Peter Bleed

This ENTIRE thread is a reflection of Japanese social and intellectual patterns. In Japan social, ASSESSMENT of those things is as important as the things. That means that collectors have to follow socially accepted assessment. Becoming an expert involved learning what people THINK, oh,... and also being able to identify and assess the thing. Personal taste is always discounted in Japan. What YOU like is always less significant that what others judge to to be "good." Discussing topics like the top 10 etc is all right. But for us as individuals, we should always aim at getting the BEST possible swords. Practically, there are TWO approaches to collecting, 1) diversity OR 2) quality. We can either try to acquire the RANGE (historical, geographic etc. all the generations, and "schools") that is out there. OR we can acquire pieces that are the best of their types. Few of us can get any of the smiths beings discussed in this thread. But from an economic point of view, getting the BEST of whatever it is we are interested in, is the way to go. Learn your own "top 10" and aim at it... P

Never argue with Ray, but... it looks like SADAMICHI to me. Just sayin'

Matt, I am not sure what there might be to say about you new swords. BUT! I am very glad that you revitalized this thread. It really is very good. I wonder of folks in Tokyo - and at the National Museum are following this discussion. It really is good research! Peter

This is - and has been - a very interesting point of discussion. Thank you JT. If mumei I would never have guessed SA, but it cries for modern Kantei. I think this deserves a trip to Tokyo. Please keep us informed. Peter

Excellent thread, thanks. Are these swords allowed into Japan? Or is the market for them only 'over here?' Peter

Bruce, You do very interesting stuff! Thanks. Peter

I just watched this presentation and was considering discussing it here on the NMB - only to find that Richard had acted with greater dispatch! Thank you Richard. I think something new may be going on in Japanese sword collecting and as "collectors" we might/should watch it. Basically, I think the great generation shift is happening in Nippon-to. The rules, strategies, and personnel that used to operate are becoming obsolete as new tastes, knowledge, and people are appearing. Publication of the Plimpton volume - and serious (!) consideration of non-com swords by a wider collector community really shows that there is a broader interest than there was years ago. These are swords that literally can't go back to Japan! As a "foreign interest" it will be interesting to see how it develops. Likewise, international collecting of pre-modern Japanese blades used to be funded by the Japanese markets. As supplies and knowledge have tended to even out (there are fewer swords, MANY more books, and higher prices), it will be fun to see a world market evolve! Peter

Jon, You ask a good question. I'm interested in old and imported fittings and that is the context where I have heard the term used. It seems only to have been used by foreign collectors, at least I have never see the term used by Japanese authors. It seems to refer to tsuba that do not have hitsu-ana - presumably because they were made before or in a context where such things were not needed. Peter

I just listened to the announcement on this book and I think it is a BIG DEAL. I certainly plan to buy a copy, but I also think it will be an interesting thing to observe. Information on these swords is not completely "new" but it has been less that well organized. I also think that it has not been recognized as worthy by the Japanese players. I book like this can pull the field into focus and into action in a new direction. I think this volume will expand Japanese sword collecting at a time when most of us felt it had peaked. Peter

I was pleased, indeed, to get the recent update from the JSSUS Board. It is good to see that effort is being put into the Society. Japanese Sword collecting is certainly undergoing change. And there is obviously a generation shift happening. But there is still a role for the JSSUS and I think we should all try to help. It appears that the Society will be moving in a digital direction. That seems to be in keeping with where the world is these days. The positive qualities of the NMB demonstrate the power and popularity of on-line venues. There is clearly a great deal of skill and creativity within the collectors’ community. I sincerely hope that the JSSUS leadership will be able to develop an open, interesting, and positive community that draws collectors together. Information on this effort is being overseen by Mark Jones : nixe@bright.net I am sure that Mark is busy at the moment getting ready for the great Chicago show, but I sincerely hope that we will all do what we can to support positive development of the JSSUS. Peter

this view also makes the 5 seem more - ahhh - normal. P

neat, - 1938 date and all.

The fact that they did NOT say "SUKESADA" suggests that this blade is better than a mass produced, kazu-uchi mono. P

I think the paper says, "Den Bizen Osafune Tadamitsu" so it is in the style of a Bizen smith ... like ...Tadamitsu. This seems like a general assessment for a blade that is hardly "Bad" but also hardly remarkable. There were armies that needed arms at that point... Peter

interesting sword! Peter

Once again, I am moved by the richness of Colorado culture.

I agree with your comments, Ron, BUT this guard looks BETTER (IMHO) than a standard Soten - while using and presenting very Soten material - solder applied faces, classic sages motif, and blue/black finish. Can it be that this guard is TOO free and original to fit the "established categories"? Peter

Barry, This is a challenge Seki ju Nawai Kane (??? sen??)

Well, gee, Stephen. At the posted price this seems very interesting, but I assume we have not seen the "last bid." Hokke-sama was a really nice guy. I recall the first time time visited him (I wore my best pants and had him shower me with sparks, but that is another story. At that time there were NO pants my size available in Japan. But, to continue,....In his forge I saw a couple of clealry old blades that were somehow "in process." I didn't understand - - - and it seemed suspicious - - - so I asked and he said - directly and with no hedging , that he retempered Bizen blades. The bit of research you have led us to, Stephen, says that he started his career working in the Bizen style and followed it until he changed hisname and went Yamato. So, tell, Stephen. What do you think this sword will sell for....?

Well, gee. Stephen, another one of these! By that I mean, WOW. Kagefusa was a initial signature of Hokke Saburo Nobufusa. It looks like it was associated with Bizen style work, which is to say it was before Hokke-sama caught Yamato-den. So tell us why you are looking at a toroku-sho for this blade. Peter

Good eye, Bazz, but the flaws do NOT cut straight across the plate. They show up on the opposite face but are well-below where they start out. I think they are just crappy "lamination". If I ever swing another trip to Aus, I'll bring this guard along to show you! (But that will require you to come out west of Hoppers Crossing). Peter

Comments by Grev and Chris invite consideration of the guard on this Chinese weapons. As Grev points out, the guard has a rather large, rectangular slot - what WE would call a nakago-ana, but who knows what it was called in China. Interestingly, this guard shows a number of large, coarse forging flaws. Evidence of laminations are to be seen on Japanese katchuchi/tosho tsuba, but these seem - ahhh - remarkable!. Peter

About a year ago at a local gun show I acquired a “Chinese polearm.” It was a boredom buy since I really have neither interest nor knowledge of Chinese weapons, but I think this is of a type that is commonly called a ‘Dao’. It came with no history and truly can be described as “in relic condition.” It sat quietly in a closet until last week when I began thinking – yet again – about “Namban sword guards” which, of course, includes a great range of Southeast and East Asian, European, and Japanese fittings that were re-purposed, traded, and variously mixed. In thinking about that topic, I decided that the best element on the Dao was its lobed guard that seems comparable to “early” Japanese tsuba. The flow of arms between Japan and China is well known. To study that fitting, I set about disassembling the pole arm. I assumed that experience with Japanese arms would offer a basis for this activity. What I discovered was the importance of “MEKUGI” the bamboo pins that hold Japanese blades together. I also came to the conclusion that Chinese construction seems to have been significantly different – and less refined – than Japanese techniques. The tang of the Dao blade was rather loosely set in an open groove in the short section of pole still present. It looks like the pole had been sawed off just beyond the end of the tang. In addition to 4 forged iron rings, the tang was held in place by two (2) iron pins. Based on experience with Japanese polearms, I assumed that these would be comparable to the bamboo pins used in Japan and that they would be removable. In fact, I discovered that the iron pins were essentially fixed. They seemed to have become solidly “rusted” on to the Dao tang. Even heavy (but careful) pounding would not loosen them. Having committed to the project, I decided to cut the iron pin with a thin blade Dremel tool. The take away message may be that bamboo mekugi allowed Japanese blades to be removable, and therefore survivable. Are they, in fact, the real secret behind Japanese blades? Peter

An interesting bit of adventure here. I think Steve is correct with KANEKIYO" but I got out the Sendai list to make sure that the tag wasn't for one of the Sendai Kanes. It isn't! Peter

I am glad to see that others got this message and found it as - potentially - positive. Truth to tell, I had more questions than answers after getting the letter.They WILL accept international shinsa submissions, BUT I am not sure HOW that will be done. Will the organization oversee the toroku and transport? We will still need an agent, right? It strikes me that bringing a shinsa team TO THE SWORDS (!) would be a much easier way of managing international shinsa. Peter