin" as John above says. Both are correct, apparently, but in my experience I have only heard "rogin". It shows up in the Japanese wikipedia entry under the shibuichi entry. Shibuichi is an alloy of (typically) 1 part silver to 3 parts copper. The linked chart indicates also 1% gold. I think rogin may have more silver than is typically found in shibuichi, but I am out of my depth here. http://www.geocities.jp/atelier_hogaraka/shibuithi.html https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%9B%E5%88%86%E4%B8%80_%28%E5%90%88%E9%87%91%29 Note there is an English entry for shibuichi as well, but it makes no mention of "rogin". And, I'm also wondering if the kashira in the picture used in the English entry wouldn't be greatly improved if that kashira were restored to its original lustre, as shown in another thread by Ford Hallam.
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Did a search for Tashiro Minamoto, and it seems that Kanemoto (兼元) or even Ichi-Kanemoto (一兼元) is another possibility. 田代源一兼元 http://entry.winners-auction.jp/productDetail/42441 ↑ Not a great shot, but if you are web-surfing with a monitor it should be OK.
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Sorry, it was pedantic of me, but I thought it might be useful to make the distinction. Like in another concurrent thread I was completely thrown by what I thought was the kanji 倅 (segare), but it turns out the kanji was actually 焠 (niragu). Slight change in the radical makes all the difference in the word/phrase. And both are obscure enough to be out of daily use, yet it crops up here in the sword world. Anyway, a slight diversion, but hopefully useful or interesting to people who are studying kanji.
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Yes, I think you are right. 焠 (this makes two new kanji I have learned from this thread) My gut feeling is that this is still a problematic mei. The name, the highly unusual kanji... The curious use of 勝永 on one side, and 臣 on the other. It seems a bit much... but I have been surprised before.
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A slight correction. 末関 = Sue-Seki. 未 would be Mi (a different kanji meaning almost or incomplete). Confusingly similar, but the top horizontal stroke on sue (末) is longer than the stroke underneath.
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Hello Daniel, You already have the name of the smith: Fujiwara Yukitoshi (藤原行俊). The kanji 行 could also plausibly be read as Iku (as indicated in your original post), but I favor Yuki as a more likely reading. So, to avoid doubt Fujiwara Yukitoshi, or Fujiwara Ikutoshi Both are possible. The former is more probable, in my estimation. Regardless of the reading, since the smith doesn't appear in any of the obvious reference sites or materials, one has to assume it is a rather obscure smith, and not as famous as the sites linked above are asserting.